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The bad gas saga

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by oldscout1001, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. Oct 21, 2020 at 6:11 PM
    #1
    oldscout1001

    oldscout1001 [OP] New Member

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    Monday (10/8) my teenage son filled my Camry at the local sheetz. He got went back out for something, got about a mile and the car died. No power, wouldn't run more than 30 seconds. I had it towed to the local Toyota dealer and they said it had bad gas in it. It smelled weird and was definitely bad. They had to drain the full take flush the fuel lines and change the spark plugs. Total bill $1,700. We use this Sheetz all the time my first thought was that he put flex fuel in by mistake, flex fuel would cause the problems. In fact the dealer stated they'd recently had another customer who knew she put the wrong gas in and her car acted exactly the same way.

    So tonight I took my Tundra up to the same station to fill it up (which we all know is a common occurrence) and asked if they could reproduce a receipt for my son's transaction. They found it found "87 Unleaded". I have contacted Sheetz and started the process of filing a claim. I'll let you know how it goes.

    On another note, I did find out something disturbing about my Camry. Apparently a previous owner used Never Seize on the spark plugs. Causing 4 of them to bind when the tech was trying to take them out to replace them. So he only replaced 2 plugs. He said if forced them out, he was afraid they would strip the sockets which would essentially ruin the engine. Cost to replace the engine including labor? just under 5K.

    My Camry is an 08 SE with 102,000 miles. It had 90,000 when I bought it just over a year ago. It has a clean car fax but multiple owners, I think I'm the 4th. I wonder if it is changing hands so often because of the bunged spark plugs, no one wants that ticking time bomb under their hood. The car is fixed, they say it is running fine. Now I know that when I need to replace the spark plugs, I might lose the engine.

    Now I have to make a choice, keep this paid off car I really like and just deal with any future problems if they occur or trade it in in the spring. If I trade it in, I'd be buying a car in the 8-10+k range which is more than I would spend to replace the engine should it need it. For now, I'm just keeping the car and will deal with any future issues when the arise.

    What would you do? Would you spend more than the car "is worth" on a hard to replace car that you really like? It's an interesting conundrum.

    122407737_3803917569621047_2304463634298583612_o.jpg camery.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  2. Oct 21, 2020 at 6:58 PM
    #2
    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    Wow sucks about the Camry. It’s a moral dilemma. Tough call. Spark plugs may last a while and you could just press your luck until the time you have to change them. I had an old Chevy Impala and didn’t change the spark plugs until about 225k miles...
     
    oldscout1001[OP] likes this.
  3. Oct 21, 2020 at 6:59 PM
    #3
    Roborob70

    Roborob70 New Member

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    Hey Oldscout, my experience with seized plugs on a 2003 camry. Typically change plugs every 50k but i figured they are iridium, let them go, they are good for 100k. Big mistake plug was severely stuck in block had 1/2 breaker bar with a two foot cheater pipe on it. wouldn't budge. Impact driver the same results. Get yourself some KROIL and let it soak the plugs over night. Then just rock plug back and forth 16th to an 8th of a turn for like 20 mins. eventually it will come out. Just a big pain in the ass. Pull your plugs every 25K just so they don't seize in head.
     
    BTBAKER and oldscout1001[OP] like this.
  4. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM
    #4
    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    I will add that my brother has a 2011 Ram with the 5.7 Hemi and just replaced his engine for $5800. Truck had 95k miles. Hemis are notorious for the cam lifter failures ruining engines. He made the decision to replace the motor.
     
  5. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:23 PM
    #5
    Darkness

    Darkness Allergic to white

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    Never heard of anti sieze making spark plugs stick. I think take it to a different mechanic and don't tell them this story, see what happens.
     
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  6. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:33 PM
    #6
    oldscout1001

    oldscout1001 [OP] New Member

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    This is sort of my plan. They said the plugs they got out were in good shape so they must have been pulled relatively recently. I'm just going to let them be. The dealer charges $400 to change the plugs because they are such a PITA to get out so unless they need to come out I'll just let the be.
     
