Rate my timing belt

Alright people, I'm gonna get 'er done next week one way or the other!

Clearly it's overdue anyway , and I got a little nudge today. Got a day off work to go whitewater kayaking with some buddies, and headed for the local river. About 40 miles down the freeway the temperature needle started climbing. Uh oh! Pulled off the freeway, shut off the engine, and took a look. A modest cloud of steam from under the hood, and an audible hissing sound as coolant shot out into the V of the V8. Hard to get a clear look, but it's likely the Coolant Pipe O-ring that seals the connection at the very front end of the coolant pipe (runs through the V from the back by the starter up to the front). I had actually replaced that about 6 months ago when I was dealing with the chewed knock sensor wire, because I thought I could trace a minor coolant leak to it back then. Apparently I must have nicked the O-ring when installing it, or otherwise goofed it up, because it seems to have given out today!

Reservoir was only down about 1/4, but after cooling off I looked in the radiator and it took about 1.5 gallons of coolant. Luckily I carry plenty of coolant - maybe a little gunshy after past coolant leaks lol! Topping radiator was enough for me to limp home with totally normal temp gage, but I was losing coolant the whole way.

Bummer to miss the river while the flows are up, but could have been worse! No tow truck is nice.

If I am correct, replacing the coolant pipe o-ring is part of a timing belt job anyway, and included in the Aisin timing belt kit? So I made an appointment with my most trusted local shop for next week - they say all their mechanics have min 20 years experience, and they don't have any "junior mechanics" right now. They say they've done plenty of timing belts on Tundras, but didn't specify 2uz-fe or first gen tundras. They seemed confident and patient with me, so I'm leaning towards going for it with them. $1000 in labor and supplies, and they'll let me provide my own parts. I could always change my mind and do it myself, but I'm going to order the parts tonight either way.

If I'm taking it to the shop, they'll have their own coolant, FIPG, tools, etc. ANYTHING TO ADD TO THIS SHOPPING LIST OF PARTS I'LL PROVIDE THE SHOP?

• $183 AISIN TKT-021 Engine Timing Belt Kit with Water Pump - Compatible with Select Lexus GS400, GS430, GX470, LS400, LS430, LX470, SC400, SC430 Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, Tundra
  AISIN TKT-021 Engine Timing Belt Kit with Water Pump
• $35 GATES K060908HD FleetRunner Micro-V Serpentine Drive Belt
  GATES K060908HD FleetRunner Heavy Duty Micro-V With A/C (I think this is what members mean by recommending the "Gates HD Green Serp belt"?)
• My thermostat is new 2 years ago, so not replacing.

Obviously, if I do it myself, I'll need to get some coolant and fipg. And will borrow an impact from my friend. But for tonight, I just want to get all the key parts on order in case I opt to take to the shop next week.

Thanks in advance!

 

After reviewing the Timing Belt Master Sticky (https://www.tundras.com/threads/timing-belt-master-thread-sticky.107240/) I added a new Serpentine Belt Tensioner to my shopping list. Hopefully got the right part number here for my 2001 4wd? It's the same one the first poster in the sticky used for their 2005.

 

I wouldn’t have ordered DAYCO, but …

Aisin makes the part IIRC. You can look up the correct part using their part finder: https://aisinaftermarket.com/online

 

OEM from Toyota

$91 16620-0W101 Toyota Genuine V Ribbed Belt Tensioner Assembly

16620-0W101 Tensioner Assembly, V-Ribbed Belt $71.60 1 $71.60

Subtotal: $71.60
Shipping via Economy Shipping: $10.24
Tax: $4.30
Total: $86.14

 

DayCo not so good for the accessory belt tensioner eh? I had a feeling y'all would have suggestions on that. I did order it all last night from Rock Auto since I'm on a bit of a timeline. As best I can tell it seems AISIN makes a tensioner for the timing belt itself, but not for the accessory belt. Good resource for other parts on that link though.

