2022 Tundra vs 2022 F-150 opinion?

Do you have some numbers for how widespread this actually is? It’s worth noting this is a supplier issue not a Toyota issue. I know it makes no difference to the guy who can’t drive his truck because he’s waiting on new waste gates. The question is, is the issue itself truly widespread, or did it just bring all the turbo haters (I’m kinda one myself to be honest) out of the woodwork? Truly, it sucks for the few I’ve seen so far. Toyota is going to make it right for those people, and these trucks will last a long time.

I don’t see that we have enough information to throw away my comment that Toyota generally doesn’t have as many first-year issues as other automakers due to the recycling of parts that have already had the kinks worked out in other platforms.

 

We probably won’t know. But the Alabama plant was cranking out the tundra engine at a rate of 18000 per month for the new tundra. Depends on how many come in the batch from the supplier. But given we started noticing 1.5 months after initial builds could be a lot. But we’ll never know

 

Depending on how much you trust YouTube comments, which can be admittedly sketchy, it seems like it’s kind of a big issue if you look at this video.

https://youtu.be/SK6Ly8FiJgg



i’m actually not a turbo hater, I have an Ecoboost on order right now, my point was just that this is not as proven of a drive train as some may think. And I’m not picking on Toyota, first year of anything is always going to have problems, I do think they should’ve done a better job designing this so that the whole engine or the cab did not need to be pulled off to be able to fix this.

 

Saw this post on a Facebook group page- thought I would share-

 

Man, saying "it's a supplier issue" doesn't make the problem irrelevant. Let's just call it a "ownership issue"

And I wouldn't write-off wastegate issues as something simple and possibly not widespread.
The door handle glitch was a supplier issue too, a piece of plastic causing the door locks to freak out. That is something I'd consider a simple, understandable issue.
These servo actuator wastegates are complex devices to manufacturer. Hopefully "the supplier" gets a handle on it, clearly identifies the issue and takes appropriate steps to maintain the highest quality going forward. Having said that, I shake my head in disappointment realizing that the reliability of the truck is in a suppliers hands, not Toyota. I'd prefer if Toyota made most of the parts themselves.
Lastly, I think the entire batch of wastegate actuators needs to be recalled. These are a ticking time bomb on trucks that share the same production run as those that failed.

 

This. One thing modern manufacturing is good at is replicating thousands of copies of parts and components that are exactly alike. We don't know yet what the issue is but unless whoever makes the bad part (unless it is software, which I doubt) found the problem and fixed it there will be many many more. If it indeed turns out to be a widespread defect I just hope Toyota handles the situation better than say, GM, where they just keep sending out the bad stuff, avoid doing a recall, and just fix what breaks. Might be good for the bottom line but not for customer satisfaction and long term loyalty.

 

You made the point better than I did, that's what I was meaning to blurt out.

Whatever the issue is, it was duplicated many times. Either a piece is poorly design x1000's, raw materials were bunk x1000's, machine out of calibration x1000's, one employee having a bad day x1000's.

And then it's cab-off time!

 

And that comment about Tacoma powertrain "tuning" misses the whole point of the lame engine they put in the 3rd gens. That powertrain is simply inappropriate and mismatched for the vehicle. I have a second gen Tacoma and wanted to get a 3rd... but not after test driving one. I hope the next gen is better and one of those might be in my future... if a Tundra doesn't get me first. Although that is not gonna happen anytime soon due to wastegate-gate.

 

And if it is already happening with trucks it only has 300 miles on them what does that look like at 100,000 miles

 

“I have no patience for vehicles stuck in the shop for 2 months.”

 

I agree that it sucks and it doesn’t look good. I see a lot more “the sky is falling” comments and loads of chatter about it than widespread issues. Could be a huge deal, which I think would be unprecedented (you’ll recall that the two famous million mile Tundras are both first year 2nd gens). I intentionally avoided all this by buying a ‘21.

No, I get that people don’t like the 3rd gen Tacoma engines. They’re still reliable and long lasting platforms. You or I not liking that v6 doesn’t mean it’s not reliable and fully capable of the towing specs Toyota gave it.

We’ll see about the waste gates. Worst case scenario, it actually is widespread and Toyota replaces them for a decade or more after the fact like they did with the frame issue. What I don’t see happening is Toyota saying “they’re all like that sorry” the way Ford has done to people with 10-speed issues.

