Leveling Advice

Hi everyone!

I am new to the first-gen Tundra community and had some questions about leveling my 2004 SR5. Once I need new tires I am planning on upgrading to Bilstien 5100's to level the truck.

I also want to run 33's on the stock 16x7 wheels. I'm sure plenty of people on here have experience with this. I was hoping to not spend money on new wheels but is that something I need? Can I fit a 33 on the stock wheels? Will I need to trim? Does there need to be an offset?

 

First of all welcome and you’re going to get roasted a bit as all this information is already here.

 

Yes and no.

Suspension, wheel and tires ...

• NO, you probably won't be cleanly tucking 35s on a 1GT w/o rub unless you're prepared to drop a significant chunk of money on a proper 6" lift, to tub your firewall, cut or hammer pinch welds, remove your mud flaps, add wheel spacers up front, and still potentially rub somewhere. Yes, it's possible to do, it's just not cheap. You should realistically be prepared to drop more than the insured value of your truck to get there, between lifting, wheels, tires, and alignments. Buy extra insurance!
• YES, 33s are very do-able with minimal rubbing on a quality 2"-2.5" lift. Look at the end of this section for specific brands and situations to avoid. Do you and your truck a favor, buy from a known, reputable vendor like Toytec, Icon, Fox, Elka, Eibach, or similar 'quality' name brand, any of their 'stage 1' lift kits are sufficient. After installing one of those kits, many members here with AC and DC trucks are tucking ~33s (either skinny 33 proper, or "near-33" with 285/70r17) and minor rub, if any. Seems the DC trucks tend to rub more/worse than AC/RC trucks.
• MOREOVER, understand something: 2" of lift with oversized tires is a significant lift! I have roughly 2" lift with my Toytec coilovers, and I'm running 275/70r17 tires (32.2") and my double-digit aged kids have trouble getting in and out, it sits about 4" higher off the ground in reality. I'm over 6ft tall and need to use the OEM steps to get in. Most people with road queens or mild offroad, fire roads, etc. will be perfectly happy with a 1" lift and upsizing 1" on tires to 265/70r17 (31.6").
• We also have members with no "real" lift, i.e. just a basic strut spacer (puck) providing 1.5" or so of lift and clearing 275/70r17 (~32.2") with minimal rubbing. Of course, spacer lifts aren't recommended for heavy off-road (collapse/crack risk), they're find if you just want a little extra added meat for on-road driving.
• Wheel fitment(backspacing/offset info) ... backspacing/offset plays an important role in whether or not you're gonna rub when choosing larger-than-OEM tires. If you need help with understanding what ballpark you should be aiming in, this is a good thread to read. Gist: The best balance to poke out near the fender edge without rub is an 8.5" wide wheel with ~4.75" backspace. As you get near 4.5" backspace, you'll be rubbing. Many popular OEM wheels were 5" backspace. You can run oversize 275/70r17 tires on 17x8.5" wheels at 0 offset (i.e. 4.75" backspace) with little to no lift.
• Wheel fitment (from other Tundras): 2007-2022 Tundras use 5-lug wheels. In 2023, Tundras started using 6-lug axles again, but the hub bore is smaller (95mm on 3rd gen vs. 106mm on 1st gen), so they technically won't work unless you spend a couple hundo on custom-made spacers.
• Wheel fitment (from other Toyota models): Anything from Tacomas, 4Runners, Land Cruiser, LX470 and GX models that are 6-lug will typically fit. Someone here is probably running it already, and pics of it are in the OEM wheels thread.
• If you're new to suspension, and all the words people are using sound Greek, or you need help to evaluate what you've got, this series of repliesmay help to understand what parts are involved.
• There are two basic types of lift: Adjustable and Static. "Static" is either non-adjustable, or it requires some disassembly to adjust (example: struts with variable circlips like the Bilstein 5100). "Adjustable" is typically a coilover, which can be adjusted any time, on the fly, to truly dial-in height as needed. Obviously, after adjusting your suspension, go get re-aligned. Suspensions typically settle after install, you may want to wait a bit before alignment, or get realigned again later.
• Virtually every lift kit you see online is going to be geared towards DOUBLE CAB 4WD, its specific weight and geometry. DC 4WD (/Seqoia) is the heaviest of all 1st Gen trucks. If you have an AC or RC truck, and/or you are 2WD instead of 4WD, be forewarned, you'll get more lift than advertised on pre-packaged lifts! This is a painfully pre-purchase warning for any V6 and 2WD folks driving AC/RC trucks out there!
