Turbo Charging A Tundra!

TL;DR: Huge shout out and thank you to Jesse @TurboKits.com. Literally the best customer support I have ever experienced. Despite nearly 95* and actual humidity in the 75% area, he essentially grabbed my install by the horns and made it learn who #2 works for. Exhaust side leaks are fixed, intake and vacuum side is tight, system "clicks" together beautifully, and we're ready for 2nd half of the towing season. Thanks again Jesse.

Details: I've been fighting one single connection at the crossover & uppipe. We thought it was the V-band bolt since we've had the system apart a few times at this point for a myriad of reasons, but even a new bolt wasn't holding. With me being laid up for a bit due to my appendectomy, and him knowing I couldn't get under there to assess or tighten anything, Jesse graciously agreed to meet me at his fabricator's shop. It went from me being content with the clamp getting tightened and the lock nut tacked to Jesse deciding to get to investigate and resolve the underlying issue.

While the truck was cooling down, we did a smoke test of the intake and exhaust sides and pressure test of just the intake. Intake and vacuum side was tight and good to go on both tests. Exhaust side showed some surprising results the entire length of the system. After seeing how brilliant that method is, I'll be picking up a smoke tester.

We essentially tore the entire system apart (mostly Jesse, I was more like his secretary, fetching whatever he needed), got it all on their new jig, and the issue was immediately seen and remedied. With me being halfway through my towing season, and with the tune locked in, we'll be using the second half of the season to round out the stage 1/1.5 testing, complete with a revisit to the VT return trip that we ran the "conservative" tune on earlier in June. That is 100% the worst New England has to offer and is the trip that had me in boost for miles at a time. This will give us an apples/apples comparison for logs and it will confirm the issue at the connection is not a heat issue. We don't believe it is, but we'll know for sure at the end of this towing season (Columbus Day). Jesse and his fabricator will have the truck after that trip to really examine everything while also upgrading it to Stage 2.

While having the system apart, we found one of the exhaust manifold gaskets had failed, and with the system being in/out a few times, it's hard to say the root cause, but we'll know more in a few months. Also since we had access to everything on a bench, we chose to wrap the crossover collector with the DEI basalt mat instead of the traditional header wrap. Since it worked well on my last towing trip, and since the pipe was out of the vehicle, we were able to get a full wrap on it. MUCH prefer this over traditional header wrap. Jesse took a photo I'm sure he can share. The install is clean and my transmission temps didn't mind having no torn header wrap under the basalt mat as they stayed in the 190s. We rewrapped the uppipe in traditional header wrap, but I'll be adding the basalt mat over the top of it as my ECT saw a minimal spike to 201* when under light boost while on the way home from the shop. Good news is that the reinstall gave me a tiny bit more clearance so I can get a better install of the mat on that section.

Looking forward to enjoying the system for the rest of the towing season without needing to deal with that one joint and v-band. The truck was quiet again on the drive home and it appears to have regained the torque that comes with 5.29s, especially from a stop. Jesse @TurboKits.com, seriously, I can't thank you enough for getting it squared away so I can get the trailer back from Maine and continue this journey. Super excited for all of your future customers since they won't have to worry about any of this. That jig is fantastic. Not as fantastic as the calzone you guys made me try, but still fantastic.

 

Great hanging out as always, glad we were able to straighten out some of the exhaust leaks. Always appreciate the data you are providing from your extreme duty testing. It's only going to serve to make this a better product for EVERYONE in the future

Looking forward to the next tow coming up shortly and the results of the adjustments. Thanks again!

Here is the wrap that Brian was speaking about:

 

Had a little fun yesterday with the 2008 Tundra on the Mustang DYNO. We made 455 WHP and 529 WTQ at 6.7 PSI (add back a conservative 15% dyno loss and were ~535 HP / 620 TQ). This is the first truck we prototyped the turbo kit on and has been turbo'd for about 30K miles. We originally selected the 7275, which it is still running today, but came to the conclusion later, after a few more builds under our belts, that the 7675 in the kits now, gives 4mm more flow on the compressor wheel without any loss in response.

The 2008 is still a tad rich at the top, low 10s, could probably pull it back to the low 11s, high tens and pick up another 20-30 HP, but it's very conservative. We actually ran out of spring adjustment with the SCG1, as we are still on the 3 PSI base spring and with the duty cycle turned way up, we could only get 6.7 PSI. Which is typical to only see about double the spring rate with boost control. We'll keep playing with the tune and drop in the 5 PSI spring and see what's what.

