Bad noises.

Hey guys, I'm new here.
I've got a 2005 Double Cab 4x4 with a 4.7, and I have had a constant high-pitched, undulating whining noise (that seems to be coming from the rear end) for several months. You can't hear it when you get up to speed, unless you have the vertical sliding rear window open, but it's always there.
It also, on occasion makes a horrible knocking noise- usually only for a short time (maybe less than 30 seconds). I don't know if the sounds are connected to the same issue, or completely separate.
My mechanic shop worked extensively to try to find the issue, and honed in on it being the axle shaft bearing in agreement with a TSB they found about an issue in 04-06 Sequoias (131372). They said the parts from Toyota are over $2500, and they tried to buy an aftermarket kit (considerably cheaper) but the parts were not a match. They tried again with a different kit, and it was wrong again. That second one was their last hope, and they ended up telling me it's not something they are willing to deal with and that I would need to go the dealer. This is cost prohibitive, and I want to make sure I know what I'm dealing with. If I could get the parts off of another vehicle, I have mechanics that would do the work for me, but this particular shop won't. I've been using these guys for over 15 years, and although I trust them, I'm not feeling confident enough in the diagnosis to go to the dealer, or pursue used parts. The description in the TSB did not really sound like what I was experiencing, and I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of this issues or had any experience with it.
As I'm sure is quite evident, I'm not a mechanic at all. I can add more info when I have that TSB and last invoice in front of me, but I needed to go ahead and get this posted. I haven't been driving the truck for the last 2 months, and I really want to get it back.

 

Hey, welcome to the forum. In general, here's all the stuff most people need to know: https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-you-wanna-buy-just-bought-a-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/

There are a few things to kill these trucks, @PabloLJ, one is failing to do timing belt service every 10yr/100k miles. The other is using non-OEM lower balljoints OR failing to replace the lower balljoints proactively at 100-125k miles. Radiator is another item you need to replace proactively on roughly the same mile schedule. The rest is usually repairable, and it shouldn't cost $2k+ for the repairs.

If the noise is a droning "wah wah wah wah wah" noise, it's more likely a wheel bearing, but it could also be pinion, although I'd expect more of a howling sound from pinion. Wheel bearings are a bitch to get right, btw, and a lot of shops can't seem to press them properly.

I need to know more about the knocking noise to say anything about that, like how/when it happens. We know from experience with 4WD that knocking/clunking can be caused if an owner fails to grease all components of the driveshaft at every oil change (or every 5k miles, whichever comes first). However, clunking, howling, screeching, and vibration (typically felt in the seat, not the steering wheel) can also come from u-joints, which are one of the things that need the greasing, with a grease gun.

The one major mistake you made is this, from my lifelong of wrenching and ownership of dozens of cars. There are two times you absolutely NEVER use a general mechanic:

• A/C and heat related: Always go to a shop that only does automotive air-conditioning, specifically.
• Driveline related: Always go to a driveshaft shop that specializes in this work, specifically.

The same probably goes for engine rebuilding, but our engines typically don't need rebuilding. I always recommend using a shop that specializes in Toyota, also. They are out there, usually run by guys who got tired of seeing customers get swindled at the dealership. Always avoid using chain stores and "generalist" mechanics where you can, especially with these trucks.

That said, another bit of info: The dealership isn't there to fix your vehicle these days. They're here to hand you painful estimates that make you want to trade in your vehicle, so they can make the repairs internally, make profit on selling you a new vehicle, and make profit reselling your nice, repaired vehicle. If you choose to have them repair, they're going to do three four things to make sure to milk every last penny out of you:

1. They will always include extra things which aren't a bad idea, but aren't truly necessary at the moment, just to get the price of the quotation up.
2. Use only OEM parts (which is a good thing!) but they'll charge you full MSRP on all parts, and potentially add a surchage on top of it, even though anybody on this forum can buy the parts direct from Toyota for sometimes 50% less han MSRP.
3. They will concatenate service hours, so if you have two related jobs that require the same parts to be removed, one job is 4 hours, the other is 6 hours (10 hours total), but it will actually take them 5 hours to finish the work, they charge you for 10 unless you know to raise hell.
4. They will almost always find something else wrong to fix in the process, which will jump the bill another 10% - 100% or more.