  7. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:42 PM
    #7
    AZTundra

    AZTundra No Longer a New Member

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    Wish we had 93 octane available here. :(
     
  8. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:48 PM
    #8
    Johnsonman

    Johnsonman New Member

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    LED headlamps/fogs; interior footlamps.
    Wish it made a real Difference on performance on our engines, but it does not.
     
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  9. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:56 PM
    #9
    AZTundra

    AZTundra No Longer a New Member

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    I've got the Magnuson installed, but can only get 91 out here in Phoenix. Always wondered if it would perform better on 93.
     
  10. Oct 21, 2020 at 7:56 PM
    #10
    hagrid

    hagrid The most diverse of Diversity Hires!

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    Which Sheetz store? What town?
     
  11. Oct 21, 2020 at 11:16 PM
    #11
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    You can't get 93 here; one station carries 94 but they dose it with a ton of ethanol to get there. Not sure it'd be worth it.
     
    AZTundra[QUOTED] likes this.
  12. Oct 21, 2020 at 11:37 PM
    #12
    Yzed608

    Yzed608 New Member

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    I 2nd what robo said about no kroil. Spray it in there and let it sit as long as possible. It has worked very well for me when I've used it.

    I almost want to replace my plugs early just because of this reason.
     
  13. Oct 22, 2020 at 4:46 AM
    #13
    oldscout1001

    oldscout1001 [OP] New Member

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    There's actually a post script to this story. While I was waiting with the Camry for the tow truck. I sent my son with the Tundra to pickup dinner. In the restaurant parking lot, he hit another truck when he was pulling into the parking spot. He texted my wife and told her it was just a scuff, she said leave a note with name and number which he says hedid. Turns out he actually bent the front bumper on the Tundra. Either the bumpers are made of tissue paper or the accident was more than a scuff. We have not heard back from the other party. I even took him back up after he got home to look for the other person but they were gone. He was not having a good night.

    There's actually enough room between the plastic cover and the bumper to fit my fingers up inside.
    122293475_3804114096268061_6085108225109629970_o.jpg
     
  14. Oct 22, 2020 at 4:47 AM
    #14
    oldscout1001

    oldscout1001 [OP] New Member

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    Erie PA. Sheetz #00499 By the casino
     
  15. Oct 22, 2020 at 4:51 AM
    #15
    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    Wow sorry to hear that. I have two teenage sons - and thankfully they’ve been accident free. When I was teaching my youngest to drive I took him in the truck and that was too much for him to handle, made me very nervous.
     
  16. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:09 AM
    #16
    Festerw

    Festerw New Member

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    Interesting. I bought gas there 10/17 and 10/20, no issues on my Durango or Tundra both filled with 87.

    I'll second what @Darkness said. I've been using (albeit a small amount) of anti seize on plugs for 25 years and never any issue. Sounds more like someone cranked them down too much. Even if he strips the threads you wouldn't be the first and a new engine wouldn't be the first solution. A new head sure but why the whole engine and helicoil makes very nice plug repair kits.
     
  17. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:21 AM
    #17
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    This^^^. I'm catching a whiff of BS here. I can understand telling the customer about the risk to avoid the liability, but "essentially ruin the engine?". This is not a new problem in aluminum heads, and there are remedies, even for stripped plug threads. The alternative is to assume the sparkplugs are "lifetime" and run them until the engine is unacceptably rough, or electrodes fall off into the cylinder.

    Using never-seize on sparkplugs in aluminum heads is essential IMO. I've never stripped a hole, but there have been times I've been "pinched off re-bar" close without never-seize. Just be sure you use high-quality, high-temperature never-seize. I have an old tube bought in a Volvo parts department intended for disc brakes. It works great on sparkplugs.

    My observations on using never-seize on sparkplugs: The combustion cylinder heat will vaporize any semblance of the petroleum carrier, but the metallic base will remain deposited on the threads as a powder. That metallic powder is still effective for it's intended purpose, i.e. preventing the micro-welding (galling) contact between the aluminum threads.
     
  18. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:23 AM
    #18
    PWMDMD

    PWMDMD New Member

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    If you strip the plugs why would you need a new engine and not just a new head? I understand wanting to not pay for a new anything but parts and labor can't be that bad for a new head vs a new engine.
     