Update on the 2014; we have installed the Deatschwerks 650cc injectors and are dialing that tune. We'll see how much the Stage 1 is capable of with more fueling and then swap over to the intercooler (stage 2) and push the boost more.

That's all for now. BFlooks has another big tow coming up shortly, so we'll see more data there too.

2008 DYNO From Yesterday *Man, just listen to that turbo!!!!
https://youtu.be/Z7YjsXWvjOs?si=vgbeowUBp2EJoWKb

 

@TurboKits.com Jesse! I need more of that kind of "fun" during my week. lol

That's pretty fun for the 2008! So close to that 8'ish (fine... 9-10) target. Looking forward to seeing where you get the '14 to. Keep up the great work.

 

Nice looking numbers for such low boost. Can't wait to see more footage of these trucks.

 

Minor update:

Returned to ME yesterday. 4.5 hours running fully loaded (no trailer) at "today's 65" and I'm pretty happy.

- 14mpg average.
- Transmission temps stayed below 200*
- ECT stayed mostly below 200* until 50mph hill climbs at 1800rpm where it crept up to 201/203*. A drop to 5th instead of holding 6th dropped it back under 200*
- grabbed the trailer and made a low speed hill climbs to the campground. Held 3rd gear, 25-30mph, never hit positive boost. Only catch was that while the trans temps dropped and held at 192*, the ECT spikes and then held at 213*.

Since the DEI basalt heat mat is working so well at the up pipe and transmission lines (we wrapped both independently), and because the header wrap and newly added 1/2 wrap with the matting on the up pipe (by the coolant hard lines) is working well overall, I'm going to see if I can also wrap the metal hardlines and get the same results as the transmission lines. Will know more next week when I to we the camper home.

I am not terribly worried about a 5-10% swing in ECT temps (I also see it swing down to 190/192* on deceleration sometimes), but if I can have it not get above 200*, regardless of load or boost, that would be a fantastic win for this kit. It only shows itself in high load situations and the needle never moves, so the average user likely won't notice it. I just happen to be logging 100% of the time I'm on these long trips, and always while towing. Temps immediately drop which is why I'm leaning towards a direct/isolated spot for heat transfer, similar to the trans lines and temps.

If any of the supercharger guys happen to have towing logs, I'd love to get a copy to compare. For all I know I'm chasing something that is normal for these motors regardless of the FI solution.

 

I liked the idea to add a filter at the fill cap...













Link https://www.ebay.com/itm/1862375192...rbKhLD6TMO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Follow-up with about 200 miles of northern Maine back roads and logging roads. The added wrap on the coolant hardlines seems to have done the trick.

Baseline is 196 at idle.
Deceleration will see anywhere from 192 to as low as 182 if a long grade and low gear.
Sixth gear below 2k RPM puts me at 201... occasionally showing 203, and that's it. Unlocking the TC or downshifting drops it back to 199.

I can live with these numbers since it peaks and holds at 2-3% warmer than idle. I've read Toyota has a range that may be as high as 225 before the dash needle will move, so me stressing with real-time readings is likely just unintended OCD.

I'll be able to confirm towing results tomorrow.

If anyone happens to know if they are also seeing similar ranges when monitoring ECT, I'd really appreciate the data points.

 

Great data, we are going to update the instructions with the info!

Good luck on your tow back today, 300+ miles again?

 

Back a day early. I'll send you the log data @TurboKits.com

I'm pretty happy overall. The truck ran absolutely fantastic, and most importantly, fluid temps were stable. No more rapid spikes and rapid cool downs.

At 70mph, fully loaded (~8k lbs), at 75-80* ambient and "tropical" humidity, the truck averaged right at mid 7mpg. The trans temps maybe hit 201*, one time, and a drop to 4th gear resolved it within 30 seconds or so. Trans temps stayed in the 190*s for 99% of the journey. ECT situation is likely resolved - while under load (northern Maine is a lot of rolling hills), temps stayed between 199-201* at 0.0PSI and would stay at 203-205* while under load, in fifth gear, in boost (Peak of 3.8PSI) but mostly held in the high 2s and low/mid 3s. Temps would drop back down to the 199-201* within a few seconds of load/boost relief.

So, as far as I'm concerned, until I can get different data sets to tell me I have a fan clutch or water pump issue, all things are normal and the "issue" is resolved. Compared to normal driving, I'm seeing a 1-2% increase in ECT at peak boost for the current setup, for a total of 3-5% over idle ECTs at full boost under heavy load. The "spikes" could have been avoided if I had downshifted to 4th and ran the higher RPM, but I wanted to test and nothing seemed upset, so I kept with it. I'll take that.

