Blackstone ATF Report!!!

Because in 2019 when Toyota was forced to change to new AC refrigerant they were also forced to change to a new condenser. The atf cooler and ac condenser were integrated on the 10-18 Tundras, in 2019 when the change was made to new refrigerant and condenser Toyota further tested the need for a stand alone atf cooler. They found that with the advances made in ATF fluid since 2010 that a stand alone cooler was no longer needed. So to put it simply, atf fluid has advanced enough in the last 10 years that a cooler is not needed anymore.

 

Yes I know about the condenser and new refrigerant. Can you provide the documentation that “Toyota further tested the need for a stand alone atf cooler. They found that with the advances made in ATF fluid since 2010 that a stand alone cooler was no longer needed”? I think we would all like to read up on that.

Also, I mentioned the fluid before and was told it’s the exact same since 07. Can you also provide the documentation that they changed the formula and that it’s more advanced now? My understanding was that they would not release specifics as it’s proprietary. I think we’d all like to read about that too.

Check posts 96 and 97 in the below thread. There’s more to it than just the fluid.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/transmission-temperatures.43046/page-4#post-1927848

 

If that was the case wouldn’t Toyota spec different transmission fluid for the new truck as compared to what they spec’d for the old trucks? I don’t know what Toyota considers normal practice when updating fluids but I think if they made that big of a change in the transmission fluid I would think it would have been noted our called WS2 or something.

 

Another observation, I’ve been driving my dads 2013 tundra around the last 3 days while my truck was in the shop and they definitely changed the shifting behavior of the trucks. My truck definitely seems to favor lock up a lot more than his truck does. For instance when passing on the freeway under moderate throttle my truck holds lock up his truck doesn’t.
Example- I’m cruising at 75 and push to 85 at around 25% throttle my truck stays in 6th locked his truck would stay in 6th but unlock.

Another observation- my truck would downshift to 5th and lock up over moderate hills his truck would stay in 6th and unlock.

this might just be from different learning done by the transmission computer, or it might. Be a strategy by Toyota to manage temps. Idk so take that for what it’s worth

 

toyota is on record saying shift mapping changes supported removing the additional cooler.

your experience matches mine.

my 19 chases lock up line a fiend.

 

Don’t forget this is the factory fill, so the wear metals will be higher than average just from the break-in cycle. Plus, it is just an average. By definition some counts will be higher, yet normal.

Yes, lots of people thought the fluid was toast. Quite a few chicken littles on this topic

 

Question remains, was the OP fluid the same fluid done in the analysis. More to come...

 

That makes me happy I installed a cooler. I work in automation (Mostly plc programming of machinery) and I’m always asked to make poor quality equipment work better, my response is “I can make bad equipment work better with a good program, but I can never make it work as good as good equipment”

 

I think that would be a great idea!

2 things that would be important to this:

1. We need to do an analysis on an unused Toyota ATF WS fluid. I would be curious to see it in unused stock form. Get a baseline of add package, viscosity, flash point, etc....

If no one volunteers, I would be happy to get a quart and pay to have it shipped to Blackstone.

2. We need another one ran with more miles. I have 49,500 on my 2019 Platinum but they have been pretty easy miles, rarely pulling a trailer.

 

My truck has 52,xxx miles on it and I’m going to do a drain and fill at 55, mostly highway with some towing mixed in everything from 1000lbs to north of 8000. I also happen to have a Blackstone sample kit from my land cruiser I never used. It will be around the end of the month before this happens.

 

The only issue is I installed my cooler at 48,000 miles and added 1 1/2 quarts of fresh atf, so that will tant my sample.

 

There is no documentation that I know of, I am just by the word of Mike Sweers who stated that Toyota did extensive testing at Davis Dam after the cooler was removed and found that the temps were still well within spec.

 

Thanks to everyone's opinions on both threads. I drive an older 5.9 Cummins Ram and have shopped hard looking for a potential replacement. So far I haven't found anything that makes upgrading to something newer justified, IMO, but the Tundra is the only one that tempts me. My truck is a four speed and it suits me just fine. I like the thought of the 6 speed on a Tundra, more without getting overly complicated. When buying my 5.9 a big draw was that it had been out and proven a long, long time. I feel the same way about the "antiquated" 5.7 Tundra with it's 6 speed tranny. I'm going to wait and see if they don't ad some cargo capacity in 2022 that would tip the scales in favor of upgrading trucks to me. Going from 3,300+#s of payload to sub 2,000 is a hard one to take. Anyway, thanks all, I'm feeling good about the Tundra 6 speed now, as is, no cooler needed for my wants.

 

Sure...Sticky away!

The numbers are pure Greek to me and I'd love to learn more. Still waiting to hear back from Blackstone...I'm sure I included the particulars so not sure how they missed it but they have them again...

It still amazes me that the auto and ATF industry has been striving to keep temperatures under 200° and all of a sudden Toyota discovers 240°++ is just fine... Plus it's a obvious cost cutting measure with no benefit to the consumer.....

BTW I know people are joking about Toyota having some hand in the results but note Blackstone "lost" the particulars and has no clue what the sample came from as far as their response indicates....

 

After doing a little search and pulling form my limited time with OBD/Fusion app, I have never seen 257° on the highway , most recently a 3 1/2 run to upstate NY. Unless I'm missing something about "final lockup" ?

 

Here's Blackstone's revised report based on more details about my Tundra... Even better than the original...?

 

Damn @Greg Marmalard - Mandy would be proud of your ATF! Excellent report.

 

I called toyota corp in plano tx, this is what they told me.

 

It has one.

Once the ATF is higher temp than the coolant, heat is removed from the ATF into the coolant.

The puck is dual function based off temp.

They, the sticker, etc in reality did not lie. Just because you, the user, have a different "view" or definition is not Toyotas fault.

 

Thanks for the info, kinda makes you wonder about the head mechanics knowledge. Seems he better re-read his manual.

 

Flash point is at 410?

 

This is great news, thanks OP for submitting your fluid for analysis. Seems we will need a bunch more heavy tows here with higher mileages to do this before we either relax, or continue the panic. Thanks again for the test.

 

My coolant temp yesterday 195.6° , atf pan 201°, TC 214° , it was 65° out . Held pretty steady for 25 - 30 minutes 35 t0 45 mph .

 

Wow , I just checked one sticker online for 2021 and they no longer mention engine and transmission coolers.

 

My cooler should be getting installed in the next 2 weeks, and I'll have @ 18,000 miles and very little towing done. Is there interest if I get a sample sent to Blackstone to compare to Greg's??

 

Great test results. Scientific proof the new method of cooling is effective.

Thanks!

 

agreed on oil temp. The cooler has some fins on it. Otherwise it isn’t much bigger that the trans cooler.

 

You say that like Toyota is the only manufacturer nickle and diming us out of features... Take a look at the 2019-2020 Sierras for example.