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Stupid speaker wiring question (00 AC w/amp)

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by ThatYeti, Sep 7, 2022.

  1. Sep 7, 2022 at 4:55 PM
    #1
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Truck is a 2000 SR5 access cab that came with the factory amp for reference

    Already replaced the head unit and am getting back to all this now that I've needed to drive the truck a little more than once/twice a month of late.

    All of the speakers were blown when I got the truck save for the passenger door speaker. Ordered a cheap set of Alpines from Amazon with tweeters for the front. Main speaker wiring was easy enough and already have the backs done and working.

    Got around to the fronts now and the factory harness has black and red wires same as the other spots but the alpine tweeters are blue and black wires...

    I did notice on both sets (new and old) that there is like an inline capacitor on one of the two wires so I'd just planned to match those up when splicing it all together but figured it was worth asking the brain trust here before I blow a tweeter out of ignorance.

    Link to the front set below for reference:

    Alpine SXE-1751S 6.5" 280 Watt Car Audio Component Speakers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085HSGHVT
     
  2. Sep 7, 2022 at 6:45 PM
    #2
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    Generally speaking, solid black will always be ground, in the event nothing is marked. Black-to-black is virtually always a safe bet. At worst, your speaker may just end up with the wrong polarity, but it won't technically blow or anything.

    Capacitors can be used in-line to cut certain frequencies. You know how some kits come with the little crossover boxes you can use with the speakers? If you crack open the plastic box they come in, it's usually just a PCB with capacitors to cut the low/high end freqs to the speaker.

    I'll try to explain this w/o pics, but can toss together cheap pics if it helps.

    Think about a linear circuit as a stream, and a cap (capacitor) acts as a bottleneck in the stream reducing what can pass through it (high freqs or low freqs). Having a cap in-line typically isn't a problem if you're dealing with a direct run, one speaker. But say you run multiple speakers in a row ('series' circuit), weird shit can happen depending on where you put the speaker with the in-line cap.

    Like, if you go from the radio, to the positive side of the speaker with the cap, then from the negative/capped side of the speaker to your next speaker's positive terminal, then off its negative terminal back to the amp/radio, the 2nd speaker will also be capped with whatever freq limitations you had on the 1st.

    Do either of these tidbits help give you idea? "No" is an OK answer here. If any of this is confusing, LMK. I'm happy to attack it a different way if it helps w/an "aha" moment.
     
    1lowlife likes this.
  3. Sep 7, 2022 at 7:13 PM
    #3
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Appreciate all the details as always and knowing it won't 'blow' is comforting. This set didn't come with a crossover box as in sure it's too cheap for something like that but as I'm not running an amp and don't need symphony quality it's not a concern.

    All that said, if I just wire it up to mirror what was in place for the factory setup it should be ok, ya?

    I can take pics tomorrow but the wiring on the new speakers being blue and black/blue isn't terribly helpful I realize and the tweeters themselves have no markings to indicate which is pos/neg either.
     
  4. Sep 7, 2022 at 7:37 PM
    #4
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    Solid black is virtually always negative. While not everyone is required to follow standards on this, most do. Red or colored is typically positive. Solid black is virtually always ground.

    Crossover box is basically just pulling the capacitor off the wire (directly) and sticking it into a plastic box. It works the same, it's just a more modular way of handling things. If you look carefully at any biaxial or triaxial speaker, you'll notice there's a capacitor under the tweeter typically. Like this:

    upload_2022-9-7_22-40-14.jpg

    It's literally 100% "same shit different pile". Seriously. Don't get hung up on that part. Your "crossover" (the capacitor) is soldered directly on the wire for cost savings. It is what it is.

    I legitimately can't recall how the wiring is on the earlier trucks. I have it stuck in my head that the trucks with tweeters are wired in parallel. I had to look it up previous times to confirm. I feel like the door gets a two-wire feed (positive, negative) and that dumps into a "Y" adapter that splits into two positive & two negative, which go to each speaker, aka a 'parallel' circuit.

