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Guide: Different Types of Lifts

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by csuviper, May 24, 2014.

  1. May 24, 2014 at 10:03 PM
    #1
    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    Some Mods :) See build thread for details
    Front lift types
    1. Body Lift
    2. Spacer Lift: Above coil
    3. Spacer Lift: In-coil
    4. Coilover Lift
    5. Spindle Lift
    6. Drop Bracket Lift
    7. Long Travel Lift

    Rear Lift Types
    1. Blocks
    2. Add a leaf
    3. Extended Shackles
    4. New Leaf Springs
    5. Long Travel

    Optional Items
    1. Front Differential Drop
    2. Rear Shackle Flip
    3. Air Bags
    4. Rear Sway Bar



    FRONT LIFT TYPES

    1. Body Lift
    Spacers that are added to the connection between the cab/bed and the frame. This lift does not change anything with the suspension unless combined with another lift type. This lift does not change the clearance under the truck. It is typically installed to raise the height of the wheel well, increasing clearance for larger tire sizes. 1/2" to 3" of lift.

    2. Spacer Lift: Above coil
    Metal spacers are added to the top of the strut assembly to increase the overall length. The length increase results in a lift of the same amount. 1-3" of lift.

    [​IMG]

    3. Spacer Lift: In-coil
    Similar to the above coil but requires the coil to be pulled apart for the addition of the spacer. They do not increase the length of the strut though. They "preload" the springs or reduce the amount the factory coil can compress in order to add lift. 1.5-2.5" of lift

    [​IMG]

    4. Coilover Lift

    A new coilover is added to replace the front strut. The increased length of the coilover results in a lift height increase of the same amount. Coilovers are adjustable either segmented with ring or fully adjustable. 0-3.5" of lift.
    [​IMG]


    5. Spindle Lift
    A new taller spindle is added for lift height increase. 2-4" of lift'
    2wd4wd_2.jpg

    6. Drop Bracket Lift
    A add on or replacement frame cross bar that lowers connection of the lower control arm. This is combined with a taller spindle. A drop bracket lift is needed for lifts 4" and over. Lower end kits will have an above coil spacer for added coilover length. Higher ends kits will have replacement fully adjustable coilovers. 4-12" of lift
    [​IMG]


    Level Kit
    Level kit typically refers to just leveling the truck the easiest and cheapest way. This is typically just a ~2" front above-coil or in-coil spacer with no change to front struts or rear suspension. Can also be done with a replacement coilover.


    Suspension Lift
    2.5"-4" front lift with either spacer or coilover and rear 1"-2" lift with a block, add-a-leaf or extended shackle. You can get a level look with a suspension lift if you go 2" higher in the front than the rear with 2nd and 3rd Gens.


    REAR LIFT TYPES

    Block lifts are just what they sound like – hunks of steel or (more commonly) aluminum that rest between the axle and the leaf spring. Along with a new set of u-bolts, a rear end block lift can be used to add 1-3″ of lift. Unfortunately, despite their low cost, block lifts are the least desirable of all rear-end lift methods because they increase axle wrap…which leads to a myriad of other problems including broken blocks, broken drive shafts, busted shocks, shackles, leaf springs, etc.
    [​IMG]

    Add-a-leafs are the next best rear end lift option. While not as good as new leaf spring packs, they offer many of the same benefits. They increase lift by increasing the rear leaf spring pack stiffness, but many people find that add-a-leafs deteriorate over time. Because you’re changing the stiffness of the spring, new shocks are recommended.
    Additionally, a truck that has an add-a-leaf will almost certainly ride much rougher than a truck with a block lift or new spring pack…consider yourself warned.
    [​IMG]

    A new leaf spring pack is the best way to lift the rear-end of your Tacoma. Replacing the stock springs with stronger, stiffer after-market springs further enhances resistance to axle wrap as well as providing lift. Unfortunately, new leaf spring packs can be pricey – four to five times as much as an add-a-leaf kit. Also, just like an add-a-leaf, new shocks are needed here too.
    Of course, like most of the components described, new leaf packs can dramatically change the way your truck rides and handles. If you were to install a new leaf pack designed for racing on your daily driver, you’re probably not going to enjoy driving nearly as much as you used to.
    [​IMG]

    New shackles to gain suspension lift. Longer shackle is only applicable to 07+ tundras. First gen Tundras have an inverted shackle outside the frame rails. A longer shackle will lower the first gen Tundras rather than lift it.

