Drop bracket mid travel

No ... you paid more for that than a LT front end.... just no lol

 

and got exactly what we wanted . Also, not quite LT cost. Near as makes no difference I suppose - basically only saved on axles and tie rod ends, but put that $ into the 3.0 coilovers.

 

I vehemently disagree for no reason just because we like to argue on this topic

 

I disagree - we never argue about this or anything else!

 

That’s entirely false and I rebuke your statements

 

That looks like fun!!!!

Lets go do this @joonbug @831Tun

King, Icon, ADS, Fox

The clicky clack is music to my ears and now it's in surround sound with my front bypasses. I only notice them at lower speeds with my windows down though. My music or my STT Pro's must drown them out at higher speeds.

 

I’ve had 5 Tundras, all lifted. 1st gen with bracket lift, the first person to put Downey coilovers on a 1st gen crewmax(didn’t work). 12 with Fox 2.0 all around, 16 with 6112 and TC uppers, and finally the most basic MT travel setup there is, Fox extended travel front and rear 2.5 with TC uppers. This is due to all the bad influences in this thread, but screw everything else. It works so much better on and off road and is so fun to drive.

I like the sound as well, but I don’t have bypasses so maybe it would annoy. In my head it’s like hearing everything working properly.

 

Let's compare videos. For outsiders looking in, the above video is a different line on the same hill and is a way to avoid doing the main section of the hill climb, which is longer, rutted, slicker, and steeper. Here's a video of me doing the same exact hill three weeks after the above.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BjLYjOPnubo/?taken-by=spvrtan

Here are the coordinates of the two different spots:
a) 34.833938, -111.752649
b) 34.834028, -111.752833

You're right. Your long-travel setup and my mid-travel bracket setup have the same amount of clearance.

Now I'm not saying Alex couldn't have done the same spot without seeing evidence so.. if we disregard the spots and just look at sheer approach/breakover/departure angles of the climbs.. it's obvious that long-travel is better for Jeep trails.

Edit: Here's another angle of the main spot to show what the terrain looks like. It's some random video I found on YouTube and of a 4Runner but you get the idea (ie. just imagine the longer wheelbase of the Tundra)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlDpdTuoqu4

 

Is that a fact? How come I was able to do Sidewinder in Corral Canyon with a bunch of sold axle short wheelbase rigs on 40s ..and in the evening hours! I only had one hiccup on that night run where I had to winch out; I attribute it to wheeling in the dark and picking a bad line due to poor visibility because it got pitch black towards the end of the run. Here's some info on Sidewinder:
https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/2214-sidewinder-corral-canyon

https://www.instagram.com/p/BitpcRmnGr_/?taken-by=spvrtan

https://www.instagram.com/p/BicQ00rAOq2/?taken-by=spvrtan

 

Interesting.. these photos of a long-travel setup versus a mid-travel bracket setup would like to have a word with you..

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTuILQslVXy/?taken-by=osidepunker

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT9hKRVgNjz/?taken-by=spvrtan

 

Sorry for the thread spam. Just catching up on some posts. I don't frequent the forums as much anymore but I do love having some fun internet keyboard warrior back-and-forth once in a while to fan the flames for the fanboys and haters alike.

What I find really interesting is how it seems many people in this thread alone seemingly think that the only thing that effects your center of gravity is a bracket lift (ie. it raises it). There are so many other factors that can negatively or positively change it:
a) Wider trackwidth lowers it (eg. long-travel, wheel spacers, wider tires)
b) Cranking your coilovers up or down
c) Adding or removing all that gear that you carry on the trail (eg. ~150lbs of RTT raises your center alone)

Anyhow, like a few have said already.. it's your truck so build it how you want.. or experiment with a few different setups.. it's your money also.

 

For those saying Tundras have no business doing Jeep trails and that a mid-travel bracket setup can't go any further than their long-travel setup, take your long-travel truck up Wheeler Crest/Ridge and then we'll take..