I have a trip to the highest peak in MA out in the Berkshires over Labor Day weekend, so I'll more data in the smaller mountains before returning to the White Mountains in mid-September and the repeat of VT trip from earlier this year. The only thing left on the DEI (and knockoff brand) basalt heat mat is to watch it for longevity. Debating fully removing all traditional header wrap in favor of the cleaner (and less painful when wrenching in the engine bay) solution. That may end up being a Stage 2.0 upgrade, or it may be a spring project to see how it handles New England winters.

EDIT: Oh! Almost forgot. I have another 2k OCI coming this week that will be focused on the entire towing trip to Maine (roundtrip), on good tunes, and without any hiccups on 5w30. Results will likely be a month out given the speed at which Blackstone runs them. This will be the last of the 2k mile OCIs (trying to gather apples/apples data points) and I'll be reaching for a return to the 5k OCI its had since I bought it.

 

Welcome back! Sounds like a great return trip. Looking forward to seeing the datalogs

 

I personally think anything under 220 degrees coolant temp doing heavy hauling through very high load situations like long steep hills is nothing of concern. I’d maybe be concerned if it were over 220 just cruising pulling a trailer down the highway. At 16psi the coolant won’t boil over until 265/270. Get the higher pressure 18psi TRD radiator cap and it won’t boil til 270/275 and will help absorb more heat at the higher pressure. I think you're fine!

 

This is the logic I needed to come to terms with. Having had a failed thermostat while towing a few summers ago, and then logging every second of towing since going FI, I've become too focused on some things. I got the TRD cap just to be on the safe side earlier this summer, and after reading about the 25'ish degree "buffer zone" Toyota has built into the dash, it made me feel a lot better and more at peace with things.

For about $10 in matting material to wrap the hard lines, this is a no brainer for the turbo guys, especially if it can be done before everything is installed. If you guys on the SC side of things haven't already looked at it, the DEI mat is pretty thin and might be an option for you all as well.

 

We've been working behind the scenes to bring a set up non-modified, performance specific injectors to market for the Tundra. Here is our first test set. A few tweaks for fitment and we'll have some results soon!

 

Nice to have a plug n' play injector. What flavors, cc, are you planning/hoping to offer?

 

Well guess @snivilous and I don’t need to work on the solution lol

 

Do these need an adapter, the plug looks different? Also please offer something larger than 650cc.

 

Yes, these will be plug n play, we are working on connection options now, as you all know, there is MINIMAL space between the head and runners where the injectors go. We expect to have ~800cc and ~1100cc available. They will be direct install and connect. They will also have full injector flow data sheets.

 

Any Reason the water meth is mandatory? or can this kit be used without it? I like-ish the idea of turbo of the SC options but I hate water meth kits, the whole idea of it.

 

Purely to supplement fueling if you stay on the stock injectors and it aids with cooling, since the Stage 1 isn't intercooled. I am sure a low boost set up, like 3ish PSI would be fine without meth, but you would want to keep an eye on duty cycle and IATs.

 

Anyone demo’d the stage 2 yet?

 

We have the Stage 2 on our 2008, the stage 2 is also on our 2014, but we still have stage 1 connected and are dialing in the DW650cc inj to see how far we can push stage 1, then we'll flip over to the stage 2 and continue. BFlooks technically has the Stage 2, but is still on stock injectors. He will be bumping to larger injectors and more boost after this years towing season.

 

So can we expect a kit with larger injectors similar to the SC kits and tune to avoid the use of water meth? Any chance of working with VFTuner instead of using HPT? I really love the VFTune pack and an option from him would be great. (as much as the guy himself is meh, the product is good)

 

I'll leave the offerings discussion to @TurboKits.com , but I will say that while I was also concerned about water/methanol being required, at just south of 4psi, towing heavy in mountains, I'm not nearly where I thought I was going to be for consumption. My last trip consumed 1/2 gallon over 5'ish hours. I'm averaging less than 1/2 gallon per full fuel tank while towing, and 1 gallon over 5 or so fill-ups even while testing.

We are running conservative on the manual spring as a safety net for towing in the event I ran out of water/methanol. I really appreciate that flexibility and don't envision ever not having that type of setup, regardless of boost levels. I assume I'll be running a 3 or 5lb spring at 8'ish controlled for next towing season.

Current stats: 4-8* over ambient IATs while towing heavy; 2+5% over idle ECTs while towing heavy at 3.8psi peak boost; .5 mpg increase while towing heavy; very reasonable water/methanol consumption at peak of 3.9psi on the 500cc nozzle set progressively from 1.9'ish to 5.2'ish.

