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How best to level: 2006 TRD AC 4wd w/steel bumper

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by bulltrout, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. Aug 8, 2022 at 7:48 PM
    #1
    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Greetings, this is my first post here. I've been reading lots of helpful info but haven't found a thread that addresses my specific quandary yet. I happily bought this truck with 135K miles a couple months ago. (I plan to lose the tonneau cover, just need to find a shell first.) I'll be overlanding the truck on bumpy roads and prefer a smooth ride on pavement.
    I'd like to add a Coastal Offroad steel bumper, and I'd also like to lift the front 2" for a nearly level stance. (I figured somebody with the same truck has accomplished this?) I assume my truck still has the original TRD springs and maybe original shocks as they're the yellow Bilsteins. Will it work well to go with 5100s and the original TRD springs, or better to go with Old Man Emu 2885, or 2884s, or something else to level the stance? Which adjustment on the 5100s? I was concerned that 2885s would require UCAs or diff drop, which I prefer to avoid but maybe the bumper will resolve this? What would happen if I add 5100s to the rear improve the ride? .5 to 1" lift in the rear would be fine with me. Perhaps you'd use a different approach? Thanks in advance for your thoughts . .

    F1F25DEC-E237-4FC4-86BD-7C8D93124F1B.jpg
     
  2. Aug 8, 2022 at 8:17 PM
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    alb1k

    alb1k Chickens to paralyze in the back of the Ridgeline

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    The best way to lift or level the front is with adjustable coilovers.
     
  3. Aug 8, 2022 at 9:35 PM
    #3
    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for the quick response. I found a us[​IMG]eful thread comparing Bilstein 6112s with 5100s. With the Coastal Offroad bumper, will I need to go with 700lb spring rate or will the 650 softer spring be ample?
     
  4. Aug 8, 2022 at 9:48 PM
    #4
    alb1k

    alb1k Chickens to paralyze in the back of the Ridgeline

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    All I can say is the reason I like adjustable coilovers is that they are adjustable. I have a 05 DC and all the weight you can throw at it. As I progressed, I went from 650lb to 700lb and in my case, am considering 750lb. But, I found a pretty good tune with one spring swap so far, and adjusting my preload about a dozen or more times. My point is, there is no one size fits all. Tire size also plays. I've changed my bump stop set up several times. If you know you will be in a narrow range and won't add more weight or change tire size and offset, you can probably go with what others with similar have done. My set up has evolved to the point I'm very happy, but it has been a bit of doing to get it there.
     
  5. Aug 9, 2022 at 6:05 AM
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    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    I'm going to drop the dump of info I wish someone would've offered to me, as an Access Cab (AC) driver, 1-2 years ago. The majority of info you'll find on forums and vendor websites seems to target Double Cab (DC) owners and nobody ever seems to bother to ask about cab type before giving advice, and it can have a very significant difference on your end result.

    First things first, please tell us what drivetrain you have and maybe update that in your profile/truck info. I mention this because, as you start talking about lifting, virtually all of the vendor websites and forum recommendations are f'd up, for the reasons I mentioned before andm more, your outcome is highly dependent on two things: (1) which cab type you have, and (2) whether you've got the added weight of a 4WD drivetrain.

    Most vendors will give you "guesstimates" on minimum lift based on OEM's calculation of the heaviest possible truck config, i.e. a DC w/V8 4WD. They may say 2.5" is the lift you'll get, and you'll get that on a DC 4WD truck, but when an AC 2WD owner with a V6 installs it, they get end up with 3.5" lift and reverse-rake like this member. Sometimes the rake may be correct, but you'll end up like this AC owner, whose Old Man Emu (OME) kit was basically maxing out his truck, they're notorious for grossly underestimating what their kits will lift on non-DC kits to a point I think it's dangerous.

    For maximum flexibility, @alb1k is 100% correct, you'd want to go coilovers. There's no guesswork at all on this one, if the height looks off, you just crank up or down. You'll spend anywhere from 30% more to 300%+ more going this route depending on what you choose. There've been a plethora of gripes about the Icon coilovers leaking/failing here and at Ih8Mud and half a dozen other sites, but we do have other access cab (AC) members using them like @FirstGenVol and that guy I just linked, @S-Man also. They can maybe provide input.

    If you just wanted to get something "static" that's going to work, many on here do go the 5100 route as a solution for mixed ride use (pavement + light offroad). With an AC 4WD truck that has no armor, 5100s with ARB's OME 2884 spring should get you to a very slight rake (AC 2WD should be level), with 5100s and OME 2885, most AC 4WD guys have found they're almost perfectly level (AC 2WD will have rear squat), and with armor on that 2885 combo, AC 4WD should be level or maybe a tiny 1/4"-1/2" rake. Either way, with any option here, you could clear 275 tires and not need to worry about add-a-leaf or otherwise out back.

