Alingment issues with Icon UCA and ICON coilovers, Tie Rods Bottomed out

motoxscott , any tips?

 

@Bannock452

I have the same coilovers as you, except I am using Total Chaos arms. Here's what my alignment guy did for me:
Camber -.25 both sides
Toe Out +1/16 total
Caster L4.0 R4.5

We maxed out the Caster to not sacrifice any Toe.

I read so much about Camburg arms and people getting Caster as high up as 9 degrees. That's a little abnormal. I'm very happy with my TC's.

 

With lifted trucks, you don't want your caster in the "factory recommended" area, it will always be positive and out of spec. Most alignment shops don't know that. Also, some upper control arms (Icon in particular) say in the directions to cut 1/4" off the end of the inner tie rod which most people tend to skip over.

 

I didn't know about cutting the tie rods. They don't come with directions. I'm still stuck with only about 2.3* of caster though?

 

Hey Joey. So I need to cut the inners? I’m getting the exact same numbers as @GTABurnout. Really negative camber and a pretty low caster. @Vizsla already told me to cut my inners and I’m thinking about doing that when I get back from Death Valley. I’ve tried everything else and it looks like it’s my last resort. Just one question. What happens if I ever change suspension or UCA? Will the cut inners affect it? Am I going to have to replace again with new longer inners?

 

No, because factory suspension won't have the outer tie rods threaded that far out on the inner tie rods for the alignment. It is cut so that the outer tie rod can be threaded further down.

 

And caster?

 

Just cut them and be happy with your arms, it is no big deal. You will be surprised what it does for alignment.

 

Yes, you will gain caster. Here is where I will get beat, 3 degrees of caster is the sweet spot, Icon and TC arms are made to have 3ish at 0 camber. Less caster means easier steering, because it is easier on every part of the steering system. Not saying no advantage to higher caster, I have 4.5 ish degrees, and it sounds like I’m drifting when turning in a parking lot.

 

I have 6.2 caster! Definitely feel like I’m drifting when turning sharp on pavement. I’m going to try and trim off 1/4” of my tie rods and see if that helps get my caster down to the 4’s. If that doesn’t work then I might have some camburg arms for sale soon.
Wish I had seen this info prior to buying new arms. My fault I guess.

 

Thanks Vizsla.

I think trimming the tie rods is for the Icon's to improve camber. I don't think cutting will help the Camburgs. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

You need to disregard your caster, get your camber to 0 or -.01 even on both sides, and then see where your caster is. It will be higher than what you have now, probably around 7 degrees. That should eliminate your need to cut tie rod ends. Adding a little more lift is effectively the same as cutting them.

 

Good info here

 

Which UCAs are you running?

 

For those of you with the Icon tie rod bottoming issue I did some nerd math on the conservative side, cutting 1/4” off the inner tie rod threads yields approximately .05 degrees of positive camber simply pulling all cams in equal(caster would remain the same). That’s a lot, and not the end, now you can add caster, and camber will get even better by default. Adding caster is generally pushing the back cam out, moving the ball joint forward(positive caster), and out(negative camber), this also adds more tie rod bottoming clearance. Also need a good alignment tech, I know 2, hard to find. I apologize if this is confusing, and remember I am a big dummy, could be wrong.

The correct ones...

 

Captain team dumb-ass here but tie rods adjust toe right? Camber is adjusted by one of the cams in the LCA?

 

Tie rods adjust toe. Camber and caster are adjusted with both front and rear cams(there is confusion over this in box store alignments). The tie rod bottoming issue, not sure if it applies to you since you have Coachbuilder tie rod whatevers, means tie rod all the way bottomed, and all your alignment guy can do is pivot your lower control arm around that axis to get the best numbers. Shorten tie rod threads, and you now pivot on an axis closer to the truck, more positive camber etc.. I don’t know if that makes sense, but best I can explain.

 

It does make sense you alignment guru!
Do TC and JBA UCa require cutting the tie rods also?

 

Thanks. I think my alignment guy might need a boot to the head. My tie rods aren't bottomed out.

 

This is how many threads you’ll see when it’s bottomed out.

 

You are definitely correct on making camber and toe even. When I did that I had 8.7° Caster! At that point my tie rods were touching my coil (only at full lock) since Caster was so high.


So I had to reduce caster and that’s what got me down to 6.2. With tie rods bottomed out I only was able to get the -1 camber. With almost 0 toe. Would like to get my camber 0 and toe 0 and see if that can help my caster get into the 4’s after I trim.

 

I feel like a little more lift might help your cause. I really don’t even like mine at 4.5 degrees. Did a bunch of switchbacks on a mountain, and it sucked.

 

You know how I feel about TC, of course no tie rod cutting. Don’t know about JBA.

 

Thanks! That’s what I thought.

 

TC baby ! All day ! and even on Sunday

 

sub.

 

So this weekend I trimmed my tie rod ends. Around 1/4” total maybe less. Figured it wouldn’t hurt anything to get them trimmed so once I get another alignment I will have the capability to have further adjustment. I set the setting back to where it was then adjusted only half turn in. Now I have very slight negative toe. Drives much different for such a small adjustment. I plan to get a proper alignment and then we will see the results.

Length before trimming

Length after trim

 

Report back, and don’t be scared to cut off some more, won’t hurt a thing. This is still asking a lot of an alignment tech, must be capable and willing. Kinda sucks aligning around a toe value, completely backwards.

 

Any update?