Have any of you guys swapped an engine from a 2004 4.7L to a 2005 4.7L V8?

Would I be correct in assuming you're wanting more than what an 04 FSM offers

 

Wow thanks Bubba! That may work now I would like the 2005 FSM as well to compare so I know the differences in both. That way maybe I can adjust the 2004 to work with the 2005.

Which terminals do the VVTi solenoids hookup to? Also which terminals do the ACIS (intake manifold) & air pump hookup to?

 

There's a reason you'll find 1st gens hitting a million miles. If the frame doesn't rust out from under it first.

 

The below google drive link is what we use for 05/06 FSM.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-...WjA/view?resourcekey=0-lv7xW9_5TKqpbWKbBzVP0Q

Do a search for…”Terminals of ECM” ….which should only be a few choices and one will be for 2UZ

 

I owe you Bubba thanks! Do you happen to have the 2004 FSM also for direct comparison? I am going to do a separate thread with photos etc. on the complete restoration of this GX470 when complete. I would love to dyno it to see what the actual output is. I will post details of mpg and performance also. This forum has been GREAT! You made my day! I am trying to get this engine in and complete over the next 3 weeks. I have factory 270 cc injectors and the TRD supercharger came with 330 cc injectors along with two 660 cc 9th and 10th injectors. I thought maybe I should go with 440 to 550 cc injectors? Anyone have a part number for larger injectors that plug right in? My 2004 RS6 4.2 liter Biturbo V8 uses 780 cc injectors.

I bought this old 2004 Lexus GX470 new and was going to sell it cheep to get rid of it but after climbing all over it I realized this thing was built reliable/fantastic and it has no rust so I have made a tough off road Jeep out of it that is quite and fun to drive.

 

2004 is the elusive "between models" FSM which I've seen in paperback for sale on this forum, but never seen a digital copy. There's a bunch of docs linked at the top of this post.

We expect no shortage of pics once done

 

Not to hijack but I still haven’t received any input, I’m planning on picking up a 2000 ac 4x4 this weekend with a bad a340f. The best option I could think of was to upgrade to the a750f from an 05… surely this has been done before but everything I’m finding relates to tacomas.
https://www.tundras.com/threads/a750f-and-other-upgrade-compatibility.123861/

 

While folks do visit the Build Forum here to a certain degree, general discussion threads of your type questions/issue are best served in this 1st Gen Forum.

 

Here is some transmission info : https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a750f-stand-alone-transmission-controller.970742/

I wish someone could explain in detail how the VVTi circuit exactly works. I generally just take things apart and reverse engineer stuff LOL. I was playing with the VVTi activation solenoid and it appears to barely move when 12 volts is applied. It appears to me that it is purely an on/off circuit triggered by multiple sensors telling the ECM to apply 12 volts or not. Once the valve opens oil flows to the vanes which rotate the cam by the oil volume & pressure thus making it somewhat variable regulated by rpm. More rpm more oil pressure & volume hence more advance. Under idle circuit is off and under heavy load or wide open throttle it is turned off also.

I just don't see why we couldn't manage this with a switch basically like an econo mode amd a performance mode? Please tell me where my thinking is screwed up LOL.

 

Stick with the 4 speed it came with. @empty_lord posted about the computer incompatibility above between the older non-VVti motors and the newer ones. The computers that control engine and transmission functions won’t control the wrong engine or trans.

 

Took me a bit for the below to sink in concerning VVTi but once it did, it made sense.

not my words but something I ran across a few years back....

"For 04 and previous, engines had to be programmed to respond well in all rpm ranges. Due to it's relatively small displacement for what this pickup is, and it's "foreign" engineering, these engines did okay in the low end, and did better higher up. 3000rpm is something you'll see referenced frequently as a "sweet spot".

For MY05+, Toyota tried TWO new technologies for the Tundra. One is VVT-i. This allowed an engine to be built more for the low-end, and then VVT-i could compensate at the higher rpms. The second technology is a variable-length intake runner system. Quite simply, there are two paths air can flow... one is designed for effeciency and good fuel economy, and the other is designed for POWA! An electronic valve controls which runner is used... Decisions are based on speed, rpm, and throttle.