Stepping out again, but here to discuss my experiences to date.

 

Always love the data you provide Bri! Thanks for chiming in and yes, 100%, I agree, running water meth isn't all that tricky or dangerous. We have it on both our Tundras and a sportscar. To Us, it's cheap insurance! It keeps the engine clean (especially with direction injection cars and their notorious carbon build up), aids in cooling AITs, which is perfect for the Stage 1 kit or really any FI set up, and bumps the active octane rating. t's like running 100octane, but only in boost when you need it.

I know there is a ALOT of talk about IATs. Keep in mind, the turbo kit is a blow through set up. So the IATs are read AFTER the turbo has compressed the air. With the stage 1 kit, the readings are somewhat irrelevant, since the water meth sprays after the MAF/IAT. So the higher IATs are knocked back to about ambient by the time the charge enters the motor.

Once the intercooler is added, as you can see by BFlooks response above, IATs are pretty much within +/-5* of ambient and once again, that is BEFORE water meth is spraying the charge right before it enters the motor.

I guess what I am saying is don't be afraid of water meth, especially at a low boost setting. It's not going to leave you stranded if it runs out. As in our case, we are using it for a huge safety net, not to tune on the razor's edge of performance.

@MrJimmyPenguin: to answer your question. Yes, 100%, the Stage 2 intercooled kit is already designed and on test trucks. We have a small run of piping to be ready to release for sale as soon as we have the data. Which honestly were not too concerned about. The stage 1 kit has been proven over and over now and runs amazing. The only limitation is fuel. So adding an intercooler, injectors and pump and at our aprox 30HP per PSI, I think we nail our target of 500WHP at the 7-9 PSI range. The stage 2 kit switches from a straight shot coupler, to full piping through a front mount intercooler and then into the motor. It will have the bung and provision to keep the water meth if you are upgrading from the stage 1, but can also be capped off, if you are ordering fresh the full stage 2 and rather run the intercooler only. We will then have a few injector options, like the new ones we are working on, the Deatschwerks 650cc, etc and some pump options.

In regards to tuning. The great part, anyone can tune with anything they want. We don't force people to run our tune, we will also help provide base maps and can also help with remote touch ups or full DYNO tunes. We do know Matt at OrangeVirus very well and we do have some stuff we are working on with him now. Mostly just experimental, not sure if it will actually make it into any sort of public domain, but I am sure we can also provide mapping support on the VF platform as well. They are VERY similar anyway.

Sorry for the long-winded answers... Unfortunately, you can ask BFlooks whenever we get on the phone, it's a 30min chat session, as I can be quite verbose... LOL

Let us know if you have any further questions. Thanks!

 

@MrJimmyPenguin Not to pick a fight or anything, but you mentioned you hated the idea of water meth, can you explain why?
I also thought that might be an overkill in the first place, and of course due to my unexpected medical issues I dropped out of testing kit for this.
It did occur to me questioning the need for water meth but as you read through all 40+ pages of discussions and all that, I think water meth is fine in application, other than just the name, which can be, ugh, troublesome...

But just curious to hear why you hated it?

 

So big weekend at TurboKits.com. Our 2014 hit 140K, about 15K of it with the turbo installed. And, And, we found our Unicorn, a 2016 TRD Pro, White, Double cab, one owner, 130k, fully dealer maintained, unmodified, to add to our fleet!

 

Nice find and good looking rig! Love the tow mirrors

 

I put gas in truck, I don't want to put anything else. Bed is already too small and filled consistently, My goals include adding 100Gal of fuel capacity. One of the selling features for the tundra to me included the huge factory windshield wiper fluid container under the hood... for real... I have a race car I've built and a few LS swaps I've daily driven, really I don't even like the idea of a turbo given the low boost/manifold air density that max out the transmissions strength in these trucks I'd almost rather have a TorqStorm Supercharger bolted to the engine, but really I'm just happy to see development. The cost of a boost power adder to these trucks is insane compared to the most basic of chev kits so more players the better as cost should come down. Also just personal choice, water meth I don't like, put the right injector for the goal and be done, its a daily driver.

 

Good to hear, its just more so I'd like to see a "tune pack" from VF for your kit on the truck, as truthfully I think only he really understands his software to make a good enough tune for it, other wise yeah ezpz I have everything unlocked on HPT so no issue to plug in and play, plus with OpenDelphi supporting the Toyotas it'll be free and barely a $20 cable to do it, so its just a matter of tuning software choice.