The bad gas saga

Most dealers won’t do that just because of warranty reasons should the helicoil fail

 

I'm really interested in hearing what sheets dose about it. I got some bad gas back 96 in a new explorer. We had the dealer deal with it they drained the gas changed the plugs and ended up replacing the catalytic converter. After that it never ran right it always had a really rough idle. We bought the gas at a Exxon company owned store in San Antonio and Exxon refused to make it right. I heard later it affected 15 to 20 vehicles and Exxon didn't do a thing to help anyone out.

 

Why does it seem manufacturers give so little thought to ease of maintenance or repair these days? I get it's mostly about building the vehicle as cheaply as possible but don't they lose a considerable amount making something like removing a head difficult?

 

You’d be amazed how easy they come apart. You can have a Camry 2.4l out within a couple hours if your in the rhythm

 

Thanks to everyone for your input. I hope I don't have to revisit dealing with these spark plugs any time soon. The car is home and running fine.

Sheetz did reach out to me yesterday and left a call back number. I have called that number at least 6 times and it goes directly to voice mail. I have left 3 messages including one this morning. I have yet to talk to their claims person so I don't even know if I have a chance of getting restitution.

 

KEEP BEING PERSISTANT, IF YOU DON'T GET ANY SATISFACTION, GO UP THE CHAIN...

 

The title of this thread is so misleading ...

 

@oldscout1001 if they don't respond you can file a complaint through the Better Business Bureu and you'll be surprised how fast they respond then.

I was never a believer until a certain phone company refused to unlock a phone I paid for. I hit BBB and the phone company had people calling me the next day.

 

Sounds to me like they are trying to contact him but just playing a bit of phone tag.

 

A few things I want to add to the discussion:
1. I would ask for a sample of the gasoline (in hindsight) and keep for show & tell to Sheetz. If they have a problem with the tank or the distribution, they should know about it. Best of luck on your claim.
2. Spark plugs almost always come out hard on aluminum heads. The key is to do it after the engine has cold soaked. It can be gut-wrenching at times, but I've never had a spark plug pull the threads with it unless it's a Ford.
3. IF the spark plugs were to damage the threads in the head, this can very easily be remedied with a thread-insert. NOT A HELI-COIL. Thread inserts are solid and much stronger. I have put in quite a number of thread inserts into aluminum heads where spark plugs were not torqued properly, and blew out of the engine. The key is to make an attachment small enough to vacuum out the cylinder once you are done drilling and inspect with boroscope to make sure no metal shavings are left behind. This can all be done without removing the head OR the engine.
4. NEVER, and I mean NEVER coat spark plug threads with ANY compound. If the threads are tight, they should be chased in the head to clean them up. This is a NATEF accepted practice and NGK also warns against "lubricating" spark plugs:

"NGK spark plugs feature trivalent plating. This silver or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without lubrication or anti-seize.

Anti-seize can act as a lubricant, altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage and/or metal shell stretch. Thread breakage can sometimes involve removing the cylinder head for repair. Metal shell stretch changes the heat rating of the spark plug and can result in serious engine damage caused by pre-ignition. Do not use anti-seize or lubricant on NGK spark plugs. It is completely unnecessary and can be detrimental.

Torque is crucial in the ability of the plug to dissipate heat and perform properly. Always follow the manufacturer recommended torque specification. An under-torqued spark plug can lead to excessive vibration and improper heat dissipation, causing spark plug and/or engine damage. Over torquing may cause any of the following: thread damage/breakage, compromised internal seals leading to gas leakage, metal shell stretch leading to poor heat dissipation and pre-ignition."

Hope this helps.

 

All of these are very good points!

As far a torque in relation to heat dissipation, can you elaborate on that statement? The surface contact area delta between 10ft-lbs and 20ft-lbs should be very minimal?
My understanding was that the intent of torque was to ensure seal off to heads and stop any blow-by gasses.
Or are you referring to the heat that would transfer to the plug if combustion gases were flowing by from a N/G sealing plug?

