Drop bracket mid travel

I have done a lot of reading on this subject, but it has been tough to find the level of specificity I'm seeking. Could you speak to those limits?

More pointedly...

1) What parts broke or didn't perform properly (i.e. including "death wobble," suspension misalignments, or whatever)?

2) Have those parts been upgraded on recent versions to prevent this? Or, perhaps, did you make any modifications to fix these issues (besides removing the kit )?

3) How did you break, damage, or otherwise find the limits of those parts? Please be specific if it was whoops, jumps or anything that could be described by us mortals as "prerunning" .


More hypothetically (or perhaps in the original spirit of this thread)...

Consider a BDS 7" kit, with coilovers set to ~7" of total lift (i.e. establishing the same static LCA angle as a non-bracket truck lifted 3"), coachbuilder OTRs to correct steering angle issues, and TC UCAs to allow further droop. This technically becomes a MT system (~12"+ inches of travel), correct? Big picture, the only functional differences are that the frame and bumpers are now 3-4" higher off the ground, and one faces a likely decrease in durability (at the crossmember) against hard hits?


@osidepunker and @n2deep and @M C M
for good measure

 

After wheeling with Bruce a good amount, I'd assume the limits he mentions are speed related. He's noticeably faster now than he was on his bracket, but that's to be expected anytime you go from MT to LT.

Just from wheeling with a wide variety of Tundras, I'd say for outright speed through any terrain, slowest to fastest would be bracket, MT, LT.

Your durability at the crossmember is one place to consider a weak point, but that could possibly be counteracted with links from the crossmember to the frame (at the cost of added weight).

Another durability point to consider is the longer spindle. Most of us that run hard on MT and LT add spindle gussets to strengthen the stock spindles - longer spindles will be that much more prone to lateral forces on the tire. Possibly rectified with large gussets, but again at the expense of weight.

Reading back through what I wrote, I don't think I answered your question per se, since Bruce didn't actually run the bracket to failure - I think it was a comfort and confidence decision. @papasmurf ?

 

So yeah... basically kevins got it. I never pushed the BDS kit to full failure. The two main issues with BDS is relating to the spindles. the spindles are weaker than stock due to being ductile iron (also very heavy). So in relation to adding gussets thats very difficult to weld onto ductile iron. it can be done, but is very complicated. Secondly the steering angles and tie rod connecting points. It slightly modifies the steering angles which adds excess stress on the steering rack.

so yes i go much harder and faster now on LT but as to be expected.

as far as what broke. i had a minor fender bender on the freeway and had to dodge a car and rode up a jersey wall about halfway up and bent both spindles which is highly surprising. The other issue was i was probably getting small bends in the spindles offroad because after every trip id have to get an alignment because I was throwing off the camber and toe. which i since havent had problems with, switching to stock spindles reinforced.

I had upgraded the tie rods to CB tie rods, didnt change much. Sadly the same issues as mentioned above still existed.

As far as limits i cant say anything specific in relation to the whoops, high speed etc. what i will say is a bracket lift has its purpose, you really want to go hard, build MT or LT

all depends on use, and driving style. Im not saying dont buy it. I actually have my gen2 BDS spindles and whole kit sitting on a shelf if you are interested.

and yes a BDS kit with coilovers extended travel will be a MT on BDS. Also the UCA's are a good idea, get ones with heims though for extra adjustment abilities.

 

Thank you both for the great info! I have never done any wheeling that wasn't in 4Low--4Hi was always for just getting through to the fun stuff . So, I am just trying to understand my options as they apply to the type of wheeling that I have always done (and am actually considering whether I'd be interested in the higher-speed stuff).

Thanks again!

 

When we go find camp, I’m not usually happy unless 4lo is required to get there, so I totally understand your point about the 4lo stuff.

But,

 

Drop bracket mid travel... Reminds me of a T4R i saw with a fabtech drop bracket and TC LT kit. Looked cray cray.

 

would love to see pics of that! LOL

 

Not a 4Runner but there's this..

 

Well interesting...

So that’s a thing

 

Whooda thunk???

 

Don't forget about this DB/LT FJ....

 

Don't forget this taco from TTORA either....

 

I remember seeing her ask questions on tacomaworld about if this could work. As you’d expect, she definitely got a mixed bag of responses.

I’d be interested in seeing how these do off road. Anyone have pics or video of these things in action?

 

I didn't talk to the guy with the T4R DB LT combo, but it was beat. Not daily driver, unkept beat, but trail damage beat. Looked like he'd done the Hammers. So I guess either he goes hard, or the suspension sucks so much that it beats his truck. I wanted to wait for the guy to come back, but it was a big Toyota truck gathering and a very busy restaurant, so I really didn't know when he was coming back to his truck.

 

I think that one of your call-outs is a little too subjective.
Are we talking:


Or:

 

thank god this thread is still going. i need the distraction.

 

and lets bring this back again! LOL

 

serious question is it possible to get the same amount of wheel travel out of a drop bracket as a mid travel setup? obviously not a spacer drop bracket

 

ummm maybe with a proper extended travel drop bracket coilover.... as well as CB tie rods to allow more free travel of the outer tie rod

 

i forgot you will also need aftermarket UCA's as well

 

hmm actual tech lol its been awhile. I haven't seen a chart or listing of different lifts, bracket or no bracket and there expected wheel travel gains or loss. long travel gets in the 17ish range in the front I want to say?

 

oh yes def upper ucas also

 

depends on a few factors but 16-17" for LT

 

that's pretty solid. I am really curious how much the old man emu gives you since I'm lookin at that kit while I'm fairly broke. I think my leveling kit hasn't helped my cvs or rack and pinion. so maybe ill have some numbers for that in the nearish future.

 

We decided on a full 30ft travel trailer, so I bought an F250 instead of a Tundra (I know ). But, I got an email notification for this thread haha.

Anyways, it did actually occur to me today that a quality drop-bracket lift (i.e. a "drop-bracket mid travel" lift) has the exact same effect as lifting a solid front axle suspension. You don't gain clearance between the wheels, but if the clearance gained literally everywhere else had no benefit, nobody would bother.

Of course, like a lot of things, it is still important to put things in context. Two different guys talking about being "hardcore offroaders" could have completely different situations in mind, and thus completely different priorities. One guy could be racing around over jumps and whoops, and genuinely need a low-slung truck with 800lb/in springs and 7 shocks on each corner, while the other guy really could need maximum breakover angles and the softest possible springs. And, they could both be correct.