Blackstone ATF Report!!!

Howdy,

Somehow the particulars of my Tundra got lost in the shuffle so I'm waiting to hear back what they think with specifics but here it is!

Comments welcome as it's Greek to me other than they said it fine!

Note I did some long heavy hot towing this summer in Tow Haul in D...

 

How many miles on the transmission fluid that you had tested?

 

Thank you, that’s pretty much what I expected.

 

About 18,000. A good 3000 towing a 7000lb Airstream trailer this summer. And maybe 2000 last year with a 5000lb version....Hot days, long grades...

 

Awesome ,thank you much for doing this

 

I’m shocked! LOL kidding. @Greg Marmalard if you have the ability could you please check the ATF thermal degradation number?

 

Was it without an aftermarket cooler?

 

If this is your first test then it will be your baseline. At next test interval, compare follow up test with baseline for any abnormal/significant changes of ppm mineral content in oil.

 

Yes!

This is a sample from BEFORE I installed the cooler!

So this represents ATF with NO COOLER under harsh conditions....other than the stock heat exchanger....

G

 

If you have OBD Fusion, or Techstream, maybe some others you can see the value. Basically a time at temp countdown that shows proof of thermal degradation.

 

Thanks for doing this @Greg Marmalard

Blackstone says atf was in pretty good shape ...

Even though there is only 18K on this ATF may be Toyota knows what they are doing since 5000 miles of the 18K was towing in "hot days, long grades".

 

Please post this on bobistheoilguy.com

 

Watching for more analysis.

 

OP are you going to email them more info so they can update it?

 

Interesting Flash point 410 F.

 

Flash point has nothing to do with operation in vehicle, more about storage, handling, and transportation. The temp required to give off enough gas to burn when exposed to an ignition source if left open in a room basically. It is a high value though.

 

Well that is interesting..... It came back exactly how I thought it would. Not really showing much in the analysis. From someone that has spent 15+ years in the oil and petroleum industry I figured the Toyota fluid would be just fine. Only time will tell what happens with the increased heat.....

Flashpoint is interesting. I would be curious to see some analysis of other trans fluids as that does seem high.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time and money to test your ATF OP.

Would've been better to post this on the original post you created a couple weeks back though.

To me this is everything but conclusive. Did anybody really expected the ATF to be cooked after "only" 18K miles and "just" 3K of them being towing? That really would've been outrageous, not a chance this was going to be the case.

I'm still pro ATF cooler for those who doesn't have it, and I believe that basing the decision of installing it, on these results, is a bit premature. IMHO

 

Blackstone Laboratories Analysis -brought to you by Toyota

 

So does this mean we 19 post owners dont need a trans cooler now, wow so glad i dont need to spend $1000s.

 

Bingo

 

Yes , based on some previous comments and opinions , not only the oil would be burnt , expectations was transmission to fall apart in 10k , well that report proved that the oil is still under good condition knowing what it went through from heavy towing by OP.
I never reached more then 235 myself for short period on converter towing ,so I will not be worrying much knowing what OP put the truck through.
I will be having the dealer drain and fill each 30k and call it a day

 

No. You need a cooler that might void your warranty, and should probably switch ATF fluid also to further the chance of voiding your warranty. Lol.

 

Hmm, I think I'll wait until I see the revised analysis with the Universal numbers set to the correct fluid. For engine oil, the first 4-6 elements on the list are wear metals. You want those low. The remaining elements are all the cool chemistry chit the oil manufacturer adds to enhance the base oil's properties. If the oil is still good, I'd say those numbers should be higher than the Universal numbers based on the low miles. Or at least very close to the Universal numbers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those look low. Plus we don't know what the viscosity numbers should be....

 

Copper is a tad high compared to 'averages'. Wonder what that wore off of..... Hmmm.

 

I appreciate the OP sending this in. However, I don't think this says much as there is only 18k on the oil. Does anyone really expect ATF to go bad that soon? Would be interesting to see what the oil looked like at 50K or more.

 

I don’t buy this either with 18k miles. Try again when at couple 100k or couple millions.

Also, need to look into the Chief engineer’s interest in Blackstone Industries as stockholder or chairman.

 

Again, unbiased opinion here.. I am only following this stuff out of curiosity.. I do not tow anything yet and likely won't with any significance in the foreseeable future.

I do find it a little funny that both trains of thought are pretty much telling themselves whatever they need to in order to confirm their initial opinion. I have no doubt in my mind that no matter what the results of this or any analysis done, no matter the conditions or dependent variables, those in the cooler camp would still be pounding the table saying evidence is inconclusive and a cooler should still be installed. On the flip side those who think the cooler is vestigial will use any positive confirmation that they are right..

I have not the slightest clue on the mechanics of the ATF or the property of the specific being used. An unbiased view of the information presented, in the state of this ATF at the time the sample was pulled, would suggest that the cooler is not necessary.. I have no doubt that samples exist out there that would suggest the opposite. If you are looking for a truly viable answer, it will not be found in the results of a single analysis. As always, I'm sure the real answer falls somewhere in the middle. I would like to hope that the Toyota engineers put in the leg work to find that middle ground and make the call on whether the component is truly necessary. Meh

 

I have an 18 so I have the stock cooler, but if I had a 19/20 I’d be wondering why Toyota engineers thought the tundra needed a trans cooler for 12 MY (07-18), then the same trans and drivetrain suddenly didn’t need it anymore in 19. Some have speculated that they adjusted some setting inside the transmission, but there was a couple of techs in the atf cooler thread that said they found 0 evidence of any adjustments. One post said Toyota will usually issue something internally if there was a change so the techs know about it, and nothing has been said.

 

Be good to know the total acid number and total base number is over time.

I did a long trip across the state yesterday. I noticed that at 248 converter temps there seems to be a strategy that results in very fast drop in temp down to pan temps.

Pan temps were steady in range of 222-228.

this was ambients of 82 to 87.

my previous data was in 105F and high loads and I had only seen pan temps rise 8 degrees.

looks to me like ambient temps don’t make as much of a difference as you’d think.

and it looks like there is a lot of strategy in transmission mapping for managing temps.

my concern over this issue is decreasing rapidly.