  19. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:50 AM
    #19
    oldscout1001

    oldscout1001 [OP] New Member

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    Essentially what they told me is there is not official spec (not sure if that's the exact word they used) from Toyota for replacing the heads. Therefore they can't/wont do it. If this ever becomes an issue I can try to find an independent shop to do the work but at this point I'm going with what the dealer told me. Besides, when making my case with Sheetz, I think the info is taken as more reliable coming from the dealer.

    Sheetz has already tried calling me today however I was getting my younger son on the bus so I missed the call. Haven't heard back from them since leaving my own voice mail.
     
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  20. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:53 AM
    #20
    PWMDMD

    PWMDMD New Member

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    So Toyota said they has no procedure for replacing a head because no one has ever needed a head replaced and the only option is a new engine???? Yeah...I'd be at an indy shop before dropping any money on a new engine. Sure, as far as Sheetz is concerned, I get your point, but Toyota's statement sounds like BS.
     
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  21. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:59 AM
    #21
    JohnLakeman

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    Changing stuck plugs in a Camry probably makes for a long hard day, with little potential for a financial wind-fall. Tech probably decided to pass this buck back to the owner or the next tech, but then I'm a confirmed misanthrope expecting the worst from all human beings. ;)
     
  22. Oct 22, 2020 at 6:02 AM
    #22
    PWMDMD

    PWMDMD New Member

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    Exactly, which is why changing the entire head seems like it would've been quicker, easier, paid something, and fixed the OPs problem. Instead, they got paid for changing two sparkplugs (A new head would've needed 4) and now we're all sitting here discussing their confusing statements which has solidifed my take to never go to a dealer if I'm paying the bill. Seems like a new head would've been a win-win.
     
  23. Oct 22, 2020 at 6:08 AM
    #23
    akmerle

    akmerle New Member

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    Good luck with your situation!

    Not to make light of an obviously frustrating ordeal, but as a father of 15 and 13 year old boys (and having a little (cough) LOT (cough) experience of being a dumb teenager myself), I couldn’t help but laugh at how many of these phone calls I’ll be receiving.
     
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  24. Oct 22, 2020 at 6:11 AM
    #24
    Festerw

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    @empty_lord is a Toyota tech, he may have some input on this.

    If you need an independent guy I've got a recommendation out near Mill Village.
     
  25. Oct 22, 2020 at 6:20 AM
    #25
    Sunfish

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    When idiots and sparkplug wrenches collide your bound to have troubles. 1 Never touch any plug in a aluminum head when warm. 2 Always use pure nickel Anti-Seize on every plug. 3 If a dealers lips are moving don't let him walk behind you
     
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  26. Oct 22, 2020 at 7:50 AM
    #26
    empty_lord

    empty_lord They see me rollin'

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    Uh... yea we replace heads... hell Toyota won’t even send a whole engine. If they do a whole engine under warranty it’s a new short block and we assemble the heads.
     
  27. Oct 22, 2020 at 7:54 AM
    #27
    Darkness

    Darkness Allergic to white

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    I'll tell you why. To pull a head while the motor is in the car is a lot harder than while its out of the car, they will want to pull the motor to do that properly on a front wheel drive car. Consider labor cost to pull a motor and put it back in is a given.

    Add the cost for pulling the head from the motor, replacing it (parts cost) or refurbishing it (labor cost) and you are spending more than you would on a used low mileage motor.
     
  28. Oct 22, 2020 at 7:57 AM
    #28
    empty_lord

    empty_lord They see me rollin'

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    Pulling heads on a tundra in car is a pain, but doable.
     
  29. Oct 22, 2020 at 8:04 AM
    #29
    empty_lord

    empty_lord They see me rollin'

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    I just noticed this was about a Camry, DOH. The 2008s have a bad habit of burning oil, a fill engine rebuild would be best before putting a used engine in.

    unless it’s a v6...

    never heard of plugs eating up the heads because of anti seize (you really shouldn’t use it though with modern plugs) chances are they were grossly over tightened and stretched the threads. This happens a fair bit.
     
  30. Oct 22, 2020 at 8:46 AM
    #30
    GravityGear

    GravityGear Parking Lot Prerunner

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    It's not expensive to bore and helicoil a head. Not sure why that would be $5k.
     

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