    A longer shackle will decrease the shackle angle at ride height which in turn will increase the effective spring rate of the leaf springs (translating to a higher spring rate or "stiffer ride.") In addition, by using a larger shackle, you are moving the leaf spring farther away from the frame. This in turn will increase pinion angle, increased leverage on the shackle mount, and reduced uptravel (unless you allow the leaf spring to go negative arch). It's only "commonly accepted" because it's cheap and easy.
    [​IMG]




    Optional Items
    1. Front Differential Drop
    2. Rear Shackle Flip
    3. Air Bags
    4. Rear Sway Bar



    TIRE SIZE WITH LIFT KITS:
    Note: These recommendations are based on the factory wheels. Using an upgraded rim with different backspacing will allow you to increase to a wider tire.
    First Gen Tundra
    No Lift Kit
    Max tire sizes are:
    • 16″ rims: 275/70 R16 – 4/10ths wider, half-inch taller than largest factory tire size
    • 17″ rims: 265/70 R17 – one inch taller but same width as factory
    • 17″ rims: 275/65 R17 – 4/10ths wider, half-inch taller than largest factory tire size
    1.5 – 2″ Leveling Kit (or less)
    When installing a leveling kit, you might be able to fit some wider tires than what we have listed. It may require some trimming though, but it is possible.
    Max tire sizes are:
    • 16″ rims: 265/75 R16 – one inch taller but same width as factory
    • 17″ rims: 275/70 R17 – 1.5 inches taller and 4/10ths wider than factory
    3″ Lift Kit
    With a 3″ lift kit, the options continue to get better. However, the wider the tire, the greater the likelihood of trimming.
    Max tire sizes are:
    • 16″ rims: 285/75 R16 – slightly more than 2″ taller than factory, this tire is 8/10ths wider than factory as well. This width may be problematic in tight turns and/or at full suspension compression.
    • 16″ rims: 265/80 R16 – an oddball size, this tire is the same width as the factory but more than 2″ taller
    • 17″ rims: 285/70 R17 – slightly more than 2″ taller than factory, this tire is 8/10ths wider than factory as well. This width may be problematic in tight turns and/or at full suspension compression.
    Second and Third Gen Tundra
    No Lift Kit
    Max tire sizes are:
    • 18″ rims: 285/65 R18 – 5/10ths taller and 4/10ths wider than factory. Trimming may be necessary.
    • 20″ rims: 275/60 R20 – one inch taller but same width as factory
    1.5 – 2″ Leveling Kit (or less)
    When installing a leveling kit, you might be able to fit some wider tires than what we have listed. It may require some trimming though, but it is possible.
    Max tire sizes are:
    • 18″ rims: 275/70 R18 – One inch taller but same width as factory.
    • 18″ rims: 285/70 R18 – 4/10ths wider and 1.7 inches taller than factory. Trimming may be necessary.
    • 18″ rims: 295/65 R18 – 1 inch taller, 8/10ths wider than factory. Trimming is probably needed due to width.
    • 20″ rims: 285/60 R20 – 4/10ths wider and 1.5 inches taller than factory.
    3″ Lift Kit
    With a 3″ lift kit, the options continue to get better. However, the wider the tire, the greater the likelihood of trimming.
    Max tire sizes are:
    • 18″ rims: 285/75 R18 – 4/10ths wider and 2.8″ taller than factory.
    • 18″ rims: 305/70 R18 – 1.2 inches wider and 2.8″ taller than factory. There are Tundra owners running this size, but trimming is required. Replacing the stock wheels with after-market 18′s that have less backspacing is recommended.
    • 20″ rims: 285/65 R20 – 4/10ths wider, 1.6″ taller than factory.
    • 20″ rims: 305/60 R20 – 1.2 inches wider and 2.4″ taller than factory. There are Tundra owners running this size, but trimming is required (it’s a tight fit).
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  2. May 24, 2014 at 10:33 PM
    #2
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck New Member

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  3. May 24, 2014 at 10:58 PM
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    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll add to it as I have time
     
  4. May 26, 2014 at 6:58 PM
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    Sean266

    Sean266 #ThinBlueLine Staff Member

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    Good info!
     
