3rd Gen V8

Now its fully reversed

 

My guess is there are a lot of votes from folks that don't own the V6 TT. So the question might truly be...

Would you pick a 2.5 gen 5.7L 6 speed AT over the V6 TT? Just saying.

 

I thought about that and its very probable

 

This is true. I initially didn't vote for this reason, but after the back and forth and fun discussions I went ahead and voted. I would love to test drive one of the new trucks so my vote has a little more legitimacy, but it's the internet and nothing is real anyway.

 

What I was really hoping for was to see what Toyota could do with a next gen , 6.2 iforce V8 with a 10 speed behind it to go head to head with gm.

Fine if they wanted a second option with the ttv6 , but alas those days are over for Toyota .

 

I have had my 2020 Ram 5.7 E-torque work truck for two years now. Drive the same roads, same driver, same gas, etc as my Tundra every day.

Ram routinely averages 3.5 - 4 mpg better than the Tundra, and is faster / more power in all conditions (I’ve raced them side by side).

Real world enough for you?

 

Reading comprehension is not your best suite? Re-read everything I have written and get back to me.

 

I just got back from a road trip with my busniess partner in his 2021 ram Laramie night shade edition, I have to say, that is a nice truck, ram has gotten better and better over time , I could tell a difference from 2013 and that was nice already, we got over 20 mpg loaded with three dudes and a full bed, road awesome . Not a single rattle, wind noise or anything

 

Dad's '17 DODGE Ram 5.7 gets very good mileage for a full size truck, and consistently rewards low 20's on the highway. Obviously the 8 speed and DOD help with this, but it's still an interesting data point. I imagine the new e-torque really shines in around town mileage.

I understand Toyotas unwillingness to "waste" R&D $, carbon credits, and manufacturing complexity, for a truck with very limited market share.

But I doesn't mean I have to like it or buy it.

 

Yeah, I was trying to leave out the more subjective metrics and keep it to the power train. But….. the Ram drives like a dream, cabin is huge and well laid out, flat rear floor, super quiet, and the stock dual exhaust sounds fantastic.

If I had to buy a new half ton tomorrow besides a Raptor or TRX, it would be a Ram Laramie (great bang / buck). I will be very interested in the new straight 6 Hurricane when it makes it into the Ram.

Luckily I am in no hurry for a new truck since the wife loves the Tundra (especially now with TRD Pro shocks), and when I’m not driving my work truck, I’m mainly driving my Jeep SRT.

 

Ram is really good. I would have looked more into them if they werent so expensive, atleast for the V8 biggest cab.

 

People may have had turbos before. That's why they vote for big reliable N/A. Truck is not making it for a good sports car anyways. 0-60 as fast as possible is not what sports cars are about.

I've had 4 turbo engines, 2 more than N/A. 3 of them have had turbo-related engine problems well before 200k miles. 4th I sold recently with under 50k miles, because it was falling apart already. And I'm talking about reputable, long lasting Mitsibishi turbos, not Toyota's junk that fails in hundreds miles. It is just a nature of forced induction: it breaks more often and more willingly than a simpler, natural aspiration engine.

 

Ram 1500s are flat out awesome for like 80k miles, lol. When they go wrong, they really go wrong. Spend some time on the Ram forums. Cured me of my desire for a Power Wagon real quick. Also, you can't hide all the buybacks...

 

had me thinking about another one, I can tell you that, its has nice touches everywhere, but I think I want to try the GMC AT refresh 6.2 or new tundra platinum this time around

Im looking around for a GMC to test drive, there are some around now

 

Lol I think the truck is gorgeous. Seems to me the only people that think they're ugly are the ones that can't afford them...

 

Buying a GMC is like dating Amber Heard. Beautiful, but it's going to cost you a lot before it eventually shits the bed.

 

You’re just trying to insult everyone who doesn’t like your truck with a snide remark. You honestly think that everyone wants this new design, and the only reason they possibly wouldn’t want it is because they can’t afford it? Any moron can get a loan. We aren’t all the type of person who has to have the latest product to feel relevant.

Maybe we would want it if it had a V8, tow hooks, a smaller turning circle, undeniably good looks, and they didn’t shrink the bed depth and cab dimensions. They make a better car/suburban mom car than a 2nd gen but not a better truck. I was anxiously awaiting the 3rd gen in hopes it would be awesome but it was a let down in many areas. I knew for a fact the 2nd gen was a solid truck. For this reason instead of trading mine in and spending another 10k on a 3rd gen I didn’t like, I put that 10k into it installing a blower giving me more power and still keeping a higher reliability factor than this new truck.

 

@22PlatWCP

 

And here you go hating on the 22 but it doesn't sound like you've even test driven one? I've personally had people see my truck and sit in it/drive it and admit they were a hater until they actually experienced one in person.

 

Old turbo engines did suck. I've had a few turbo'd cars in my life prior to my Ecoboost and they were laggy and annoying to drive when not flogging them. My Legacy GT wouldn't spool for crap until >2500 rpm and then it would light off and be quick for 2000 rpm's and then the turbo would fall on its face above 5k. My parents had an Acura RDX that I had to try really hard to drive at a constant speed due to the way the turbo would spool. You would be at constant pedal input and the turbo would start to come up and then the car would start accelerating. So then you let off and the turbo would die and you would slow down. So annoying.

That said, my parents RDX made it to 280k without any turbo related failures. Many of those miles were driving in and out of Boston in traffic. That car got worked. It finally did have a radiator failure and transmission cooler failure but they do still have it.

