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Tundra and Cummins?

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by Thee_Oddball, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Aug 21, 2018 at 5:52 PM
    #1
    Thee_Oddball

    Thee_Oddball [OP] New Member

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    I was just thinking about this the other day, Will Toyota ever create there own version of a RAM 3500 complete with Cummins turbo diesel? or their own version of said motor.The picture does provide some nice food for thought. original link

     
  2. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:00 PM
    #2
    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    It’s been talked about quite a bit on here. But I don’t think they’d ever do a full HD diesel personally. There would be just too much R&D for them to put their name on it and want to stand behind it compared to the actual sales that would be there. Just my thoughts on it. Do I think it would be bad ass? No doubt about! I see a diesel of some type possibly someday or more likely a turbo 6.
     
  3. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:15 PM
    #3
    Patriot

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    I don’t think it will ever happen.
     
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  4. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:25 PM
    #4
    GiantsFanDan

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  5. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:29 PM
    #5
    GiantsFanDan

    GiantsFanDan New Member

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    And if they put a half-ton diesel together it's probably going to be some type of variant of the 4.5 twin turbo that the LC uses in other countries.
     
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  6. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:40 PM
    #6
    Thee_Oddball

    Thee_Oddball [OP] New Member

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  7. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:43 PM
    #7
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    In the current market, I wouldn’t buy any of them (GM, Ford, Ram, Nissan) and including Toyota if they were ever this stupid to go in this direction.

    For the money, you get some real payload and towing capacity with the big three. Take your pick.
     
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  8. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:44 PM
    #8
    Aron9000

    Aron9000 New Member

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    I'm sure Toyota has studied this, with all the emissions regulations they'd have to meet, it probably would not be profitable for them to sell a diesel truck in the USA.

    Also you need to realize that all these emissions era consumer grade truck diesel trucks(Ford, GM, Dodge, take your pick) have been plauged by reliability problems related to the emissions equipment. And the fixes aren't cheap, like $5000 to replace your cat converter on a newer diesel truck. If you don't have to pass emissions, a lot of guys take all that stuff off and have their truck retuned to run without it.

    And its not just meeting the emissions regulations, its making all that stuff last and not cost the owner a ton of $$$$ down the road. That's the Toyota philosophy, which is going to cost Toyota a lot more $$$$ than the big 3, who don't really give a crap, as long as the customer doesn't bring it in under warranty.
     
  9. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:47 PM
    #9
    DalTee

    DalTee New Member

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    Why?
     
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  10. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:52 PM
    #10
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Great. Toyota 3500 with that motor would now be competing with 2004 Dodge 3500’s. Those wouldn’t even leave the lots.
     
  11. Aug 21, 2018 at 6:53 PM
    #11
    GWalker

    GWalker New Member

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    Financially, it will be a loss for Toyota. Sales will never support the R&D cost, diesel fuel costs more, you pay a premium for the motor and the longevity of the truck will be no different than the gas versions. Just do not see lots of buyers for that half ton market.
     
  12. Aug 21, 2018 at 7:10 PM
    #12
    bigblue14

    bigblue14 New Member

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    I cant see it happening. That's a completely new platform. The tundra is a nice truck but it's not the same as a 25/3500 truck.
     
  13. Aug 21, 2018 at 8:01 PM
    #13
    geno0506

    geno0506 New Member

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    Exactly what my service manager said today, NO Diesel they would have to change it up drastically! He said it would work if they put one in a Tacoma!
     
  14. Aug 21, 2018 at 8:26 PM
    #14
    csuviper

    csuviper Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep been talked about a lot here and it turns into arguments.

    Toyota was looking at the same Cummins that Nisan has around the exact same time. They chose not to move forward.
     
  15. Aug 21, 2018 at 8:51 PM
    #15
    Devcom

    Devcom Miles per Gallon? More like Smiles per Gallon!!

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    I think I remember reading somewhere that Toyota was going to go the HD route but then the 08 depression hit and they decided to scrap it. I honestly would not know if there would be enough demand for it at the moment.
     
  16. Aug 21, 2018 at 9:28 PM
    #16
    blue16

    blue16 New Member

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    Toyota needs to build a heavy half ton something that would actually have realistic pay loads for there tow rating. Let the big three have the 3/4 ton and up market
     
  17. Aug 21, 2018 at 9:34 PM
    #17
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    The costs of diesel ownership can be a real eye opener, and if used as a daily driver, that cost goes up significantly.

    A complete exhaust for my Duramax truck is around 3600.00

    Injectors are 300.00 a pop.
    Amen. Look how that turned out...

    The gasoline version of the same truck beat the Cummins up the Ike Gauntlet. Hell, I think the v6 diesels even did better.

    I’m not sure why so many people have hard-ons for Cummins motors. That’s all I did with my two was work on them and throw money at it. These were pre-emission trucks as well.
     
  18. Aug 21, 2018 at 9:40 PM
    #18
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    The only reason that diesel dually truck was built...to see if they could. It had no aspirations to ever make production.

    B11C519E-D215-4C8F-9714-4D3AA5787570.jpg

    The Tundra has pretty much flatlined at around 116k trucks manufactured per year. The demand for a HD truck just isn’t there for them.

    Since Toyota is the largest producing auto manufacturer in the world, they know what markets are profitable and what would be a ball slapper.
     
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  19. Aug 21, 2018 at 9:55 PM
    #19
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Agreed to some point. However, if you need 3/4 ton payload, why not just buy a 3/4 ton truck?