    I've only heard 1 in 10 people complain about the ride w/5100s, they're basically "OEM+", your original yellow shocks are Bilsteins, equivalent to the 4600 if not actually 4600s. If you wanted to get even more lift, 3"+ with front armor and a winch and you're 4WD, 5100 w/OME 2887 would probably do it, but before you get into that lift range, there's other stuff you need to know...

    Some things you need to know. If you're limiting front lift to 2.5" you can probably get away with not doing anything extra, and still get it into alignment after. Any lift approaching or exceeding the 3" mark up front should see some additions:
    • New upper control arms - else you won't get into alignment. SPC, Camburg, Total Chaos are popular brands, I went SPC because the construction felt more stout & I prefer their ball joint style for lower maintenance, longevity.
    • Extended sway bar links - Almost everyone on here I've seen is using Maxx links.
    • High-angle boots - A lot of guys go with the red high angle boots from Off Road solutions (ORS).
    • Rear lift - Avoid blocks, go add-a-leaf (AAL) and/or aftermarket leaf pack, and you may want to consider some of the relocation kits if you want to go long travel.
    • Driveline angle corrections - at minimum, for 4WD, you'll want a diff drop kit, but may want to consider pinion angle corrections, carrier bearing spacer or whatever others are using.
    • Others may have add'l input here, I dunno. Anyone want to chime in? Maybe lower control arms too?
    Of course, after any lift, or after any tire change, you're going to want to get re-aligned. @assassin10000 is the king of info for Tundras.com dealing w/1st Gen alignments. His recommendation is usually to urge the shop doing the alignment to aim for these numbers in most cases per this post:

    -0.3 camber
    2.8 caster
    0.15 to 0.25 total toe​

    Whatever you do, avoid Rough Country kits at all costs with these trucks. The price tag is tempting, but too many dudes have come on here with their shit all bent up and busted looking for help after using their kits.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  6. Aug 9, 2022 at 6:06 AM
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    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    PS - when was the timing belt last changed, and how does your frame look, rust-wise?

    Toyota recommends 90k/9yrs on timing belt changes, and if it snaps, your engine is toast. These trucks also had probs with frame rusting out from under the truck if they were ever driven in salt road states.
     
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  7. Aug 9, 2022 at 10:28 AM
    #7
    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions and insights. This is my first Tundra after searching for a while. I was sitting in my T100 about to leave the local Ace Hardware parking lot when a guy pulled in with it, we started talking and I bought it from him two weeks later. I've been around Toyota trucks long enough that I checked the frame and timing belt records before buying. I've had a '97 T100 since '98 (it's great) and owned a few Land Cruisers. I put an ARB bumper on a 93 LC with a Tough Dog suspension kit that I really enjoyed off road and on and was able to avoid UCAs, diff drop, etc. I ran 33" tires with that one. I wish TD or Iron Man built suspension kits for the 1st gen Tundra, or maybe they do and they're unobtanium.

    I get the message that variables are at play here. This truck is a 4wd (see thread title) V8 TRD. To add to level/lift kit considerations, I hear TRDs got progressive coils and more lift so the lift result from a given aftermarket coilover setup on this truck will be different than on a non-TRD model, correct? And in my case, throw in the Coastal Offroad bumper. I'd like to run 32" tires if possible. And today I measured center hubs to fender tops on this truck at the following: LFront 20 3/4"; RFront 20 7/8"; LRear 22 1/4"; RRear 21 3/4". Do these differences mean something? Peolpe around here seem pleased with 6112 Bilsteins paired with the Eibach Springs. Here's a question: what's the difference between coilovers and shocks assembled with coil springs?

    I appreciate the above wisdom about keeping things flexible with coilovers and adapting to ride/lift rather than imposing fixed expectations onto the truck and ride. Sounds like it will cost more up front but save money and time later. I'd like to find a sweet spot between whole hog expenditures, having a durable/comfortable ride, and leveling at about 2" front lift.
     
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  8. Aug 9, 2022 at 10:34 AM
    #8
    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    And thanks, Shifty, for breaking down the 5100 with OME springs experiences and expectations, and other technical info. That's useful information for my truck.
     
  9. Aug 9, 2022 at 11:16 AM
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    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    I recall reading that. I have an '06 V8/4WD AC Limited model, my stance looks similar. I feel like it may be the 4WD part that has the more stout springs, but someone will likely correct me on that.

    Your measurements are near identical to mine. Yes, mine are off 1/8-1/8 inch per sides. The trucks have a natural favor to one side up front, the "Tundra lean", and the rear can fluctuate based on gas or whatever, is the speculation.