Also don't forget about tranny differences between the two trucks! You could have had a 4 speed auto in the 04 and you have a 5 speed auto in the 05. A 5 speed automatic is naturally going to shift more often. If 5th gear is straight O/D, then anything more than a slight acceleration is going to cause a kick down into a lower gear.

As for response on the highway, it's a combination of many things.

#1> discussed above. VVT-i. With Toyota, variable valve timing is based on oil pressure. It's actually a pretty good way of doing it. But when you're cruising on the highway, your oil pressure isn't too high. When you floor it, it grows. This can contribute to the feel of "lag".

#2> discussed above. Variable-length intake runners. When cruising on the highway, it's likely your runners are in "economy" mode. Flooring the pedal is going to cause a switch over to the "POWA!" runners. Takes time for the ECU to recognize the swith, and actually get things performed, then get the air moving down the right pathway into the engine where it's magic can actually be done.

#3> Newcommer. Fly-by-wire. This is also a new "feature" for MY05. When you floor it in an 04, the butterfly valve SLAMS open. When you floor it in an 05, the butterfly makes a nice smooth trip to the open position. In MY04 and previous, you were given direct control of the throttle body. A cable went from the pedal to the throttle body. In MY05, this was changed to an electronic "fly-by-wire" system. Essentially, when you push the pedal, you move a servo.... and that's it! The signal goes to the ECU for processing, which then relays it's commands to another servo mounted at the throttle body to actually open the butterfly valve. Even if you floor it rapidly, the ECU may not want to execute the procedure in that manner. When I first got my Tundra, it didn't do exactly what I wanted exactly WHEN I wanted it done. However, through a combination of it learning my style, and me learning how to manipulate it, I am confident I can beat any MY04 that is simillarly equipped to mine. For example, for me, flooring it doesn't work -- but if I go to 3/4 throttle right-quick, then gradually go to the floor, the engine responds really well."

 

Yes Bubba that kinda backs up what my thoughts are. The 2004 had only one route of long runners on the intake for air. Long runners built more torque due to a ramming effect of air velocity for low rpm and high rpm is better served with higher volume short runners. I am supercharging so this is null & void for me but the VVTi could help with economy & emissions. Since the beginning of gasoline engines people have advanced the cam timing to increase fuel economy and low end response and torque of a daily driver car. But advancing the cam makes it harder for the engine to breath on the big end.

It looks to be fairly easy to make a switch for 12 volt inactivation of VVTi at say 3500 rpm and above along with wide open throttle if a person wanted to run a separate automated VVTi function. In my particular case this would allow me to run VVTi on the 2005 engine leaving my existing 2004 wiring alone & using my 2004 ECM with my MAP-ECU3 for engine controls. This makes the switch over much easier while I get the benefits of the 2005 VVTi and piston oil cooling jets. I would rather not disturb any more than I have too with the GX470 controls like cruise control, dash lights etc. Another advantage of the 2004 ECM is I don't have to deal with the air pump issues. The plus side to the 2005 ECM is it is easier to program but my piggyback ECU helps with this. I will have to put the knock sensors and cam position sensors from the 2004 2uz over to the 2005 2uz VVTi since they are not identical.

I have to hope the oil pickup and pan will transfer correctly from the GX470 2004 to the Tundra 2005 VVTi. Trying to find an extra GX470 upper oil pan, baffle and oil pickup tube at a reasonable price has been next to impossible for me. The lower pan is easy to find.

 

@rancejunge , check your Inbox, top right corner of forum!

Also, this may or may not interest you but @dirtydeeds had a thread that concerned 00-02 but also 03-04 wherby one can use an 05 intake and throttle body in an 04, that gives some improvements.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/variable-runner-intake-for-2000-2002-tundra.119190/

 

LOL Bubba I already read that thread and is interesting. Amazing you pull all this up so fast. You are another great resource!