Info on the trail; sign officially says it's a triple diamond but it felt like a single diamond at most thanks to my bracket setup and 40s:
http://www.theadventureportal.com/wheeler-ridge-trail/

My truck at the top of the trail at the lake..

https://www.instagram.com/p/BjqSH-2nk1G/?taken-by=spvrtan

 

Wait, how do those two pictures show which crossmember is lower? One is on flat, level ground and the other is not. They also have different tires. This comparison of yours makes no sense.

 

Honestly, if you want a somewhat accurate representation of a mid-travel bracket setup versus a long-travel setup and what each setup gets you.. look at all the photos/videos of Tundras on each setup. The vast majority of the Tundras on long-travel are doing prerunning ..and then there's this outlier of a Tundra that someone named Pluto that's on a bracket and doing mostly rockcrawling. Pluto is supposedly going to 44" tires in the future, too; word on the streets is the truck is still on the same stock CV axles and steering rack that it came with off the dealership lot. Bracket setups totally do more harm than good apparently -- or does it all boil down to the driver?

Pick your poison based on the type of trails you want to do.

 

You can't be serious.. or maybe you really can't wrap your ahead around it with common sense.. or you don't know what part is the crossmember.

Terrain level and tire size has nothing to due with my counter-argument against the original argument that a bracket setup lowers the crossmember more than stock.

 

What would that common sense be? The pictures are taken at different angles, probably different distances, and one is on flat level ground while the other is not and both trucks are on different size tires. How does it make sense to compare the two photos together? You offered no other answers for whether drop brackets affect the clearance of the crossmember other than two pictures that can't be fairly compared. How does a lift on its own allow a bigger tire to be used? Won't the larger tire have to go somewhere as the suspension cycles? Isn't the real problem clearance between the tire and body/frame components?

 

Again.. you need to understand what part of the truck is the crossmember and where it lies in relation to the ground regardless of terrain level.

One last attempt to educate you..



..look at the clearance from the ground. They're the exact same. In the original arguer's defense, there is one such company out there that makes a bracket kit for our trucks where the crossmember actually does hang lower than stock: Pro Comp. The kit I have, which is from BDS, does not because the bracket's lowest point goes straight across unlike PC's kit that has an ugly dip for some reason. Feel free to do your own Google search for images to compare the two.

 

It's interesting that you're being condescending in a post where you admit that there are drop bracket kits that reduce ground clearance. Have you ever actually measured the changes drop brackets have on clearance? Also, what's the point of your 2nd grade MS Paint JPEG? Wouldn't raising the center of gravity still have a deleterious effect on handling? You still never answered how comparing two different photos taken at different angles, distances, where one is on level ground and the other is under suspension articulation where both trucks have different tire sizes can be accurately be compared? Can you do this? Would you like a lesson in optics? Wouldn't a picture of two trucks side by side be a much more accurate comparison? Maybe even take a ruler out and actually measure any potential differences? You also didn't answer my question on component clearance. You're also not the one and only "outlier" who goes over some rocks from time to time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGSZGOgfUbA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcHqlpVsPAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzAky6mcOX4&list=PL0AaMmaVOKx2Z1devNMP8tD0Gojj8VBJR&index=3&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24cALOVaD8U&index=4&t=0s&list=PL0AaMmaVOKx1F8W_ulA9htOFeCZJ86pkQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYnG0tRNYPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk93vjyO9yc

 

Seriously go back and read the original post that my post was quoting and then read my post that you're getting confused on. The tangent topic was about the crossmember specifically being lower than stock. That is all. For the rest of your questions, read the rest of the thread because they were answered already -- aside from taking out a ruler to get fractions of an inch in measurements because that doesn't matter if you can't even use common sense (ie. general geometry and visual awareness) to understand the general clearance gains. I'd ask you if you'd like a lesson in reading comprehension and context awareness but you'd probably read right past this sentence, too.

You evidently have a habit of not being able to grasp the context of a post or comprehend said content. I was talking about being an outlier a bracket setup Tundra that goes crawling; keywords being "bracket setup". I also never said I was the only outlier.

