2022 Tundra vs 2022 F-150 opinion?

Nice, I'm jealous man. Enjoy the new Tundra!

 

with tax, thats like $100k moose bucks. I dont know how people do it.

 

yeah but its all for the seats. I know you and another on here love GM seats. and seats are very important to you. These seats gotta be good for when you are going over the school zone bumps.

https://youtu.be/I7Y5dCnv4SM?t=294

So the Tacoma TRD Pro is a direct competitor to the Ford Raptor, but the Tundra TRD PRO competes against the Tremor. Am I the only one that finds that interesting.

$65k US.
thats $102,000 here in Ontario ($90k plus 13% tax)
I bought a house in Toronto in 1988 for $200k. $200k is the deposit now.

Is it any wonder our economy is going down while the US keeps defying everyone including the US Fed.

 

I believe the seats are an option so add to the price whatever those will be.

I pulled my deposit on the Tacoma. I’m sure I won’t make money on it. Surely people aren’t dumb enough to be in the 75-80k price point for it

 

When I was younger 8^) I always leased one vehicle because the nature of my job allowed a write off.
I always had a Toyota or Honda as a business vehicle for my or my wifes use.
One of the reasons why, was because they had high resale (higher % residual value ) at the end of the lease term. The high residual value at the end of the term lowered the payment - which is all I was focused on (payment) as it was a write off.
I would hammer the Leasing manager on the monthly number. never dealt with the Sales Agent as I bought through a club and dealt with the Leasing Manager only.
I told him this is what I want to pay. I had a maximum amount or lower that I could write off. He negotiated this with his boss not me.
Always at the end of the month, give them the incentive to add to the sales number - not focused on profit. We are approaching the end of the month.

I am curious - if any one is leasing a Tundra or F150 - what is the residual value % at the end of the term for both? The number is very revealing. 8^)

 

I've never really understood leasing, it's basically just a long term rental right?

 

I don't fully understand it either.

When I did look at a Tundra, the sales guy was telling me I'm the perfect candidate for a lease because I tend to buy a new truck every 3 years or so. But, I drive around 22,000 miles/year. He said mileage doesn't really matter because you can buy it out and trade it in. But that seems like a lot of hoops to me. I also don't want to be forced into a decision after three years. With prices the way they are, I'm planning to hold onto this one for 5-6.

I think I just have a bad opinion of it because anyone I know who leases refuses to do anything to their vehicle because it's a lease. They stick with the OEM tires, don't do a bedliner, etc. I understand why, but that isn't me.

I also know too many people lately who got to the end of a 3-year lease only to buy the vehicle out because residual was under what it was worth and a new lease was much more expensive than their previous one. But now they're going to be paying for a vehicle for 8-9 years. Seems like they would have been better off to just buy it in the first place, especially since rates were super low at the time. The F-150 I got in mid 2020 was 0%.

 

Yeah, I'd have to amortize out a loan vs lease/residual and see where they land but it'd have to be a big advantage for me to consider dealing with the headaches of being well over the mileage. I don't see how it could come out better in the end.

I've always gotten rates that are lower than my savings rate, so I let the loans mostly ride out. This truck is 2.9% and my main savings is 4.3% so it doesn't really make sense to pay a significant amount extra. I was going to do a 60 month on this, but that was 3.9% and 500 more off sticker vs 2.9% at 72. So, I took the 72 and just treat it like a 60 month loan.

 

It's a good option if you think of your vehicle as an expense or if you want to try out a vehicle and you're not sure if you're going to like it. It’s a great option if you know prices are going to skyrocket. High resale (residual %) Last two years. If resale prices will fall – next two years ? – it may not be as good to make money…depends. In this case you just hand back the vehicle.

Leasing subject deserves its own thread but because the pick up truck craze has turned these vehicles into an everyday vehicle for many, and they have high resale value, (right now) …..its applicable.

Couple thoughts
With leasing the vehicle ownership belongs to the dealership/lender not you, until leasing contract bought out at any time. So it’s a great option if you are not sure it will be a good vehicle for you. Get a short lease and return it as I previous said.

It’s like renting, sure, but you have the first option to buy. If you can stay below the mileage limits of the contract, and it is a popular vehicle (like a pickup truck these days) , it is a great option because you have a good idea that it will be worth more retail (with low mileage) at the end, than your lease buy out number. At the end you can even sell the lease to someone else, make money and have them buy it from the dealer.
I would never buy any previous leased vehicle that you did not know the owner of, because it was probably maintained to the minimum and the person was intent on returning it. (assumed)

@Bannerman
edit add
If two vehicles cost the same. One A has 60% end of contract residual value and B has 50%. Your payments on B will be higher because it is covering 50% of value over contract vs 40% for vehicle A.