• Extras... At 1.5" of lift or higher, you'll want extended swaybar links, Suspension Maxx sells, to avoid travel limitations. As you approach 2.5" of lift with 1GT trucks, you're closing in on thresholds of OEM travel and should consider extras to compensate. Examples: You'll want new upper control arms (UCA) to more easily hit alignment numbers. At 3" and beyond, you may need to snug up your OEM CV boots or get ORS extended boots or similar to avoid grease-sling or ripping, and probably add bumpstops, etc. There are a lot of considerations - think about it, or ask questions in the forum if you need a sanity check!
• When buying new upper control arms, There are a few types, know what you're getting, read more hereto help you decide.
• For rear lifting, try to avoid using blocks (esp. if towing, axle wrap is bad mmmkay), consider an AAL (add-a-leaf) kit to get an extra 0.75" - 2.0" lift instead (*if* you don't need your overload leaf!), or many members have found a new ATS "HD" leaf pack was a very wallet-friendly way to get a solid, no-brainer 1.5" - 2" lift, part# 90-221HD for 4WD, 90-287HD for 2WD and it includes an overload leaf. WARNING: The Icon 51100 add-a-leaf kit ONLY gives 1st Gen Tundras between 0.5" - 0.75" of lift IRL! The Wheeler's offroad kit is a better option for 1.5" (ish) of lift. NOTE: You should look into buying an LSPV relocation bracket unless you want a lesser braking experience after lifting.
• One OEM suspension upgrade Toyota offered for the 1GT was Bilstein, others got KYB. For "leveling" a truck and lifting up to 3" or more while keeping factory-ish ride, many people therefore opt for Bilstein. The Bilstein 5100s are a very popular choice because you can adjust the spring cup to different heights using circlips/notches to get more or less lift *if*using non-lifted springs. You could also get a bit deeper into the Bilstein line for more money, and go with the 5160 or 6110 line.
• If you go with the more popular option, the Bilstein 5100, you have two spring options, either stick with your stock springs, or go with a lifted spring. If you go with a lifted spring, some online vendors will pre-assemble the spring into the strut at an extra charge to make it a bolt-in experience. However, whichever spring option you choose, there are limitations, like, if you plan to re-use your OEM springs, different cabs & drivetrains have set limits that aren't recommended to exceed (see chart here for OEM springs and notch allowances). If you choose to install taller aftermarket springs to get lift, such as any of the spring offerings from ARB/OldManEmu/OME, Dobinsons or Eibach, Bilstein suggests to only use the bottom notch/circlip on the 5100 strut to avoid issues (will probably offer a smoother overall ride). For a true-to-OEM-stock-replacement without lifting, either go with the Bilstein 4600, or get a 5100 and use your stock springs at the bottom circlip/notch.
• If choosing a lifted spring on Bilstein 5100s, here's some selection guidance. A popular option is 5100s paired with OME (Old Man Emu, not 'OEM') springs. It can be daunting which spring to pick, between the 2883, 2884, 2885, 2886, 2887. From ample user experiences here on the forum, we know what you can expect: For AC/RC with 2WD, If you want to get near-level, go OME 2883, and if you plan to also lift the rear, go OME 2884. For AC/RC with 4WD, go 2883 for a sport rake, use the 2884 to get level, or if you plan to lift the rear 1.5" - 2" after, then go with the 2885. For nearly all DC applications, you'll get "sport" rake with the 2884, near level with the 2885, or if you plan to lift the rear, OME 2887 is probably your jam. With any suggestion given here, expect it'll take at least a few dozen miles of driving before your suspension settles. We've seen a couple of AC/RC people ignore or miss this advice, they wound up with Carolina Squat because they expected OME 2885s would be right for their AC/RC 2WD truck - it's just not the case, and a lot of vendors don't bother to inform their customers any of this, so learn from their mistakes.
• Know many companies, like OME/Old Man Emu don't actually make kits for the 1st Gen Tundras, most kits are adapted from 4Runners and Tacomas therefore, depending on your cab type & drivetrain, you can really screw yourself w/too much lift, travel issues, or damage. It's especially true for AC/RC trucks - If a vendor says their 1st gen OME kit is good for 2"-3" of lift, that number is more for DC/4WD trucks, AC/RC 4WD owners can expect to exceed 3" lift ... and if AC/RC 2WD owners can expect 4" or more. Yes, 100% serious, we've seen it happen, folks here had to replace their brand new lift after. DC 4WD owners probably won't see this problem. DC 2WD owners may get more than advertised, but not nearly as bad as the RC/AC guys do, and you may not screw anything up, but be prepared. Note: OME is a great company. I suspect they're only doing this to avoid the DC/4WD and Sequoia owners from getting pissed if they didn't get a full 2.5"-3" from an OME lift kit.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-...ught-a-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/#post-2980386