If you guys think it's worth it, I could order a Toyota OEM one today for $72 + shipping from Ourisman, then return the Dayco one to Rock Auto. Good idea?

 

I don’t think I’ve ever replaced my accessory tensioner.

 

Hm, interesting @KNABORES - would you recommend leaving the original?

 

Mine continues to operate normally, as does my clutch fan and bearing. I will not be replacing them at my upcoming timing belt change. If I detect any symptoms of failure between now and then, I will plan to replace.

 

Update: got the truck back from my (somehwat lol) trusted local shop today.

Since the coolant pipe o-ring failed completely last week, it was a good time to do the timing belt job since replacing that o-ring is part of the job. Everything fired up just fine, and at first glance it appears they did a good job with it. Whew!

But two questions:

1. They filled it with a yellowish coolant. I inquired about coolant ahead of time, and they told me on the phone that I could provide coolant if I wish, but they have "Toyota coolant" they would use, so I let them do that. I've been running the Zerex Asian Coolant that's pink for a while now, but turns out the "Toyota coolant" they used is yellowish and is actually a coolant they buy in bulk from "Como Lubricants". They assured me that the yellow meets all Toyota's specs, and that I can top up with pink Zerex with no issues. YEESH. Wish I would have just provided my own pink. You guys think it's OK to top up their yellow with Zerex Pink? Maybe I need to call them up and request the spec sheet - how would you proceed?

2. After my 30 mile test drive, coolant reservoir is down about half an inch and I smell burning coolant. Might be OK though. Possibly it is still burping air from the system which would explain the dropped level. And there was lots of coolant around in the V after my coolant pipe o-ring failed, so perhaps that is still just burning off and explains the smell. So hopefully he successfully seated the new coolant pipe o-ring and didn't put everything back together with a coolant leak somewhere...

Temp gauge looks good. I will drive about 100 miles for work tomorrow and keep an eye on everything. I'll snap a photo of the yellow coolant and get that posted just for kicks..

 

NEVER mix coolant colors. Don't make me pull up @Tundra2's debacle again.

If you had pink in it before, and they added yellow, I guarantee you they didn't flush out the pink fully, probably didn't open the block drains, so you probably have 60/40 mix of pink/yellow. If it were me, I'd dump it all being sure to open both block drains, do a couple of hose-water flushes, completely emptying it, then refill with Toyota pink. What a bunch of numbnuts.

 

Arg! That's aggravating.

They said they performed a full coolant flush, and charged for the coolant and "coolant flush kit" whatever that means. All as part of timing belt service.

In your opinion, is it OK to drive this week? And in your opinion, would it be a legit option to figure out exactly what they used and commit to that, seeing as how they supposedly flushed the whole system?

I'm going to go out and get a pic of the color right now in case that's any use.

Thank you for response as usual

 

Pull the debacle

 

Probably fine to drive this week, but definitely not fine to add more of what they put in. I’d only trust either the Toyota specific or the Zerex pink stuff.

 

You're probably fine to drive for a month or two, honestly. But go back to the shop, keep your mouth shut about the color, show 'em you're low and you been smelling burnt coolant. Give them the chance to add more of whatever they put in it, at no charge. If they don't offer it, a gentle nudge of "I paid for a full coolant flush, and it doesn't appear you guys filled it up..." may suffice.

Re-pasting from another thread:

Like, this exact type of buildup, @Tundra2 had that crap ended up jammed in everything in his engine, like the throttle body bypass, the lines to the oil cooler, clogging everything up to the oil cooler, clogging the internals of the oil cooler, completely clogging cooling hoses, one radiator hose, another radiator hose. This was the consistency of it. His previous owner was a dumbass and didn't understand you can't mix coolants and there's no such thing as "universal" coolant.