    Let me try to give you the tools you need to identify a parallel circuit versus series circuit, which you'll need to do while installing.

    upload_2022-9-7_22-32-29.jpg

    Where the "Y" comes together, there should be a plastic connector before things split off to the speakers. If so, this is an easy plug-and-play. The tricky part is, for the 'series' circuit on the left, you may also find it comes to a "Y" inside one connector, but the red line is just a pass-through on the connector. Look carefully at it to understand what's happening.

    If the positive and negative are truly separate, i.e. a parallel circuit, you're golden. It's a plug-and-play affair, no worries.

    If it's actually a series circuit, let's chat more.
     
    1lowlife likes this.
  5. Sep 7, 2022 at 7:42 PM
    #5
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Thanks and I'll grab pics of it tomorrow but the wiring for the tweeter seems independent on the main speaker. The wiring from the factory tweeter terminates in a plastic plug and it's soldered to the tweeter so I had to cut the wires and splice in the new one. Question was just which wire to match which. Given the color issue I just matched the ones that had the inline capacitor for the one I already did (but haven't plugged in to check yet).
     
    shifty` likes this.
  6. Sep 7, 2022 at 7:45 PM
    #6
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Forgot I took that one but it's the door side which shows the wires and the plug that the tweeter plugs into sort of just above the main speaker in the photo.

    PXL_20220907_232108775.jpg
     
  7. Sep 7, 2022 at 7:51 PM
    #7
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    Gotcha. It could be wiring on the older trucks is different from newer. I doubt it, but it could be.

    PS - small edits on my last reply just now. I kept the above simple, for sake of newbie intake.

    And I see you just added the picture. Here's the "Y" I'm talking about, if I'm not mistaken:

    upload_2022-9-7_22-47-50.jpg
    If I recall correctly, that should be ...

    upload_2022-9-8_21-19-5.jpg

    Somewhere between the "back to radio" plug and the 'to ...' plugs wires, those two 'back to...' wires turn into four 'to ...' wires. The most important thing is to verify whether the initial two wires are bridged together (parallel circuit) to make four wires or if they're not (like the series circuit above). EDIT: If they are in a series circuit, the capacitor could make install a bit dicey for you.

    There's an important concept related to impedance (resistance, ohms) related to the above sketch btw. When wiring in series, your impedance will be [sum of both speaker impedances x 2]. For parallel circuits, your impedance will be [sum of both speaker impedances / 2]. Probably not important, but we use this to do all kinds of fun trickery to remove or add load to our amplifiers. But maybe that's a bit advanced to talk about here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
  8. Sep 7, 2022 at 7:58 PM
    #8
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    Finally. Found the old post. Start here, but pay attention to reply # 42 in this thread:

    https://www.tundras.com/threads/door-speakers.95747/page-2

    It shows the Y adapters. I'm 80% positive that Y adapter is wired in parallel but I'd need to pull mine apart (still got 'em!) to confirm.

    Anyway, note Bubba's wiring diagrams to understand which OEM wire on that Y-split adapter is pos and neg, and wire the neg to the black wire on the new speakers, you should be fine with plug-and-play to the right wires. Be sure to turn on the radio and test the speakers before you put the door cards back on ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
  9. Sep 7, 2022 at 8:01 PM
    #9
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    And just to be brutally clear, from @BubbaW's post, for FL (front left) and FR (front right) ...

    It would appear light green on the OEM wire is positive, light blue or lilac is negative. On the other side, violet/purple is negative, pink is positive.

    Man, I hope @BubbaW is doing alright, haven't seen him in a minute!

    upload_2022-9-7_23-0-13.jpg
     
    bmf4069 likes this.
  10. Sep 7, 2022 at 8:06 PM
    #10
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Really appreciate all that despite some of it being over my head. Will give it a shot tomorrow and hope for some luck before I put it all back together. Thanks as always
     
  11. Sep 7, 2022 at 8:13 PM
    #11
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    No problem. To be super, super clear, unless I'm missing something in the OEM wiring diagram at least... :

    Blue alpine wire goes to pink OEM wire on the driver door.
    Black alpine wire goes to purple OEM on the driver door.