  5. Jan 28, 2015 at 12:37 PM
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    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    Updated a little
     
  6. Jan 28, 2015 at 4:01 PM
    #6
    grundletaint

    grundletaint New Member

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    This is straight titties. Thanks!
     
  7. Jan 28, 2015 at 5:08 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Don't forget long travel for the rear (SUA) as an options for rear lift.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  8. Jan 28, 2015 at 5:13 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Also, longer shackle is only applicable to 07+ tundras.
    First gen Tundras have an inverted shackle outside the frame rails. A longer shackle will lower the truck rather than lift it.


    Also...you're wrong about shackles. A longer shackle will decrease the shackle angle at ride height which in turn will increase the effective spring rate of the leaf springs (translating to a higher spring rate or "stiffer ride.") In addition, by using a larger shackle, you are moving the leaf spring farther away from the frame. This in turn will increase pinion angle, increased leverage on the shackle mount, and reduced uptravel (unless you allow the leaf spring to go negative arch). It's only "commonly accepted" because it's cheap and easy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
    matluth likes this.
  9. Jan 28, 2015 at 5:24 PM
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    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    True, just like my tacoma. You can add a flipped shackle mount though.
     
  10. Jan 28, 2015 at 5:37 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    See my edit above about corrected info about shackles and spring rates.

    A shackle flip is a whole different ball game. Doing a shackle flip will preload the spring. Depending on rear mounting location, you'll either have just about the same ride height or slightly higher. Now paired with a preloaded spring, yeah, you'll get more droop travel, but the pack is almost flat just at ride height. Any amount of flexy and you're negative arch on the spring pack. Which means clapped out springs a lot sooner or long ass bump stops. Not only that...since every leaf pack I've seen for Tundras are progressive, since the spring is more preloaded...it's gonna ride like shit! Oh, and forget go fast wheeling or even hitting a mall speed bump at speed. No bump travel means no fun.

    Draw an imaginary line from the front hanger to the shackle where the leaf connects on an inverted shackle.
    Now pretend you have a shackle flip (which is now BELOW the frame). Draw another imaginary line where the spring would connect to the shackle.
    Line 1 is higher than line 2. Meaning shackle flip = lost uptravel and preloaded spring. Yeah you'll get some lift out of it...but again, it will ride like shit. Pair that with the fact that every single aftermarket leaf pack on the market for first gen tundras were designed for the inverted shackle. There's a lot more to leaf springs than people think.
     
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  11. Jan 28, 2015 at 5:53 PM
    #11
    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    Very true and very good info.
     
  12. Feb 12, 2015 at 5:26 PM
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    tommyboy123

    tommyboy123 New Member

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  13. Feb 12, 2015 at 5:29 PM
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    tommyboy123

    tommyboy123 New Member

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    what is down travel and full droop? Thanks tommyboy123
     
  14. Feb 12, 2015 at 5:46 PM
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    MotoTundra

    MotoTundra Adrenaline Addict

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    Nice post!
     
  15. Feb 12, 2015 at 9:58 PM
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    tat2ude39

    tat2ude39 MYota

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    Very informative... Thank you.
     
  16. Feb 13, 2015 at 4:07 PM
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    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    Down travel is the distance the wheel/tire/axle moves from normal condition to full droop.
    Full droop is the max that the suspension can move move down.
     
  17. Feb 13, 2015 at 5:18 PM
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    tommyboy123

    tommyboy123 New Member

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    Thanks appreciate your help Tommyboy123
     
  18. Mar 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM
    #18
    Archive

    Archive New Member

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    Have you ever done a shackle flip? It sounds like you haven't
    A shackle flip does not necessarily preload a spring at all, it depends on the angle of the shackle. So if it doesn't "preload" the springs, it will have no affect on the life of the spring. A shackle flip will also not decrease wheel travel at all, but you might need a longer shock, all that happens is the spring eyes move downward. Adding a longer shackle is always better, because you get larger range of motion from the same shackle angle change. That contributes to a softer ride because the shackles force on the spring is more constant instead of ramping up load on the spring quickly.
    Eric
     
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  19. Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Yes...I have, for another TW member. And we removed it a few months later. This isn't my first rodeo. However you certainly do just seem like another person on the internet who only reads what they want and gets butt hurt when they don't like what they read (even when they read things wrong).
    I measured eye to eye before and after flip. Spring length (eye-to-eye) at ride height is longer with the flip. Which means flatter...which means preloaded. And go re-read my post.
    I never said anything about adding a longer shackle.
    And I also didn't say you loose travel. I said you loose uptravel, but gain droop travel.