 

So that statement is from NGK's website, not my own words.

As far as the difference between 10 and 20 ft lbs I can't imagine much ill effect. I think we are talking about the difference between 5 and 35 ft lbs in order to have those ill-effects.

 

I use never seize on all my plugs too. Never had an issue. I got a nice big can of never seize from one of the refineries I worked in, they said the cost is $300 a can and its "nuclear grade", and we used it on the fin fan decks for the cooling towers. Needless to say I made really good friends with the tool room guy and he gifted me a can

 

Fin fans and cooling towers are different things...

 

That brings back some memories. A chemical plant unit I was assigned to in my youth had a compressor house with 23 Cooper-Bessemer gas engine reciprocating compressors. Our machinist mechanics used a lot of Fel-Pro C5-A copper "nuclear grade" anti-seize on those old cast iron dinosaurs. You can still buy C5-A under the Loc-tite brand, but for spark plugs in aluminum heads, aluminum anti-seize should be used to avoid galvanic corrosion between aluminum and copper.

In research to remember the anti-seize we used, I ran across this interesting video by a mechanical geek with time on his hands. After about 07:50, it gets pretty ridiculous, but for those interested in the anti-corrosion properties of Fluid-Film, it may have some interest :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj-kmIbSQvk

 

My question is why are you taking a 12 year old, higher mileage Camry to the dealership in the first place, rather than a reputable Indy? I place far more trust in the abilities of an independant mechanic than those at dealerships. No offense to those who work at Toyota as mechanics.

 

Seriously, the only reason to ever go to a dealership for service is if it's on a newer car that is covered only at the dealership haha

 

Tru dat!

 

+1 to drowhawk. Came here to say exactly this. All this talk about you SHOULD use anti-seize on spark plugs is dangerously outdated.

Not that spark plugs were ever so technologically advanced, but coating of the threads is a real thing.

In terms of fuel, I'd say stop using that gas station at least. I've been keeping receipts for years just in case this to type of thing were to happen.

 

Hmm on top of some cooling towers are fin fan decks, pretty much large radiators, at least that's what we call them, and they have about 17 million billion plugs you gotta change out , but most fin fans decks ive worked on aren't on cooling towers. I've only worked on 2 cooling towers and it was to replace the plugs and tap the holes

 

I give that video a watch! Love PF. I believe the anti seize i have is aluminum, maybe nickel? When I get home in a couple weeks I'll post a picture of the can

 

I've never used it since late 70's, mostly cuz I was even more dumb back then and didn't 'know' i was supposed to. Still don't and nothing sticks. Luck all.

 

Legit question. Bottom line when I was sitting on the side of a busy road, at night in the rain without a regular Indy shop that had worked on the car before, I had to decide where to tell the tow truck to take the car. I chose the dealership, at least they know me there and the car. I've dealt with some great independent shops and some real questionable ones but don't currently have one whose familiar with my Camry.

I do have the receipt/paperwork I will upload in the next day or so when I get time.

BTW I consider 100,000 miles on a 13 yo Camry low miles

 

Thanks to everyone for your advice and insight. I really appreciate it

Here is the end of the saga:
State Farm agreed to pay my total claim and I already have my payment. Sheetz seems to have a policy of phone tag, they didn't want my receipt for the repairs, they wanted to speak to the dealer instead. Last I heard they were trying to contact the service department rep and they were leaving voice mails for each other. Once I told sheetz I had filed a claim, they said they would only speak to the insurance company. So I have no idea what their defense is going to be. My state farm claims rep told me she would let me know if they get anything from Sheetz, I doubt they will or that I will hear back from either of them.

Here are excerpts from my repair bill. Fully covered by state farm, no deductible and does not increase my future premiums. I do believe this was easier coming from the dealer rather than an independent regardless of how reputable.

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