From all the engines I have messed with I really like this 2uz-fe. It is smaller than the Ford predator (which is a great engine). I also like the belt drive for the cams over the chain drives. It would have been nice to have VVTi on the exhaust valves too but there is less to gain there compared to the intake and it would add wt. and complications.

 

It appears to me Toyota made a lot of different versions of the 2uz-fe. For example my 2004 GX470 has the drive by wire not by cable and it has the a750f 5 speed. I believe these 2004 to 2005 VVTi are doable but you need to take stock of what you have and how it will blend with the 2005 VVTi. Looks like a 2004 to 2005 VVTi is more difficult than what I am doing with my swap. She is starting to look like a real engine now.

 

If I didn’t plan to use the 4 speed already as a rebuild project (spare for my worn 02) I’d be sad haha guess that’s my next search, thank you

 

it can be done. but you'd need an ECU from a early v8 4runner. they had the non VVTI with the 5 speed. wiring would be involved. but i think it is honestly doable

 

Vvti is 'Variable'. The solenoid is not an on/off switch like vtec.

It is pwm (pulse width modulated) and needs the correct input (voltage, frequency, etc). The controller (ECU or fancy piggyback) would need to be fed cam and crank angles, also it may need tps or load. Then a tuning map would need to be made/run on the controller. Not very simple.

 

It takes in temp, afr, load, throttle position, cam timing, etc.

 

Andrew thank you for the PWM information. That is what I needed to understand. This video is the best explanation for me to see how it works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SiX9kM9wgk

That changes my approach on the swap of the wire harness and which ECU to use. It did not realize how a solenoid could be so precisely controlled with pulse width modulation so flow control of oil is varied. So you are right not a simple thing to emulate hence better to use the 2005 VVTi ECU. I read this about VVTi: VVT and lift can reduce fuel consumption by 1 to 6%. Well 6% is worth chasing but 1% .....not sure LOL. You have to think that the VVTi on the 2uz-fe only controls the intake side (which is the most important side) so at best maybe it helps 3%? I noticed in articles testing the 2004 non VVTi to the 2005 VVTi they never showed an increase in mpg that was worth mentioning. Power was slightly better but it should be since the 2004 had 9.6 to 1 CR and the 2005 had 10:1 CR plus the 2005 had the variable plastic intake manifold which I believed helped more than anything with the extra 40hp.

SO Dan, Bubba and Andrew thanks again for all your input as it gives me more clarity on the path I am on.
(Wow I have heard of guys being PWed but who would have thought PWM would get me.....I mean Pulse Width Modulation.....what's the world coming to LOL?)

 

Fwiw pulse width modulation technology was once classified information

 

Well more complications today the electronic throttle valve bolt patterns are different between the 2004 GX470 and the 2005 Tundra VVTi. These are both drive by wire. The TRD supercharger bolt pattern is setup for the 2004 plus 2004 uses larger diameter bolts. The hookup wires are the same 6 pin connector so maybe the signal the 2004 output will work for the 2005? Any guesses out there?

Also I picked up several Pulse width modulators from Amazon and they control the VVTi valves very precisely with turning the knob I can retard or advance the intake cam from 15 thru 59 degrees. The non VVTi cam is set to 36 degrees. Since I am in unchartered territory maybe there is an advantage to my madness LOL? The 2005 VVTi was not setup particularly for supercharging and I am not sure if my 11:1 compression ratio is too high as it is yielding 230 psi cold cranking pressure on the compression tests. By controlling the intake valve timing I can get the effective compression ratio down to 10.2 to 1 with just a twist of a knob. I just really want two settings one to maximize economy at 1800 rpm cruise and the other for max power without detonation.

PWM modulator:

$13 Greartisan 6V-90V 15A PLC DC Motor Speed Controller PWM Variable Speed Regulator Governor Switch CCMHCN with Speed Control Knob

https://www.amazon.com/Greartisan-Controller-Variable-Regulator-Governor/dp/B07H8YMJYZ?crid=379ILXYPPPQ04&keywords=12+volt+controller&qid=1683314946&sr=8-13-spons&th=1