    32s should be possible, no problem. FirstGenVol went with the Icon coilover kit on his truck and is running 285/70/17 (285 for sure, pretty sure the rest is right) on his AC truck, no wheel spacers, and only rubs a little frame when in full lock reverse, per his admission.

    A shock assembles with a coil spring is commonly called a "strut" or "strut assembly". The coil sits in a pre-defined location, wherever the bottom spring perch or basket is welded to the strut.

    A coilover has a threaded shaft, so you can - on the fly - raise the bottom spring seat location dynamically, getting the most micro-adjustment possible, while the strut remains installed on the vehicle. In lowered applications, it can lead to a stiffer ride, I've never used coilovers in a lift application. I come from the hot rod world, where lowering and stiffening are more common, so I can't speak much to lifts with coilovers.

    FYI, the 5100 is an adjustable shock and/or strut. There's a c-clip that holds the bottom spring perch at any of 3-4 levels, so it's technically adjustable, but not without some work to remove it, compress the spring, then move the c-clip up a notch, and reinstall. It's maybe possible to do while mounted, but I wouldn't. Also important, if you use a "lifted" (taller) spring, most manufacturers will say you must use the bottom notch/clip on the 5100.

    I think we're all looking for that. I'm not sure it exists. For these trucks, I'd consider the first cutoff to be 2.5" versus 3" lift, where going 3"+ means you'll need to replace a lot more than just the shocks/springs.

    We all want more adjustability, but a lot of people don't want to spend $1,500+ on coilovers alone just to do a 2" lift and/or level, it's a lot of coin when you can get 5100s+springs for half that.

    But 2" lift, durable, comfortable, and being OK with a static lift, these trucks came with Bilsteins, so 5100s are the natural choice. You can even skip the new upper control arms if you stick with pairing it with the 2884 or 2885 from OME.

    I can give pics of what other access cabs look like with 5100/2885. @Dave8699 is one of our AC members with that setup.
     
  10. Aug 9, 2022 at 3:04 PM
    #10
    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    PS - dropping a couple of links to other AC owner build threads with lifts.

    @wandering_boy - Went with Toytec coilovers up front, is running 32x10.5s - https://www.tundras.com/threads/just-some-kids-ac-build-wip.81462/

    @bmf4069 - also went with Toytec coilovers up front, the kit he chose uses 5100s (before/after settle pics here) - https://www.tundras.com/threads/save-ironman-2022-aka-panhandlemonium.105311/

    This thread with measurements may have other examples, maybe others know about other AC build threads I missed - https://www.tundras.com/threads/how-big-is-yours-measure-up.46186/
     
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  11. Aug 10, 2022 at 10:19 AM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Thanks Shifty!!

    The Coastal Offroad bumper is on hold due to horrendous communication from the company's "Support" guy. Either he's too busy for a first-time customer or figuratively and literally out to lunch. Maybe this means I should go with coilovers so that I can make adjustments when time comes for a bumper.
     
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  12. Aug 10, 2022 at 10:37 AM
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    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    I got this kit:

    Screenshot_20220810-123638_Adblock Browser.jpg



    You can upgrade the springs to 700lb if you want.
     
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  13. Aug 10, 2022 at 1:22 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    That looks like a good option, thanks! It didn't show up on the website until I used the search bar. The 700lb spring is on backorder.
     
  14. Aug 10, 2022 at 5:00 PM
    #14
    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    650lb should be more than sufficient for your AC, even with the front bumper. 700lb I'd assume to be a better fit for DC with armor, as with alb1k's case.

    Remember, as you adjust your coilovers for more lift, you'll be compressing the spring, which should effectively stiffen things up, while reducing travel. If you were planning not to go very tall, I could see some possible value in 700lb, but ...

    Also remember, you can always swap out springs later. The two aren't inseparable.
     
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  15. Aug 10, 2022 at 5:04 PM
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    alb1k

    alb1k Chickens to paralyze in the back of the Ridgeline

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    You want adjustable if you can. Add a bumper, add a winch, add sliders, skids, or don't. But they are still adjustable.
     
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  16. Aug 10, 2022 at 5:07 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Roger that. Is it correct that there are two kinds of "adjustable", as in Bilstein 5100s and other shocks that are adjustable before install and then there are coilovers, which are adjustable on the fly?
     
  17. Aug 10, 2022 at 5:15 PM
    #17
    alb1k

    alb1k Chickens to paralyze in the back of the Ridgeline

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    By adjustable, I mean threaded collars. Bilstein with perches also do it with less precision and more work each time you adjust. I can adjust each side in 5-8 minutes with threaded collars (and practice).
     