 

Welcome Bluey! It would help us to know if you have a Regular Cab, Access Cab, or Double Cab and also if it's a v6 or v8. You'll get different results with different configurations.
Feel free to ask any questions, I'm here to help as much as I can.

 

I thought the 2885 OME bilstien 5100s would bring the truck to level (DC 4WD)? Am I mistaken? I want to be level but 2887s seem a bit much, but then you just said 2885s wouldn’t bring to level or even a little above the back height?

 

From my research 2885's should bring about 2" on a 4wd DC. I think they recommend 887's if you're gonna add armor bumper/winch.

Someone with that set up correct me if I'm wrong though. My 885's are still sitting in my garage waiting for more parts to arrive before install

 

I have 2885s, but I fit into the 2WD V6 AC category and saw a 3" lift over factory. I had to raise my rear 2"

 

2885 should put a 4WD DC at just about level, plus or minus a quarter inch. The bulleted numbers from the megathread quoted above are assembled from the overall lift experiences other members on here (and some on TS) have had.

What you’re doing in the rear should dictate what you do in the front. What weight you intend to add should dictate overall suspension as @FishNinja alluded to.

You should read the megathread on wheels and tires. Your newer-year truck has 13WL calipers. There are many 16” wheels which WILL NOT fit without rubbing caliper. Please do yourself a favor and read the megathread.

 

PS - if you’re intending to run 33s, you likely need to do more than just level the truck. And you also need to ask yourself: are you ready for your truck to be 4-5” higher off the ground?

 

I’ve considered this a bit. I have the 14WA oversized calipers so I’m not able to run 16” wheels. I’m looking to give the truck better clearance and level it which is why I’m getting suspension. I don’t plan on having anything in the back like a shell or camping set up, and also don’t plan on having any heavy bumper or winch in the future. This being the case, I do also plan on getting a little bit bigger tires than I currently have (265/65/17). Is where anything I should be aware of/replace before doing so? Thanks.

 

So ... you wanna buy / just bought a 1st Gen Tundra, eh? | Toyota Tundra Forum (tundras.com)

 

What size tires?

 

That was my question too. I’m one size up from his current size at 275/70r17 and I was rubbing even with 2” lift. And my truck cab sits about 4” higher off the ground. Kids have trouble getting in. Everyone in my house is 5’4 or shorter, and I’m over 6’. Even I’ve gotta stretch and use the step to get in.

 

I have 265/65/17s currently with the oem 05 limited wheels. I just got 265/70/17s that I plan on putting on next week. After that I plan on a bilstien 2885 1.5” lift in the front to sit level. Just want to give it a little more height and clearance but nothing crazy. I am 5’10 and the only other person that uses my truck is my dad who is 6’.[/QUOTE]

 

If I were to get a 2.5 inch lift I’m the front, what is needed to 1) make it level in the back and 2) keep everything else functioning properly? I know I need the extended sway links, and I’ve heard other things about people needing UCAs, front brake line extensions, and other things. I’m wondering what the most effective method would be to lift the rear to match the front? I’ve seen spacing blocks, all new HD leaf springs, or adding a leaf to give it the extra lift? Thanks for all of the advice! Just sold my motorcycle and now I have the money so I’m super excited to get started.

 

Get the front lift, measure, get parts for rear accordingly. It's different for everybody. Also depends on your needs. Will you be towing a lot? None at all? Hauling extra shit for camping or as they say now "errverr lunding". That will dictate what you do to the rear.

highly doubtful you'll need to extend brake lines unless you get crazy

uca's are highly recommended, they will help get better alignment/just make your life that much easier.


Stay the fuck away from lift blocks and lift spacers.