 

What common sense? What "general geometry" and visual awareness? Since you have such a great understanding of suspension design why not answer my questions for all to gain a greater understanding? My questions are pretty simple and people frequently use photos disingenuously to exaggerate or illustrate certain characteristics without accurately depicting differences or specifications. There's no clearance gain if the bracket is in the same spot or lower as you admitted is true with at least one kit. The effect of raising the center of gravity is still deleterious on handling. The larger tire will still hit something as the suspension cycles unless bumpstops are adjusted (travel reduction) or metal is cut out of the way. What if most people who go off-road don't use drop brackets because there are better ways of fitting larger tires?

What clearance would you be talking about other than clearance above the axles? What else matters if you're crawling over rocks? I fit LT285/70R18 Nitto Exo Grapplers without drop brackets. If I wanted to fit larger tires I would cut fenders over large sections of my frame. I'd love to see you explain how a drop bracket offers gains in travel. Please begin.

 

It's clear that there's just no getting through to you no matter how many ways I try to explain it but I'll try one last time and then I'm done replying to you because you're not paying attention. I never said there was crossmember clearance gain; I said that there's no clearance loss with a bracket lift designed right in the same way there's no travel loss with a long-travel suspension designed right. I also never argued that lifting the truck didn't negatively effect the center of gravity. Read this post from earlier in this thread that you seem to have skipped..

Obviously a person with the right ingenuity and willingness to chop up their truck can fit larger tires without a lift. Again, not arguing that. A bracket lift just makes it easier to run the larger tires while at the same time providing approach, breakover, and departure angle gains.

To finish you off, since you want to start another tangent argument on how a bracket lift offers gains in travel..

1) I never argued that it did.
2) You clearly don't know the difference between a lift and suspension. There's a reason why the terms as follows: bracket lift, body lify, spacer lift, mid-travel suspension, and long-travel suspension. It's not a "bracket suspension" or "mid-travel lift" and if you really can't understand why then all is lost on you; here's some help..

You lift a vehicle to gain height. You modify a vehicle's suspension to change effect travel range and/or velocity. A bracket lift with mid-travel suspension (eg. upgraded coilovers to match the lift geometry) is still a mid-travel suspension.

..and done.

 

Height on its own does nothing but bad things. Adding the larger tire is what helps. You proclaim your heavy cast-iron drop brackets (low toughness, low ductility) to be just as capable or better than mid-travel/long travel setups and wonder why people wouldn't ask questions? I'm paying attention, you just aren't actually explaining anything in real detail. Comparing two different photos of trucks on different tires on its own is not an explanation. This is dishonest and makes no sense. Your argument is to replicate one of my 3rd grade experiments in MS Paint and tell me to look at some photos on Google? Do you not understand how dumb that sounds? Also, you were the one who thought you could argue that a drop bracket adds travel. Please illustrate this.

 

Last I checked, if a truck with front bumper clearance of 10" comes across a flat/steep-faced rock wall that is 15" tall, it'll hit the bumper. A truck with a 10" lift, for example, has the extra 10" of bumper clearance and will obviously go over the rock wall. I'm pretty sure not hitting your bumper because you have extra height is a good thing.

For the rest of your post.. you are so incredibly dense that it's honestly amazing. I quite literally explained in the simplest form, and in several other forms, that lifting your truck is different than modifying the suspension.

 

Anyhow, I've said as much as I could and if people can't understand the benefits that a bracket LIFT realistically nets you, then they're a total loss as far as educating them goes. I never once said a long-travel SUSPENSION is bad. In fact, for reasons such as wanting to do ridiculous shit with my truck because it's my cash, I'm already saving up for stacking a long-travel SUSPENSION on top of my existing bracket LIFT for them to work together. That includes designs for a custom fabricated spindle, custom coilovers, moving from 4.88 gears to 5.29, and going up to 42-44" tires.

A LIFT has it's pros/cons/potentials and the same goes for SUSPENSION. I swear I feel like I'm making too much sense for people that it's confusing them.

