Tundra and Cummins?

that picture should come with a change of shorts

 

Exactly Chris, the eye opener is, it’s more like the diesel owns you.

 

The emissions on the newer diesels are actually far more reliable than the early 2007 era systems. Yes, there still is complexity involved but Toyota actually has experience dealing with those issues: their newer LC 200's and Hilux's sold overseas now have EGR and DPF's. Arguably, the addition of SCR (which is the route that North American diesel makers have gone) greatly enhances the reliability and efficiency of those 2 other emissions systems.

If Toyota is holding back on introducing a diesel to the North American market, it's not because they're incapable of ironing out the emissions issues.

The added maintenance costs aren't really a huge leap for diesel's. You shouldn't have to be replacing injectors all that often if you're fuel quality is good and you follow the recommended fuel filter maintenance schedule; they're not like spark plugs. The exhaust systems, while not without their faults, are intended to function for at least 200k-300k miles before they need replacement…and it’s really just the DPF that is a true wear item within the exhaust system.

The added annual maintenance costs for diesel mostly come from SCR, more oil to change, and fuel filters....you're probably looking at $100-$180 (depending on the engine and driving conditions) in added annual maintenance over a comparable gasoline engine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "beat." Yeah, the gasoline is faster, even up a hill. But that's not really the point behind a diesel. That 5.0 Cummins is amazing for 2 reasons:

1) it's a brand new design, DOHC 5.0l with aluminum head and CGI block (lighter than previous designs but still strong).

2) It’s an engine that fills the gap between a true 1 ton engine (like a 6.7L PS or 6.7L Cummins) and a light-duty diesel (like the 3.0l ecodiesel).

The failure, so to speak, with the 5.0l Cummins sales has less to do with the engine itself and more to do with the platform it was put in. The Nissan XD is a platform with all the size, weight and efficiency disadvantages of a 3/4 ton, but none of the advantages.

If Toyota were to go the diesel route with the Tundra, the 5.0l Cummins could work for a Tundra HD version. But for a regular Tundra, they’d likely have to go with a lighter engine for weight and efficiency reasons.

Honestly, I'm hoping Toyota at least provides the option of a diesel; let the individual consumers decide for themselves whether or not the diesel is worth their money. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

I hope Toyota doesn't go with that 5.0 V8 Cummins engine, the thing is a dog. Read all about how many times the Car & Driver staff got stranded and how much time a Nissan Titan sat in the shop with that engine.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-nissan-titan-xd-long-term-test-review

 

I will bring the gift of satire to the conversation... I live in the rural midwest of Ohio. It is heavy agriculture. Kids want a diesel more than a Camaro SS or corvette. Hillbillies live and breathe the big three. It is like a religious cult. Nissan has a decent product, but as others stated it has been named a 5/8 ton around these parts. Toyota does what it does and happens to be damn good at it. I think now that Ford has announced that it is not going to build compact cars anymore, you will see Toyota R&D plow into this sector as they already dominate it along with Honda. Tundras are one model and honestly it was a leap of faith that a compact car company with a small truck division entered into the full size market. In my opinion as well as most on this forum, they build the finest 1/2 ton pick-up in the business. Hillbillies that will spend their grandparents inheritance on a truck are not loyal to the Toyotas. Most of us bought our trucks as either an up-size from a taco or due to the royal ass pounding from chevy and ford. Finally the vast majority of the pretty diesels that run my local streets are never hooked to anything and are more focused on large smokestacks and black clouds than they are making a living with a work truck. Ironically one of the major contractors in my area got rid of their ford diesels for tundras and have had practically 0 mechanical issues since. FYI they beat the living piss out of these tundras and they don't break. The market share is very small and after seeing the struggle that Nissan has had in the market I don't expect to ever see a HD diesel tundra.

 

Same thing around here. Big smoke stacks and black cloulds. We also have the whistling tail pipes, too. Explains the boxes of diesel fix in all the stores front windows.

 

The company that I worked for in PA 2008-2013 had Dodge and Chevy diesels. When I left for NC in 2013 all of the trucks were approaching 400k. Those were all really hard miles and the majority of the miles were towing large loads. All of our trucks had issues, injectors, turbos, trans, but they were assumed to be the right tool for the job. Shortly after I moved my buddy that still worked there sent me a picture of 3 new F350's 6.2L Gas trucks. Currently they have an all gas fleet.