But modern GTDI's drive so much better. The load based tuning and the fact that they can make tons of boost at very low RPM's. When my Ecoboost was tuned it would get up near 20 psi at 1800 rpm, and that was at 6500' where the air was thin.

And I don't think turbos have been a typical point of failure on the Ecoboost trucks. That doesn't mean they won't be on the Tundra, but it does mean that Turbo does not equal major repairs every 100k miles either.

 

I’m not hating, I’m simply expressing the reasons I would not buy one without calling other people poor. If you can insult actual people then I can at least be honest about my opinion of a mechanical machine. I have no interest in one. I’m sure it drives like a really nice car, but it’s not for me. If it’s for you then awesome, I hope you enjoy your ownership. For my use a 1/2 ton is borderline not enough truck so I won’t be buying another one of any brand in the future anyway. If they had actually increased the payload a significant amount and addressed some of the other aforementioned concerns maybe I’d have considered one in the future.

 

I have had a number of coworkers with Jeep Grand Cherokee's and Ram 1500's. I am not even kidding when I say that all of them were lemon-lawed. I know that is anecdotal but they do seem to suck.

 

Yup. Doesn't matter what the real world numbers are, although I would guess real world numbers are still a significant improvement.

The thing that interests me the most is the cooling system. The Tundra appears built to do what they say. So while Ford may have huge towing numbers and more payload, power, etc, I am not sure I would want to hook up a 14000 lb trailer to one and try to drag it around Utah on a 100F day. Or even a 12000 lb trailer. Ford builds their trucks to pass J2807 towing standard and that's it. It's not a high bar.

I would be much comfortable putting a 12000 lb trailer behind a 3rd gen Tundra and towing it around Utah on a 100F day. I just think it would do the job better and without drama.

78 ft-lbs at 1200 rpm less and in any conditions(elevation, temperature etc). You don't need 389 or 381 hp to tow a trailer 12000 lb trailer, reality is that if your engine can produce 250-275 hp that is probably enough to do most anything a half ton should be doing at the legal speed limit. I watched a video the other day of a 3.0 duramax towing a 8500 lb travel trailer up a 7% grade at 70mph and it did it at 3000 rpm's. So it was making maybe 260 hp.

But having that low end torque and the ability to use anywhere, anytime, and being able to produce that 275hp at 3000 rpm is what is great about the new motor.

So a 3.0 Duramax?

Because then your efficiency just went out the window unless you are also going to do displacement on demand, which then makes the larger displacement motor more complex and less reliable. The whole point is they are trying to reduce/eliminate pumping loses under light loads which is why you have to reduce the displacement somehow.

While GM and Ram V8's can be efficient, especially the GM's, they are not the pinnacle of reliability in their current form and that is without a blower/turbo.

There is only 2 ways to skin the cat at this point. Big displacement with DOD or small displacement turbo. Apparently most of the manufactures have decided small displacement turbo is the way to go. Even GM has one, Ram is going that way with the 3.0, Ford's been selling 2/3's of their F150's with them for 12 years now, and Toyota went all in.

 

And the sum total of my points was that all this push to the TTV6s has nothing to do with better tech or natural design progression and is all motivated by regulation. Scroll back in a few posts and you'll see I was posing the question/daydreaming about what could be done if there weren't so much hypocritical bureaucracy involved. If there wasn't an impending deadline that made innovating in the V8 world impossible, what kind of awesome could we have?

 

Im not really seeing much difference in the GMC and the 2022 Tundra at this point as far as QDR at the moment. Toyota is abnormally off its game with this truck (so far).

not sure what im doing yet, I would love to see toyota start issuing TSBs and/or recalls for these shitty QC issues or at least start putting better parts in the new builds.

it seems like they cheapened out a bit, like this for example, this was a tundra I test drove and was over 65K, I would expect better.

just a couple shots of stuff that seemed pretty weak. The view from inside the cab from around the drivers door, just the bare metal and a really crappy weather seal. and of course the shitty weather seals around the back door.

and either way its maybe getting screwed with a lifter and maybe getting screwed with a turbo either can happen.

and it was hitting the bump stops over normal stuff on the test drive, this can be adjusted once you get though apparently but you really shouldn't have to

 

What difference does it make if anyone else likes your truck as long as it works for you?

Don't make us have to break out the flatulence meme generator on you.

 

Yes. I've noticed all your arguments seem to be about the world you wished we lived in, not the one we do. At the end of the day, the TTV6 seems to be the best solution to the very broad range of engineering problems the manufacturers are trying to face. Hence why all of them(except Nissan, but that doesn't count) are using a GTDI in a half ton in some form or another. Toyota is all in, Ford is very in, GM has the 2.7L as their base motor(which is a better truck motor than the 5.3L TBH, especially now that it makes 430 ft-lbs) and Ram apparently is going to be close to all in with the Hurricane.

Also, why is MPG's not part of natural design progression? It's being mandated but why is that a bad thing? TTV6's have absolutely improved mpg's, real world, over their predecessors.

At the end of the day, 90% of half ton trucks probably never see a trailer in their entire lives, so they barely get worked anyways. Everyone just likes to mouth off about reliability and whatever and don't even use their trucks anyways. And that's what the MFG's cater to.

 

I don't think Toyota is abnormally off its game. I think they have been on a steady slide for years now and it just isn't obvious to the Tundra crowd because its been 15 years since they updated the truck. And it wasn't just an update, the changed literally every since aspect of the truck from the ground up in one go.