 

Thanks for the quick responses everyone! I will read the debacle tonight as soon as I have a second. But can anyone provide the TLDR? Does the problem lie in using Yellow Mystery Coolant? Or is the problem in the mixing of the two colors?

I took photos, and judging by the color it seems they may have done a pretty good job getting my nice trusty Zerex Pink all flushed out and replacing it with all Yellow dog urine looking coolant.

 

The issue is mixing two different types of coolant.

Unless I am mistaken, all types of antifreeze cool the same, but they have different formulations to work better with different engine materials. That’s what I’ve been told.

I agree with you though- it does look like there isn’t any pink in that.

 

It won't show. You could probably mix the two 50/50 and it would still look irridescent yellow.

It's entirely possible they flushed with water in between instead of opening the block drains. The only way @TenderTundie is going to know that, and know the type of coolant the truck has in it, will be going back to the shot to ask:

• Which coolant did you use to I know the lifespan and what to top off with, and can you top it off now because it's low after what you did?
• "What's the flush kit on my bill, and, like, do you guys pump all the old out, then pump in the new?"

The shop will undoubtably try to bullshit @TenderTundie on this topic. "It doesn't matter, they're all the same..." either because they don't actually know, don't understand, or don't want to take time to explain it. I'm no mechanic, but I'm a curious-as-shit person so I geek out on this kinda stuff.

Engine blocks are made out of different stuff, some have aluminum blocks, some have steel blocks, etc. Certain additives can actually help contribute to steel breaking down, others can mix with aluminum and result in precipitate. Likewise, your radiator, which all cars have, is going to be made of different types of metals and certain coolant compositions may not be ideal.

All coolants use different formulations, IAT, OAT, HOAT are the biggies. They all have different additives used in them, like IAT has silicates and phosphates or inorganic acids, OAT uses organic acids. HOAT is a hybrid of IAT/OAT (if I remember right). But, here's the thing: Your manufacturer is going to tell you, "hey, don't use stuff with silicates", or "don't use stuff with phosphates". There are tons of variations, I'm pretty sure you can technicaly get IAT coolants that are phosphate-free if that’s what your manufacturer prefers but … if you care what your manufacturer prefers, you’ll buy what they recommend, right? See @BubbaW's reply below for the list of ingredients Toyota wants you to avoid in your antifreeze.

All coolants have different lifespans. The pink we use in our trucks has a 5yr lifespan (or 60k miles; 10yr/100k on first batch*). The green I'm seeing the shop used typically has a 2yr lifespan. Why is this important? Well, for one, who the fuck wants to change their coolant every 2 years? Two, who wants to use green and change their cooland 2.5x in the same timespan you'd change it once with pink? And you NEED to change it, old coolant can get caustic and do things like erode the thinner sections of head gaskets that often live between the cylinder wall and coolant ports. But beyond that .... if Toyota tells you, "Only use long-life pink in your engine", but the bottle (or your mechanic) says, "Works in all engines", who the fuck are you going to trust on this topic, the people who designed the fucking car, or the coolant company and mechanic trying to take your money?

The different coolants are different historically because the color gave a clue on what's in them. I don't know if that fully holds true todays, but it used to be.

Really, it's a combination of things. I say this in the megathread because it's true. There's no such thing as "universal" coolants. It's marketing bullshit. The coolant may technically be compatible with your engine, as in, it's going to cool. But it may interact poorly with the engine if using specific coolant formulations. It may interact poorly with the metal of your block, radiator, or heads. It may not cool as optimally, or it may contribute to breaking down seals faster because it contains inorganic acids vs. organic.

tl;dr - stick with what the manufacturer tells you. For our V8, it's pink SLLC (long life coolant). And regardless which coolant you choose ALWAYS CHANGE THE COOLANT WITH A FULL FLUSH AT THE CORRECT INTERVAL LISTED ON THE BOTTLE. (This is the other reason @TenderTundie needs to know what they put in it).