 

Here in Arizona you have to register a 3/4 ton and up with emissions test every year. With a half ton the first 5 years there is no emissions test past the 5 year mark you can register for two years with just one emissions test. And completely agree being able to tow safely is a great feeling.

 

Yep, and there are examples of Ford gassers spilling all their fluids and shutting down on the highway during TFL tests.

OEM's make mistakes, some more than others. I don't hear of many (any really) 5.0 Cummins Titan's getting stranded in my neck of the woods, thought that's not to say it can't happen.

Turbo's and injectors really don't fail that often on the diesels I've seen and driven. Follow OEM maintenance recommendations, use the exhaust brake every now and then, and those things will last a good bit of time. When those components do fail, yes I agree the costs will be high, but those items shouldn't have to be addressed all that often. If you're replacing them at shorter intervals, then maybe there is a problem with that particular OEM. I see plenty of 6.7L Cummins going 200k and well beyond with just basic maintenance.

And don't forget, with cylinder de-activation, turbo charging, HCCI and EGR technogogies being integrated into gasoline engines, repair costs will soon increase for those engines as well.

Tires can be an issue, I agree. The key is to get good quality tires (whether they're A/T's or highway oriented), do your rotations, and don't drive like an a$$hole. With the torque these newer diesels are putting out, it's real easy to wear out tires if you've got a heavy foot.

I really don't care if a gasoline can go up a hill faster than a diesel. The diesel might be somewhat slower, but it will be working more efficiently and the powertrain will be less strained than a comparable gasoline engine. The low-end torque means that you're less reliant on gear shifts and high-RPM accelerations to move a comparable load.

That's the point behind owning a diesel IMHO, but we'll have different opinions on that I suppose.

I do agree that Nissan didn't do a great job of building a platform to support that engine. It's big, heavy and cumbersome. I'm sure the diesel works well in that platform, but me personally, I'd rather get a 3/4 or 1 ton if i'm going to spend that kind of money and own a vehicle that big. I'd rather have a solid front axle on that size of vehicle too; IFS tend to become a limiting factor for vehicles of that size.

That said, there are some owners out there who like the Titan XD, especially for towing. It's just not my cup of tea.

 

Personally don't think Toyota will be able to compete in the HD market in the U.S. The mainstay already have such a loyal following, and Japs aren't known for HD equipment. However, I do think it would be great to have more light duty and SUVs with diesels, and Toyo wouldn't be new in that space. However, the popularity of diesel in the US is probably not good for them. I'm highly jealous of my brother's BMW 335D making 500tq and doing 42mpg....lol - 140k and haven't been to the dealer for anything.

 

My buddy runs a highway construction company. They literally bled blue ford blood for 30 years. Commercial trucks don't have a warranty. After the last round of ford transmissions and diesel headaches they went to gas 6.4 rams. (two years ago) They still have had a few minor issues but no major breakdowns. The other company that went tundra are on their third set and have never lost a trans or been inside an engine. The Rams are a little light on power for a one ton but they get the job done. With all the emissions, cost of fuel, cost of DEF, Filters, and repairs a diesel is a hard thing to buy. If you tow everyday for a living then I guess its needed. I wish Hino would build a light version of their commercial trucks with a pick up bed and a crew cab. Even the big trucks are suffering from the changes. Even my buddy who is a die hard cummins ram guy who has owned 6 of them just bought a 6.4 gasser and threw in the towel. The tundra is still the truck for me.

 

My buddy's gas BMW 535 just puked the water pump at 72k miles. The repair bill was $1650.00. He drove my taco while his bow was in the shop... Now he wants to buy it. He was sad when I told him its not for sale. The BMW is up for sale.lol

 

This! I always find it funny that everyone wants to "roll coal." They have no idea what they are doing to their engine. Look at Banks for example. Their whole philosophy is clean performance. Watch their land speed record run. You don't see any black smoke.

 

I doubt it will ever happen. If it ever did I doubt even more that Toyota would but someone else's motor in it. I remember reading that the truck pictured above had a Hino diesel in it.