    Blue alpine wire goes to light greenOEM wire on the passenger door.
    Black alpine wire goes to light blue (lilac?) OEM on the passenger door.

    My only doubt comes from your picture you just posted, where it looks like the "Y" harness uses the light blue/light green up to the "to tweeter..." where it then becomes pink and purple :rofl:
     
  12. Sep 7, 2022 at 8:14 PM
    #12
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Will have to check in the AM but I believe the wires to the tweeter were red and black. Will let you know
     
  13. Sep 7, 2022 at 8:17 PM
    #13
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    I was just going by what I saw on Amazon link you posted, where they were blue and black.

    In either case, process of elimination would dictate to attach the black wire as I've indicated, then you have no other option available except to attach the alpine's colored wire to the only other available OEM wire.
     
  14. Sep 8, 2022 at 2:44 PM
    #14
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Sorry I was referring to the truck side wiring. Few pics of the current state of things before I go out and try to button it up. New tweeter is wired into the plug the factory one. And the last one is a close up of the factory tweeter and the inline capacitor it had.

    PXL_20220908_160801656.jpg
    PXL_20220908_160804055.jpg
    PXL_20220908_160820096.jpg
     
  15. Sep 8, 2022 at 3:40 PM
    #15
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Ok so that failed... plugged it in and no sound out of the tweeter...what did I mess up?
     
  16. Sep 8, 2022 at 3:55 PM
    #16
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Tried wiring up the main door speaker and that didn't help either, neither of them work... Thoughts?

    PXL_20220908_225424581.jpg
     
  17. Sep 8, 2022 at 4:03 PM
    #17
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Also this is what the new tweeters look like out of the box. Is there something I should have done with the two pairs of connectors rather than just wiring it to match what was there?

    PXL_20220908_230159014.jpg
     
  18. Sep 8, 2022 at 4:31 PM
    #18
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Figured maybe there was something elsewhere in the wiring harness that needed to be connected for it all to work...but after putting it all back together... nothing... Though this was a door where nothing worked at all before so maybe it's just all borked? Can try the passenger side tomorrow but ran out of light, and that door is the one speaker that was working from the beginning
     
  19. Sep 8, 2022 at 4:40 PM
    #19
    1lowlife

    1lowlife Toxic prick and pavement princess..

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    If the pass side works, run a new driver's side speaker wire line from the HU to the door speaker..
    It's a little work to get it thru the boot, but you can do it..:thumbsup:
     
  20. Sep 8, 2022 at 4:44 PM
    #20
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    But all the wires to the speaker and tweeter are buried in the loom...and also that seems a bit beyond my level of ability...
     
  21. Sep 8, 2022 at 4:57 PM
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    weadjust

    weadjust New Member

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    Hook the tweeter wires up to the door speaker. The capacitor on the tweeter will block the low signals and you get front right and left on what is likely a 4 channel aftermarket head unit.

    Edit after a rereading your post and it sounds like your not getting sound out of the door speaker. I was thinking you weren't getting sound out of the tweeters.
     
  22. Sep 8, 2022 at 5:00 PM
    #22
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Well the tweeter connects back to the door with a plug though... So would that still work? And just forgo the tweeters? The head unit I used is below for reference:

    Android Double Din Car Stereo with Bluetooth- Wireless Apple Carplay & Android Auto, 7 Inch Touchscreen Car Radio Receiver with Backup Camera & Mic, Bluetooth, WiFi, FM, GPS Navigation https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BQW3TRR
     
  23. Sep 8, 2022 at 5:08 PM
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    weadjust

    weadjust New Member

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    My Tundra had a 6 channel amp. 2 for rear doors, 2 for front doors, 2 for tweeters. I installed similar Kenwood component speakers with the capacitor on the tweeter. I wired my tweeters into the same wires as my front door speaker since the aftermarket headunit only has 4 channels. 2 for rear doors and 2 for front doors. The factory tweeter wiring no longer has signal since the bypass wiring harness only has wires for 4 channels.
     
  24. Sep 8, 2022 at 5:10 PM
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    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Interesting as I also deleted the factory amp. But so are you saying I'd just use the tweeter wiring more as it came and let it sort of daisy chain connect to the door speaker?
     