This is why many people refer to dealerships as "stealerships". There are exceptions to the rule, but many dealerships don't hire the kind of service managers who favor the customer, because the maintenance department is a big revenue generator for them.

Anyway, all that to say:

• I recommend you go to Google and search for "driveshaft shop near me".
• Find a shop that has 4 stars or more with 20-30 reviews, read the reviews, pick the one that you feel is best.
• Call the top stores and ask if they'll give a free estimate, "I think I have a bad bearing or joint or something in my drive line"
• Get estimates from 2 stores if you can, unless the 1st store is reasonable (usually this type of shop doesn't fuck around)

But by all means, tell us more about the clunk.

 

Wow! I would have paid for this kind of help. That was so fast and very thorough info to get me started. I will most definitely share more, but I wanted to at least start by saying thank you for your time and generosity with your knowledge.

 

A few notes:
Truck mileage is over 270. Just thought I should include that.
I have had experience with at least 4 bad wheel bearings in my life, including in another 1st gen. I'm pretty confident that is not what I'm dealing with-- at least for the constant whine. The sound is a distinct high whine, (almost like the pattern of an emergency vehicle siren, but once per revolution, so the speed obviously changes). Not a low droning sound.
I think it's unrelated, but my lower ball joints were changed in Feb, right before the sounds started. (I'm thinking the parts were OEM, but I'll find out). The rack and pinion was also replaced at that time, since it was literally falling apart.
I have been completely unable to find any rhyme or reason to when the knocking sound happens. I am pretty analytical, I think, and I drive many different trucks (with regular mechanical issues), as I manage for a tree service with 11 trucks on the road, so I would think if weren't pretty random, I'd have caught onto a pattern by now. It has increased in frequency, but for a long time, I would only hear the sound about once a week, or so. I did seem to notice it several times in the same location, right after making the left turn onto my street off of a short highway drive. The ground is flat (like everywhere here). The street curves in a half moon shape, continuing to the left, but only for about 300 ft. I've tried to replicate this, or cause the noise at other times, and I can't. So, I'm not able to make sense of why it happens there so often. Sometimes the knocking continues till I pull up to a stop at my house, but I never notice it when I leave next.
I don't feel the knocking in the steering wheel. I guess maybe I could say I feel it in the seat. Sometimes it is subtle, and sometimes it feels like something is completely falling apart in my drivetrain. But then it just goes back to normal like nothing ever happened.
When I can, I'll try to list other stuff that has been done to the truck, before this issue, and in an effort to fix it.

I'm going to research shops more, but it looks like I'll have to drive an hour and a half or so. I'm okay with that, though.

 

I'm guessing it's pinion or u-joint based on your updated info. A competent driveline shop will know very quickly what the problem is, and I know the two good ones here in Atlanta won't charge to jump in the truck and drive with you for 5 minutes, or throw it onto a rack and test quickly, as long as the shop isn't jammed up with cars. Usually everyone I've sent after 3pm gets a free diagnostic.

On the knocking sound you describe, if it was a 2WD I would tell you to check the transmission crossmember. There was a TSB but it was only for 2WD trucks. If it only happens while turning, it could be anything related to turning (which is suspicious given the recent steering work and LBJ update). In my experience, CV axles will have a repetitive click all the time when turning, but not a knock. Are you familiar how to test for bad ball joints, tie rods, etc. at home, by lifting one front wheel and push/pulling on it in specific ways? I can link a video if it helps. The most common source of knocking with 4WD trucks is failure to grease the driveline (you must grease all zerks every 5-10k or they get dry, u-joints fail, and you get CLUNK when stopping/going) or someone is being dumb and driving on dry pavement with 4WD engaged.

 

Thank you!
I found a local place that advertises foreign automotive and has excellent reviews. It's a mom and pop, literally, and they have been around for several decades. The guy used to work for Nissan. Wife also said that our local Toyota dealership even sends them the stuff they don't want to deal with. I made an appt with them for Monday. They do free estimates and are literally right around the corner from me, so, I figure I don't have much to lose. I also set up an appt with a driveline shop in Orlando, for a couple weeks out, but although they have 4.5 stars and 172 reviews, some of the negative reviews are pretty concerning. Not to mention they are 70 miles away.