    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Mar 7, 2016 at 8:44 AM
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    Archive

    Archive New Member

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    The person you're describing is you, you're butt hurt. It just bothers me when people who are closed minded and adamant spread misinformation. Your cannot preload a leaf spring unless the mounting points are narrower than the free length of the spring, it is possible that was the case you experienced. Shackle angle changes the force applied to the leaf spring from the weight and/or load.

    It would be better for all of us if you learned to respond like a calm adult.
     
  21. Mar 7, 2016 at 8:46 AM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Not misinformation. Misunderstood. Preloaded at ride height. Meaning with the same laden weight at ride height, the spring is flatter.
     
  22. Mar 7, 2016 at 9:25 AM
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    TruckyTruck

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  23. Mar 7, 2016 at 12:43 PM
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    tommyboy123

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    Trucky any secrets should know before changing my own oil on my 2012 tun cm 5.7 thanks
     
  24. Mar 7, 2016 at 6:17 PM
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    TruckyTruck

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  25. Mar 7, 2016 at 7:10 PM
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    tommyboy123

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    Thanks
     
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  26. Mar 21, 2016 at 1:52 PM
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    anamator

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    Hi everyone,

    I'm new to the tundras.com forums and have some questions about lifts since I'm getting some rubbing on the frame of my truck when driving and turning the wheel sharp to the right or backing up and turning the steering wheel sharp to the right. First of all I bought this truck with this issue not knowing until after purchasing it (rubbing wasn't noticed in the test drive). I love the truck and the wheels, tires and Bushwacker fender guards are super cool and eye catching.

    My biggest concern here is damaging the truck while driving on the street or going off-road where the rubbing may become worse with the terrain. I know I have the option of simply purchasing new wheels and/or tires to fix the problem but it may be more cost effective to also lift the truck from what I've read and discovered after talking to a 4x4 shop. The wheels and tires are Toyo A/T Open Country LT305/55 R20 with Fuel 20 in. wheels.

    Any advice you can provide me that will fix the tire rubbing in a cost effective non-damaging way would be appreciated.

    Thank you
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  27. Mar 21, 2016 at 2:00 PM
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    csuviper

    csuviper [OP] Moderator Staff Member

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    You most likely need the cab mount chop: https://www.tundras.com/threads/rubbing-with-larger-tires-enter-the-relentless-fab-cmc-plates.513/
     
  28. Mar 21, 2016 at 2:12 PM
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    Sean266

    Sean266 #ThinBlueLine Staff Member

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    CMC and/or trim a little of the inner bumper, and re-tap the fender lining.
     
  29. Mar 21, 2016 at 2:29 PM
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    anamator

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    Thanks for the reply csuviper.

    That's what the 4x4 shop suggested too along with a 2" or 3" leveling kit on front. They also said that they couldn't guarantee that the leveling kit along would fix the rubbing. I'm not sure what type of leveling kit they were telling me about but I believe it was the in-coil one. I do like my trucks lifted to give them that beefy off-road look as well as larger tires but don't want to lift it too high to where the bed becomes burdensome to use and lower steps and handles needed to get in and out of it like I had when I was younger.

    From what I've read about the different types of lifts in the forum, what do you recommend that won't cause issues as described with the leveling kit lifts or make the ride stiffer?I'm guess I'm reluctant to cut the frame and don't want to cause other issues down the road.
     
  30. Mar 21, 2016 at 2:34 PM
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    anamator

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    Sean, The rubbing is only happening on the frame by the cab, it's not rubbing on the bumper or fender wells by the bumper. I'd rather lift the truck I think but realize the most cost effective fix would be the CMC. What would the next suggestion fix be?

    Only here
     
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