 

Okay. Just basic off-roading and Overlanding (hoping To). Not a ton of stuff crazy that I will be doing, most likely just camping gear in the bed and that’s it. Not towing or hauling. If I plan on a 2.5 lift in the front, would UCAs, extended sway links, and an add a leaf be ideal? Just thinking if it’s worth to lift 2.5 and then get all the parts needed or just buy a 2.0” level and then use the money for other things. Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

 

First off, I feel like you need to ask yourself: WHY do you need to lift it 2.5" in the front? Is there any specific reason? There are undoubtedly people on here who do plenty offroad simply by leveling the front. What is it you hope to gain from 2.5" that you won't somehow get from 1" or 1.5" in the front?

I'm saying this as someone who went 2" - 2.5" (ish) up front and in rear. I'm of the realization now that there's some side effects that come with it, like ...

• My truck sits about 4"-5" higher, which makes it harder for the kids (and me) to get in
• I'm slinging grease out of my CV axles, which sit at a higher angle, and will make them expire faster (I need to re-clamp them)
• I definitely have more clunks, and everything is harsher (partially due to E-rated tires, I'm sure)
• I will wear out all of my bushings faster, with more pressure on things

Sticking with 1" - 1.5" lift, if it'll suit your needs, you alleviate the need for new UCA, for example. You could probably stick with OEM swaybar links. You probably won't need to lift out back because you'll be just about level, or if you do, a simple 1/2" block would suffice, though an AAL kit is suggested if you intend to go higher, or a new leaf if you're going 1.5" or more out back.

There are some things that are missing/wrong in your reply here too. I'm running closer to 2.25" lift up front, and I didn't need longer brake lines. Even at full extension, there's no tug. I should, at some point, update to 3"-4" longer braided lines, but ... later. Likewise, if you lift the rear, there are other things you'll need to compensate for in the back, like LSPV bracket extension and adjustment, your braking will suffer otherwise.

But stop for a second. If you haven't read the "Suspension, wheel and tires ..." section of this post, you should. Re-read it.

Then stop and think what most people don't seem to stop and think, which is WHAT GOAL AM I TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, but beyond the scope of "I want to overland". If "I want to overland" is the goal you're trying to accomplish, then flip the question around: How is 2.5" lifting of your truck making it more "overland-worthy" than lifting 1.25" in the front?? Reality is, it probably isn't.

This is a lot of money to drop on something. A lot of dudes have more money in suspension/wheels/tires than their whole truck. Be smart, so you don't spend more than you need to!

 

+1

 

This answers lots of questions I had. I only want a lift for my clearance and by the looks of everything I’ve read of here, a 2.5” isn’t worth or needed for what I’m doing. Planning on getting bilstien 2885 OME springs so I’ll be about level. Other than that, I just need to look into equipment and possibly a camper shell.

 

If you plan on a camper/equipment. You're gonna wanna look into ATS or GeneralKC HD leafs 100% f

 

If you're going 2885, it'll get you to just about level if other DC owners' experience is any evidence.

I'd probably do 2884 myself, just for less work required out back. If you go 2885, you may find you'll need to throw a less-stout AAL kit in rear that gives roughly an inch, like the ICON kit (this is the only case where I'd EVER recommend that kit). Just note most AAL kits require you to remove your overload spring, the flat slab at the bottom of your pack, which drops you half inch or so in height. That ¾" lift you get is closer to 1¼" if you leave the overload in, ask me how I know

If you really plan to haul a lot of shit, like, more than 600-800# regularly, 2885 with AAL is more sensible.

 

If I were to get 2885, are leafs needed in the back? Based on what I know, 2885s will level it in the fron without anything else being needed, which is what I’m looking for.

 

I would need to dig back thru and confirm that one by checking out others who've done the same. I know on a V8/4WD AC, it'll have you riding high in the front. It's possible on a DC it'll basically get you perfectly level, which is what I'm recalling. The important thing to think about here, IMHO, is ...

• You have a ~200lb camper shell on your truck, which is added weight that can drop the rear 1/8", maybe?
• You're using the word "overlanding" which most people here seem to hate rofl: ), and it implies you'll have a lot of camping supplies, potentially drawers, sleeping stuff in the rear which adds weight, potentially dropping it more?
• Now you're potentially squatting
• If you go 2884 and are sitting ½" lower in the front, adding all that stuff just gets you level.

 

Correct about the camping supplies, drawers, etc. I have thought about that and I definitely do not want a squat when fully loaded up. I think I will get 2885 springs with an AAL kit, no UCAs. I assume extended sway links aren’t NEEDED but it is recommended just for peace of mind and to be safe. Assuming all of this sounds good, I’ll be placing an order tonight. Just got new tires, and it’s about summer, so I’m super excited to start ordering things and installing. Thanks for the advice, appreciate it lots.