 

Dude, flush that shit out. It sucks, but it's gotta be done. Period

 

OK, this is helpful. Thanks for the script to use at the mechanic, haha! That's actually very useful.

Do I want them to have flushed with water in between?

I will call and ask these questions to see what I can learn.

 

If you had pink before, and they changed the color, then yes, it's best practice to flush with water or drain/fill with water in between. Distilled water is preferred, but for flushes, regular hose water is fine in a pinch.

Links pasted above to pics of what @Tundra2 found in his is a good example of what can happen when different color/type of antifreeze interact, or when you use the wrong type (precipitate for interaction with block/radiator metals can also cause jams like that, as can StopLeak products). Which one caused his case is uncertain. But it just so happens the color of stuff he dug out is roughly what I'd expect to see when pink and green collide...

I wouldn't call them. I'd drive up to the shop. Ask, and play dumb if you like, "Hey, I notice my coolant levels are a little low after the work you did, is this normal?"

I'm pretty sure they'll check and maybe top you off. If so, it's a good time to ask "can I take a pic of the bottle so I know what to buy at the store?"

Could be a good time to mention, "I notice the color changed, I'm curious ... how does a flush work, like, do you guys drain the fluid out and flush it with water or what?"

Sometimes the 1,000% best way to get answers out of people is to act like you don't know anything but you are super curious and want to learn. If you don't come off as combative or like you know a lot already, people - especially specialists - are often more willing to share. I'm telling you this after a long career of working with technology/security specialists. 9 times out of 10, people who have a specialty are excited to have opportunities to share with a newbie, as long as they're not overly busy.

 

If we stick with what the manufacturer suggests for our 1st Gens V8's, it varies from 00-03 Long Life(red) to 04-06 Super Long Life(pink).
Of course, SLLC will work just fine in 00-03

00-03....
Coolant type:
TOYOTA Long Life Coolant" or equivalent
With ethylene−glycol type coolant for a
proper corrosion protection of aluminum
components
Do not use alcohol type antifreeze or
plain water alone.

04-06....
Coolant type:
“Toyota Super Long Life Coolant” is
filled in your Toyota vehicle at factory
fill. In order to avoid technical problems,
only use “Toyota Super Long Life Coolant”
or similar high quality ethylene glycol
based non−silicate, non−amine, non−
nitrite, and non−borate coolant with
long−life hybrid organic acid technology.
Do not use plain water alone

 

Thanks for this @Tundra2. Yeah, it sucks, but I guess it's not the end of the world. Just the local shop charging $300 on my Timing Belt bill in exchange for creating another headache/job for me to do... YARG!

I guess this is one more reason for me to continue building my skills and tool collection to do absolutely everything myself and never trust a shop... That's the direction I've been heading anyway, but opted to do the shop for this complicated job, and now I regert it! lol Ever see one of those "No Regerts" tatoos? Anyway...

Looks like I will need to read your entire Crackhead thread one day - interesting stuff! For now, I think I got the main points out of the coolant related debacle. Sounds like you bought Crackhead truck, found that coolant was coagulated and/or filled with chunks of rusty scaly stuff. Infer this was caused by mixing of orange and pink coolant, and/or sitting or making tons of short trips with neglect over year. Did all sorts of crazy shit to flush/remove and replace ruined parts. Wowsers. Missing anything?

Here's what I take from this:

• Sounds like I will ultimately need to flush everything and replace with Zerex Pink.
• But, since your issue seems to have developed over a long/unknown time of sitting, hopefully it is not a huge rush? I would love to be able to drive my truck the next 2 weeks or so, then deal with the flush.
• Folks agree that driving with the supposedly clean/flushed yellow is OK for a couple a weeks? OR does that depend on confirmation of how the mechanics "flushed" it - with water in between or not?

 

A crackhead owned his truck prior. Nobody really knows what that crackhead actually did with it. I believe it was a farm truck prior to that. If only that truck could talk...