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  18. Aug 10, 2022 at 5:26 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    My Tough Dog rear shocks were knob adjustable on the fly but this seems to be a different kettle of fish.
    So are these genuine coilovers even though they have Bilstein with perches in them? I'm considering these for my truck.

    https://www.suspensionlifts.com/sho...Hhc_yP7A9WEZ2bINLGn8ZKDES04pJAOAaAhAcEALw_wcB
     
  19. Aug 10, 2022 at 5:38 PM
    #19
    alb1k

    alb1k Chickens to paralyze in the back of the Ridgeline

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    My opinion is the best you are going to do without adding 1K to the price tag. I have them on the 4R and love them.
     
  20. Aug 10, 2022 at 7:01 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Can you be more specific, i.e. what is the best I'm going to do? Are you referring to the link I sent? Are they real coilovers? I'm asking because I've seen where a shock inside a spring was called a coilover and it clearly wasn't.
     
  21. Aug 10, 2022 at 7:08 PM
    #21
    alb1k

    alb1k Chickens to paralyze in the back of the Ridgeline

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    What you linked are coilovers. The difference between those and mine on the 4R is those use Springs to adjust height. My 4R bilsteins use OEM springs and you adjust perches to adjust height.

    What most people refer to as coilovers, are King, Fox, Radflo, with collars that adjust preload, the collars are threaded like a big nut.
     
  22. Aug 10, 2022 at 7:15 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Thanks!
     
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  23. Aug 11, 2022 at 3:59 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    Well I ended up going deeper into the wallet than planned. After listening to helpful advice above and reading others' experiences, today I ordered the Boss Ultima kit with the add-a-leaf pack, diff drop, and SPC Upper Control Arms. I'll be able to add a steel bumper down the road. This was a tough decision, my runner-ups were Bilstein 6112/5160 or 5100s with add-a-leafs. I didn't intend to do anything with the rears but hopefully now I have more options for weight back there. Customer support at Toytec influenced my decision, Edgar was in no hurry as he shared his opinions. I wish the springs weren't red but maybe I'll paint em black. Just like Mick Jagger.
     
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  24. Aug 19, 2022 at 8:08 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    I'm reconsidering going with a more simple approach, with 5100s. Shifty, I read where a few months back you were considering OME springs with 5100s. What did you put on your AC 4wd, 2884 or 2885 springs, or neither? I'm torn between these springs, do not want a reverse rake.
     
  25. Aug 20, 2022 at 7:54 AM
    #25
    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    I actually ordered it all, and it all arrived both damaged and incomplete, so I worked with the vendor to send it back. Since then, I came into some extra cash which allows me to expand my options, like possible coilovers.

    Here's the thing.

    If you went 5100/2884 and it was too much forward-rake after settling, you could always slap in a strut spacer to cover the difference.
    If you went 5100/2885 and it was reverse-raked after settling, you could always do a simple add-a-leaf in rear to cover the difference.

    OR if you went 5100/2884 and, after installing armor you have too much forward-rake, upgrading to 2885 springs is cheap.

    If it were me, today, with my AC truck, with no plans of armor up front, I'd totally go with 2884, same if I was an AC driver with 2WD.
    If it were me, today, knowing I have the weight of v8 & 4WD *and* I planned to add front armor weight, that would probably tip me towards the 2885.

    But again, I can't stress enough, changing later between 2884/2885/2887 springs should be a no-brainer, with no gotchas. I'm almost certain the isolator is the same.
     
  26. Aug 20, 2022 at 1:01 PM
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    bulltrout

    bulltrout [OP] New Member

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    That’s what I figure, Shifty. Last night I ordered the 2884s. I should have them on with the 5100s by the end of the month.

    Which coilovers will you get?
     
  27. Aug 20, 2022 at 1:26 PM
    #27
    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    I've been eyeing the Elka 2.0 kit, which is apparently is basically the Toytec Aluma kit, I guess Elka is making it for them? There's a lot of speculation on that one. I'd love to know if it's the case or not, but can't seem to find a concrete answer. They're basically identical in appearance.

    I'd just go w/Toytec, but I hate red springs, apparently there's no other option. It's my least favorite color, and I don't want the hassle of repainting when I can pay $150 more and just get the Elka kit. Looking at a 2-3 month wait though.
     
  28. Aug 22, 2022 at 4:22 AM
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    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    They come in silver with the ultimate kit.

    20220403_191121.jpg
     
  29. Aug 22, 2022 at 6:34 AM
    #29
    shifty`

    shifty` I am the Demon Cleaner

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    I think the Ultimate is a 2.5" wide spring and Aluma is 3.0", or is it not the case?
     
  30. Aug 22, 2022 at 10:22 AM
    #30
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Member:
    #18880
    Messages:
    5,359
    Gender:
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    TX
    Vehicle:
    02 AC sr5 4wd v8
    I'm not sure. I never measured it.
     

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