 

Honestly, once you get over 1-1½" you should really consider extended links to make up that gap. And if you aren't going beyond 1½", you don't have to, but you at least need to adjust your current links so you're not blowing out the bushings ... that brings up an important point...

If you lift the truck, you're stretching the distance the link is getting pulled, and you'll be smushing your bushings. In light of that, when you lift your truck anything more than half an inch or so you MUST go in and (A) adjust / dial out your swaybar bushings up front, and (B) adjust / dial out your top shock bushings out back. If you don't, you're going to blow out your bushings in short timeframe because the added lift will be crushing them.

You still haven't answered the question though: Do you really need the extra ½"-¾" up front you'll be getting with the 2885? You seem to be really hung up on getting that spring. It would be smarter, less cost, and less strain/wear/tear if you went with 2884 because you shouldn't need to lift the rear. I guess I'll ask again: Why do you need that extra lift in the front? How is it realistically going to help you with "clearance"? I'd put that money into sliders or something if you're worried about getting hung up on stuff or clearance.

Also, what size wheels and tires do you intend to run?

 

Im currently running 17inch wheels, 31.6 inch tires. You are right, I am not gaining anything with the extra 1/2 inch lift up front. Same cost with the 2884 and 2885. 2884s wouldn’t put as much stress on other parts as 2885s. When you say “dial out swaybar bushings” and “dial out top shock bushings out back” what exactly do you mean? Thanks in advance, plan on getting the suspension professionally installed btw.

 

I'm also on 17s but with 32.2" tires (on paper, 32.5 in reality).

Worst case with 2884, I suspect - even though Bilstein supposedly advises against anything but bottom circlip with lifted springs - you could potentially jump a circlip if you're unhappy and it should be at the exact same height you would've been at with the 2885s.

On the bushings. Think about it like this.

On the front ... When you lift the front end, the added height of the strut is going to push the lower control arm (LCA, red line) downward, in direction of the red arrow. Note the swaybar link is attached to the LCA and acts as a tension/retention point between the swaybar and the LCA. Look carefully at the swaybar end of the extended link in my picture, notice there's a poly bushing above and below the eye end of the swaybar, to prevent metal-on-metal contact. Well, if you push the LCA down in the direction of the arrow, you're suddenly adding a hell of a lot of extra load/strain on that top bushing I'm pointing at with the blue arrow, eh? Notice there are extra threads on top of the swaybar link, above the arrow, your OEM swaybar link is exactly the same, you can actually loosen that top nut to relieve the pressure/strain/tension you're adding when you lift. This is one of many things that gets strained when you lift, and you'll blow out your bushings really fast and have metal-on-metal contact if you don't adjust stuff like this after. Extended links are 1" longer than OEMand re good for 2-4" lift; OEM links probably have enough threads to dial out and compensate 1-1½" lift and still be safe. Does this make sense? (more text after the image)

​

Likewise ... with the rear shocks. See the way the top bushings on that swaybar are making a sandwich on the swaybar? The rear shocks are similar at the top attachment. The bottom has a single bolt and can't move much. The top part of the shock passes thru your frame, with a "bushing sandwich", basically a bushing on either side of the frame, and washers on top and bottom to hold it together. Well, looking at that from the top-side of things, where you can see the upper bushing, what happens when you're lifting, and pushing your axle farther away from the bed? Well, it's exerting more pressure downward, as shown by the arrow here, and flattening that bushing farther than it should be. With any of these bushings, you should only be tightening to the point that the sidewall of the bushing is barely starting to "engage", if the sidewall of your bushing is as-engaged as parenthesis (_), that's too much engagement! What you see here in the pic is perfect. While someone can argue "But the shock is a piston, it just won't retract as far!", I can tell you from direct experience... I installed my 5100 rear shocks before lifting. I didn't adjust anything after lifting ~2" in back, and a few weeks later while hunting rattles, I noticed the top bushing, same one pictured here, was squashed! Moral of the story: Any time you lift, check any bushings like these to dial back engagement. It's easy with the swaybar links, you should be removing them completely when installing your lift.

​

 

You shoulda went white letter out

 

I know, and agree, even though others on here will disagree. I'm kinda pissed the shop didn't even f'n ask me what I wanted. They just installed it. BOTH TIMES. Without a peep.