In the almost 3 years and 100K miles I've had my truck, I'm pretty sure the driveline has never been greased, so thank you for that info.

The knocking sound does not only happen when turning, I just happed to notice it in one particular spot right after a turn on several occasions.
I have experience with failing CV axles, and this is not a ticking sound at all, so I don't think that's the source.
I haven't checked the ball joints, tie rods, etc. myself, but my mechanic is normally pretty thorough and does not shy away from recommending replacement of worn parts. That being said, I'm sure it would be good to know how to check that stuff out for myself, so I'd welcome a video.

I don't ever drive around on pavement in 4-wheel. And, since this is my personal truck, there's no chance any of the crew would be doing that either. Besides, they are mostly all pretty smart guys when it comes to that stuff.

I'm realizing that, in addition to the fact that the noise started right after the work done by the first shop, it seems odd that that TSB about the rear axle shaft bearing only covered Sequoias.

 

Wow. This is incredible. Thank you! https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-you-wanna-buy-just-bought-a-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/

 

That's a crazy amount of miles to put on without greasing (at least) the u-joints, and u-joints which are dry will moan/howl (or sometimes squeak at low speeds or cause vibration in the floor/seat at various speeds). And bad/dry u-joints will also cause clunking, especially when shifting between reverse and drive. This would be my #1 suspect at this point. You will know if you take time to grease everything, and if some of the problem/sound/clunk goes away, you know it's time to replace u-joints, and potentially refresh other things on the drive line, like the carrier bearing.

Greasing is very easy to do, and it's a maintenance thing everyone should know how to do. Do you have a basic grease gun?

I would recommend (specifically) this grease, or this grease, both are available at most local auto part stores and on scAmazon. Whatever you buy, it must have "NLGI 2" designation, and contain at least 2.5% Molybednium.

The places you need to grease are shown in this image. The zerk labeled "B" on that image has a special filling process which takes more pumps than all the others, more info here:

The driveshaft slip yoke has a zerk fitting for adding grease. There's a large void under the zerk fitting and it may take 30-40 pumps on a grease gun to actually get any grease on the splines, depending on how much grease was in there to begin with.

Take your grease gun loaded with lithium-based NLGI #2 grease and start pumping grease into the slip yoke zerk fitting. At some point you will encounter increased resistance on the grease gun handle and see that the slip yoke is expanding. Continue to slowly add grease. You will likely see the slip yoke expand on each pump of the handle and then slowly contract. Continue adding grease for about five to ten more pumps or until you see grease coming out around the seal, then stop.

Now get on the rear bumper and bounce it up and down a few times. This will compress the slip yoke and force more grease along the splines. Now take a wrench and remove the zerk fitting to allow excess grease to escape. Once the zerk is removed gently bounce on the bumper again to give it a little help. Clean up the expelled grease, re-install the zerk and you are good to go."​

How do you use a grease gun? What are zerks? What is a u-joint? How do I do this??!

Here is two videos showing how to load and use a grease gun, it's very simple: https://www.tundras.com/threads/black-hole-zerk-wtf.93630/page-2#post-3719163

More tips on greasing here, from another person's recent inquiry: https://www.tundras.com/threads/black-hole-zerk-wtf.93630/page-2#post-3719162

Here is how to grease a U-joint, and now you have no excuse, you can save yourself serious $$$ and possibly understand your problem quickly, BEFORE the truck goes into the shop!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EzhKPM7e4o​

 

Usually it's very hard to know that the lower ball joints are failing until they completely separate or you've taken them off and checked them for play.

Your mechanic may be very good but if he isn't a toyota guy or specialist he may not be aware of the way the lower ball joints are on these trucks.

That being said I don't think your lower ball joints are causing your sound but it may not be a bad idea to consider replacing them soon with new bolts as well.

 

Didn't catch that on the new tundra owner thread. What's the reason for proactively replacing the radiator? Clogs up over time or starts leaking maybe?

 

The integrated transmission cooler/warmer can be compromised and push engine coolant into the transmission. It's basically just for insurance.

 

... insurance against "pink milkshake" (trans fluid + coolant mixture)