    My buddies fully loaded 11’ F250 has a payload rating of 1984 lbs. it really isn’t that much more than a half ton truck, depending on options. It’s the Diesel engine that kills the payload ratings. So when his truck is loaded like this, he is at 14k lbs, or 816 lbs overweight, plus or minus 150 lbs...most likely plus. His tire ratings are what makes this safe in my eyes. Each one of his tires has a load index rating of 126, or 3600+ lbs each.
    AA7DF8B0-6532-45BF-8339-14C3EFF8521E.jpg
    My work truck is the same as my friends truck mentioned above, but with the 6.2L motor. It’s payload is around 3500 lbs.

    This is why I tell people to just skip the 3/4 ton and go 1 ton(depending on your state laws). Way higher payload and better towing numbers (5th wheel and GN). Hell, my GMC has a load capacity of 3800 lbs with all my options (pretty loaded). Some of the lower trim levels where over 4200 lbs. I also don’t have to worry about TPMS ever again since vehicles with a GCWR of 11000 lbs or more don’t require them. You don’t know how happy this made me to hear this.
     
  20. Aug 22, 2018 at 4:13 AM
    #20
    gdiep

    gdiep I like cookies

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    Factor in one more thing...diesel prices are about to increase due to some regulations requiring further reduction of sulfur.
    So if you really need a diesel, you’ll be paying more for the ownership experience.
     
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  21. Aug 22, 2018 at 4:45 AM
    #21
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Can anyone explain to me why every big box and auto parts store has boxes and boxes of diesel fuel additive lined up at their front windows?
     
  22. Aug 22, 2018 at 5:02 AM
    #22
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Tier 5 emissions is post combustion, and is aimed at smaller diesels that don’t have DPF/SCR systems. All current diesels on the road meet this criteria.
     
  23. Aug 22, 2018 at 5:04 AM
    #23
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Winter is right around the corner. However, if you run #1 diesel, you won’t gel up when it’s cold outside.
     
  24. Aug 22, 2018 at 5:04 AM
    #24
    Grumpy Uncle

    Grumpy Uncle Pushing string down the hall SSEM #10

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    images (1).jpg
     
  25. Aug 22, 2018 at 5:39 AM
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    OBXTundra

    OBXTundra Member

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    The power plant of the Tundra is awesome. It has more HP and TQ than the gas engine offered in the Chevy 3500 (6.0) and 4Hp shy of the F350 (6.2). The Dodge 6.4 Hemi is the real standout at something like 430Hp?

    What I'm suggesting is that the 5.7 is almost directly inline with other gas engine offerings that other manufacturers put in their 1 ton trucks. The Tundra would benefit from frame, transmission, axle, and suspension upgrades to increase payload capacity. The 5.7 could use a refresh and even a little more displacement, but I'm not inclined to say going the diesel route makes any sense for Toyota. I actually hope that Toyota does not completely can the 5.7 platform when they redesign the Tundra.

    The Tundra is completely capable power wise, even when stacked up to the 1 ton gas trucks. It just needs an HD version to handle payload duties.
     
  26. Aug 22, 2018 at 5:47 AM
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    gdiep

    gdiep I like cookies

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    The IMO (International Maritime Organization) has new regulations that will come into effect in 2020. It requires marine vessels to use low sulfur diesel, which is not required of them today. It is estimated that 5% of the global oil demand is used by the shipping industry. The diesel we use is further refined to reduce sulfur emissions. The shipping industry uses this "leftover" diesel from the process. When refineries are forced to further refine this "leftover" diesel to meet the IMO regulations, costs will increase. These costs will be absorbed in the overall cost of diesel, meaning our diesel will cost more as well. Please note that I use the term "leftover" very loosely here, refining oil into gas, diesel and other components is pretty complex and I don't pretend to be an expert.
     
  27. Aug 22, 2018 at 7:22 AM
    #27
    Thee_Oddball

    Thee_Oddball [OP] New Member

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    Someone here suggested this or similar truck for a car hauling business, which I will probably go with for a team hauling business.

    I MAY (i'll probably rent at this point) in the future need a heavy duty truck for hauling construction equipment and materials for a house we are building, especially now that I have discovered CLT (CROSS LAMENTED TIMBER)

    that was the biggest hino I could find.

    I asked my Mechanic which of the big 3 was the best, he said cummins.


    One of the reasons I was looking at diesels is that my mechanic told me even though I will pay 10,000 more for the motor alone I would get over 500,000+ miles out of it, of course by the time that happens I will have gone through a couple of transmissions and rebuilt EVERYTHING else i'm guessing.
     
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  28. Aug 22, 2018 at 7:27 AM
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    blue16

    blue16 New Member

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    3/4 ton truck cost more to insure and register every year. My last truck was 3/4 ton didn't really need it but it had great stopping power for towing through the mountains. I do not tow heavy loads but it would be nice to put a camper like the four wheel camper and be able to tow the boat at the same time with out being over weight on the pay load.
     
  29. Aug 22, 2018 at 7:30 AM
    #29
    bigblue14

    bigblue14 New Member

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    I had a 1996 Dodge with the Cummins in it. It had the Bosch P7100 pump. I sold it in 2014 with 286k on it. The motor has never so much as had the valves out of adjustment. It's a beast of engine and will handle a lot of modifications. Their basic block design remained unchanged over numerous years. Now the cab and the front core support was getting ready to have rust issues and I needed more space for the family. There was something very satisfying about that truck hammer down in 4th gear. Overall it was a good truck.
     
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  30. Aug 22, 2018 at 11:16 AM
    #30
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    You actually bring up a good point and agree this will drive up fuel prices.

    Locomotives also fall into this regulation. This is why Mr Buffett is trying so hard to swap his fleet to CNG.

    Good thinking!
     

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