 

I think Toyota will be reliable and remedy also. But I feel like this is just on par with the industry. Everyone wants power and fuel economy and with increasing emissions and regulations this is just bound to be a consequence.

New gen also guarantees i will probably need to buy a new car outside of warranty. These new ones are just manufactured to not be repaired or maintained by Joe mechanic .

 

Yeah as someone who self maintains my vehicles, the added complexity is a disappointment. This is why I bought the last model year of the last 14-year generation.

 

Of course, the 3rd gen Tacoma engine is reliable, meets the advertised specs and can tow what they say. But it sure does it ugly.

And yeah, I expect Toyota to handle this Tundra wastegate issue... but if it turns out to be a widespread problem and they don't do a flat out recall it would still not be pleasant driving what amounts to be a time bomb and just waiting for that day. Hopefully not when you are off on a long road trip.

 

The problem isn't so much the complexity but the inaccessibility. Plenty of us here could change out a turbo... if we can see it and touch it. But very few of us have a garage with headroom sufficient to pull the cab off. Or a hoist to do so.

 

Crap like this makes me wish I could rent space in a garage with a lift. I can do this work myself, if only I had a lift. I'm also planning to get the new twin turbo Z, and it's already been established that it's engine-out to get to the turbos on that car too. So if I buy that and the Tundra, it'd make me feel better if I had access to a lift.

Back when I worked on cars for a living, I could engine swap 2 4cyl fwd cars in an 8 hour day. Without a lift, maybe 5-6 hours per car. I still have most of my tools.

I just think with insurance liabilities being what they are, I'll never find a lift and garage space for rent....

 

Man, Z32 was also engine out for any turbo service. That was 30 years ago! I know because I owned a Z32 300ZX TT.

Everyone on here is just speculating without actually having eyes on the parts in question. Those that own the trucks, go look at your truck and find the turbo. When you see its location, you will understand how much space is actually available to remove it.

 

But wait, there's more. The lift won't help you with the Tundra. That won't get the cab off. So you need a lift and an engine hoist for the Z and some sort of cab hoist for the Tundra and a shirtload of vertical space above. I bet even a lot of shops don't have all of this.

I didn't know there were making a new twin turbo Z. I need to go have a look at those. Although my C7 Corvette M7 stick shift is looking pretty simple and easy to maintain in comparison.

 

So, I got out of the car industry in 2000. Back then, I never had to do cab-off, but I've done plenty of engine-out jobs.

From what I thought I saw, if you have a 2post lift without a top beam, you can lift the truck on the frame, detach the cab, lower the truck, move the lift pads to the cab and lift the cab up. You then manually select neutral (or had left the truck in neutral prior) and push the chassis out, lower the cab onto a pallet and set it aside. You can also just work under the cab if you get the lift up high enough.

It's been 22 years since I worked professionally as a tech, I may be mistaken!

 

Crap, I just realized engine-out and cab-off require recovery and disconnection of the AC system.

Cab-off also requires ABS fuckery too....

That just adds even more costs.

Uhhhh.....crap

 

I think we’re saying the same thing here. To me, requiring additional steps to get to what you need to fix is itself added complexity.

 

Could be worse. Replacing the clutch on a Lambo is an engine out job and it has to be done every 20k miles or something ridiculous like that if I recall correctly.

 

More than likely though for a Lamborghini to hit 20k would probably take between 10-20 years .

 

A Lambo though.....

 

I've heard you don't have to pull that cab or engine to replace cam phasers in an F150

 

Kinda proves the point though right? Ford fixed that a few years ago. Ecoboost has has 10+ years on the road vs 3 weeks on the road for the Tundra.

 

They know their cam phasers fail a lot, so they made sure they’re accessible.

 

10+ years and still can't get it right, sad

 

Well, they still managed to get me to write a check for one. haha

 

Something must be right since people keep going back for more.

TBH, there is not a lot wrong with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Its been a fantastic motor all around.

The 3.5 had timing chain issues with the first gen which was partially because of the length of the chain, but partially because the oils at the time(API SN) were not adequate. API has focused on timing chain issues with API SN+ and SP because its not just a 3.5L Ecoboost problem. Its a problem with GTDI's in general. And people who changed their oils frequently with good synthetics and actually run their trucks tend not to have issues.

The 2nd Gen 3.5 fixed that issue by going to two shorter timing chains, but then Borg Warner went and screwed up the phasers. Those were fixed by the 2019 model year. No worse than someone having crappy wastegates for a model year or two.