It really is quite simple as the following..

LIFT = clearance, height ..which equates to shit like going over rocks or running larger tires easier.
SUSPENSION = travel, velocity ..which equates to going faster easier among other benefits.

One last time: a LIFT is not the same as SUSPENSION. They work together in many aspects but also do completely different things.

I'm done with this thread as far as posting goes so feel free to make your jabs and try to downplay all the sense I've made. I'll probably come around to reading the posts eventually for the hilarity.

Also, I never meant to hate on anyone's builds or the person themselves; Alex was an awesome dude the one time I met him in person so I have nothing against him and his truck is sick.

To everyone else and the original poster, it's your truck, your money, and your time. Do your own research. Don't be afraid to try shit and go against the grain but, most importantly.. do whatever the hell you want. You can throw all the cash you possibly can at your truck; however, at the end of the day, a significant portion of how a truck performs offroad boils down to how much skill the driver has -- and how tuned they are with their rig's capabilities and handling.

Edit: To those that kept bring up Ultra4 comparisons.. can an Ultra4 rig keep up in the Baja 1000 with trophy trucks? No. Can an Ultra4 rig keep up with rock buggies at events like W.E. Rock's? No. In the realm of extreme offroading and 4x4s, the Ultra4 is a "jack of all trades and master of none." The same goes for what I'm doing with my truck. Will it go as fast as a non-lifted long-travel truck? No. Will it rockcrawl as easy as a Jeep? Probably not. So it's clear the goal with Pluto is to try and follow the same ideology of Ultra4 rigs but at a much more amateur level.

 

So 4" on 35s is the cats meow? And I thought I went cheep lol

 

I knew this one was going to bring out the chest thumping in people.

Just curious, @Spvrtan : Have you ever weighed your truck?

 

Wow. @Spvrtan Just wow. I'm not going to respond to you directly. I will address everyone else.

This thread started off as a question regarding bracket lift performance compared to other suspension lifts. I will summarize my opinions.

If you are going to do true off roading, true back country exploration, or even go playing at OHV's, then a bracket lift is not recommended. I don't care what kind of trail it is. I don't care if its technical rock crawling, forest road, or GOFAST desert trails. A bracket lift has so many cons you would be a fool to spend your money on one.

Now. I have been wheeling more than once a month since 2013. I have traveled some of the most remote terrain in the US. I have done it solo and I have done it with many friends and all different kinds of trucks. If you want to read the story of how I started, read this: https://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-build-logs/369033-truck-osidepunker.html

I have wheeled with trucks that have many different kinds of setups, stock, MT, bracket lifts, LT. There are only 3 formulas for building a proper suspension. Anything else is not on my list of smart ways to spend your money:

1. stock suspension with upgraded tires. Cheapest but will still get you places.
2. MT suspension (Fox/King/ADS/Icon). $5k-6k and will be ultra-reliable and get you across 90% of the obstacles you will encounter
3. LT suspension. $20-25k and will be ultra-reliable and get you across 90% of the obstacles you will encounter. Plus, you will be able to cover ground twice as fast and get to camp twice as fast as anybody else. You will have increased performance on EVERY type of terrain and ANY type of obstacle.

Its literally that simple. If you put a bracket lift, or a spacer lift, or blocks, or anything else that I didn't mention, you are a fool and wasting your money. If you don't believe me, take your bracket lift out on the trail and let go wheeling. I will show you some amazing terrain, I will hand you a delicious beer, I will make gourmet food on the trail with you, I will talk trucks all night with you, and I will wait (hours sometimes) at every turn for you to catch up, and I will even help you when your truck breaks.

 

@osidepunker : Is that $20-25K mark if you do installation yourself, or is that having someone else install?

 

Thats the full otd price having a fabricator do it. That 2.5 Fox shocks with bypasses and bumps, bed cage, fenders, everything related to just the suspension.

Does not include tires, bumpers, frame modifications etc

 

Oh and that price can vary drastically depending on who is doing your install. Also, that price is a few years old, it may be different today