  25. Sep 8, 2022 at 5:21 PM
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    weadjust

    weadjust New Member

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    Yes get your tweeter signal from the door speakers and abandon the factory tweeter wiring. My kenwood components similar to yours had 4 spade connectors on the 6.5" speaker so i could just plug the tweeter wiring on to door speaker spade connetors.
     
  26. Sep 8, 2022 at 5:25 PM
    #26
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Understood and that makes sense...likely what shifty was trying to explain above but I just didn't get it. Will give that a go tomorrow and report back. Thanks for all the help from everyone on this project I started.

    *Edit if that were to work then why wouldn't the new door speaker I wired up not be working? Or do I need to remove the outgoing section to the old tweeter hookup and splice it back together?

    Also is it going to be a problem of the woofer magnet on the door speaker is touching the window track?
     
  27. Sep 8, 2022 at 6:30 PM
    #27
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    I wouldn't have told you to wire the tweeter off the mid. I don't advocate cutting factory harnesses, and you need to be careful to review whether the factory circuit is in series or parallel before doing it, and make sure you match the OEM wiring so you don't overload/underload your head unit/amp.

    First things first. Stupid check: Confirm your fader/balance settings are correct on the radio, and it's not faded all the way to one side or the other.

    Is the passenger door speaker still working? And was the driver's door not working at all previously, or was it just blown/distorted? Are you 100% positive the amp bypss cable is clipped in correctly, firmly, and you wired it properly to your head unit? Sorry, I gotta ask all this.

    Do you have a multimeter, so you can test for continuity between the front left wire on the amp bypass to the pink/purple wires at the door?

    I realized I mislabeled a pic above; it's fixed now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
  28. Sep 8, 2022 at 6:32 PM
    #28
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    Anyway, once you answer all that I've got more for you, in case you don't have a multimeter to test continuity. There's other tests you can do, I guess.

    Important thing to mention, capacitors for freq filtering are always on the positive wire. That means on the OEM tweeter, the red wire is positive, because the cap is on that wire. Same with your blue wire on the Alpines, cap is on that wire, it has to be the positive wire.

    I can't see the red or black wire here, so let's make sure your wiring is good with the speakers at least. The red wire you cut should go to the blue wire on the tweeter. Same will likely be true with the mid. Can you confirm that's how you set it up?

    You can also test your speakers. First thing I'd do. At the "Y", detach the tweeter, test if the mid begins working. If not, detach the mid, and test if tweeter begins working.

    Second thing I'd do. You can use a 9v battery to test a speaker. YouTube has several videos showing it. Normally a cone will throw when 9v battery is applied, showing the voice coil is intact and speaker responds to a signal. You won't see the tweeter cone move, but you could try testing each individual speaker, then test again where the blue/green wires meet the purple/pink wires. If you don't hear a pop or get a cone throw in one of the positions, you know where the issue is.

    Third thing I'd do, if I got cone throws on all three positions, is cut my front left lead at the head unit (the amp bypass wires) and apply 9v there. If you don't get cone throw there, your issue is in the amp bypass wiring, most likely...
     
  29. Sep 8, 2022 at 6:37 PM
    #29
    shifty`

    shifty` trying to remember when but it makes me dizzy

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    Oh, and I'd need a pic of the magnet on the window track to answer your question. It's not ideal, for sure.

    This is part of the reason I went with JBL components. Not only do they sound better, more realistic, they're typically not as deep in the basket/magnet as others.
     
  30. Sep 8, 2022 at 6:45 PM
    #30
    ThatYeti

    ThatYeti [OP] New Member

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    Radio actually doesn't have a fader or any other adjustments actually. It was super cheap and I really just wanted something with Bluetooth and to connect the backup camera to...still on the to do list...

    Passenger door speaker is still working but none of the drivers speakers ever worked since I got the truck. I'd have to go back to the other thread where I detailed installing the head unit but given both rears and the passenger front are all working I think we can assume the amp bypass is all set, no?

    Have a multimeter...don't know how to use it...
     

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