 

I guess it makes sense for someone who has a company stipend towards a vehicle.

I'm simple though. I just do research on what the best vehicle is for my use. Write them a check and drive off the lot. When that vehicle no longer meets my needs. I buy something else and sell the old one. Rinse and repeat. No leasing, no loans.

 

we are all aware the almighty resident ford guy is rich and pays cash for everything

 

Paying cash is about self discipline not being rich.

 

I know one guy who gets a vehicle stipend - I think it's $700/month. He pockets the stipend and just buys 3-4 year old trucks and runs them for 3-4 more like he would anyway. He said you have to be careful, though, because some guys pocket the stipend and drive old clunkers and the company does not want to hear you didn't make a client appointment due to a breakdown when they're paying you to drive something newer.

 

That is an ideal scenario. But I think that's rare, a lot of the companies I have seen that offer a stipend require you be in a vehicle that is no more than X years old.

 

If I remember correctly, they started requiring that for anyone new but grandfathered existing employees into the old "no questions asked" system. He got a friend a job and the friend was mad that he didn't get the same deal.

He works for a commercial water treatment company (boilers and such) and puts tons of miles on.

 

To add to what I said above, not one person on here with a new truck NEEDS it. A couple year old truck would do just as well. If you are taking out a loan on a $50-70k new Tundra/F-150 and paying $1000 a month for it, you also have the ability to save up 20-30k and buy a used truck in cash, if you had the self-discipline.

And I'm not casting stones here. What people do with their money is there business, makes not a hill of bean difference to me. But I take offence that I pay cash because I'm "rich".

 

@Bannerman is the Dave Ramsey of the Tundra forums

 

gee thanks for the tip

 

Kinda. Depending in the money factor and RV% you can come out ahead. But really it’s for folks who want a low payment and new car and no maintenance

 

didnt mean to strike a nerve this morning, I was just ribbing, looks like a hit a sore rib, lol

you and I are both well off, we know this, and I don't disagree.

 

Ramsey for getting out of debt, Bogle for investing.

 

I consider myself to have pretty good financial sense and take issue with a lot of what Ramsey says. I get that his target audience is people with no self control, but he has hard lines in the sand that he refuses to cross which can be a disservice to responsible people.

Sometimes it's cheaper to finance. I bought a small Kubota tractor for $17k. 0% financing versus paying cash? You bet I financed. With the truck, too, 2.9% is a lower cost than current high yield savings rates.

He's also so anti-credit card it's ridiculous. I've never paid a dime in credit card interest. I use credit cards for everything possible and pay them in full as soon as the statement cuts. First, debit cards generally offer very little security against fraud. You're generally out the money while the bank looks into it. With a credit card, it's the bank's money - they credit you immediately and deal with it on their end, no questions asked. Second, I accrue around $1000/year in cash back. I heard a caller tell him they do this scenario once, and he just about lost it basically implying that if the guy ever got into a bad situation, those cards would be the crutch and he'd max them right away.

 

The way I see it is, you already made 3 years worth of payments on vehicle A.

The only way you come out ahead buying a vehicle you leased at the end of your term is if the lease payments you made plus the cost to buy at the end of the lease is less than the original purchase price of the vehicle at the beginning of the lease contract. Otherwise I see it as paying excess to not commit.

I buy vehicles to use forever or until my family’s needs change in a substantial way (beyond minor inconvenience) and carry zero debt aside from a 3% mortgage.

 

This sums up the variances we had when we used his plan. We had $170k+ in debt, mostly student loans. We used "our version" of his plan to clear that debt. $1000 EF was too low for us, we kept $5k. We have always had exactly one CC, pay it off several time a month, get 1.5% on all purchases. BUT, with regard to the financing vs paying cash, while on paper it may be cheaper to finance, your behavior changes when you finance vs paying cash. If you go to buy a Tundra and are trying to decide between the SR5 and the Limited, if you are about to watch and extra $10k leave your checking account, you may chose the SR5, after all it's 98% the same truck. But if it's ONLY and extra $150 a month, sure you might choose the leather seats and the big infotainment screen.

 

that and you get some pretty good rewards with some , 5% off groceries etc .

Just stick to no annual fee and pay it off, good purchase protection as well

 

And for every month you made a payment you reduced your income by almost that amount also, and you got use of the vehicle.
If you are in a high tax bracket where you live, this is advantageous. there are two sides to this. Depends.

For giggles.
I know someone with an RV. This was bought used 4 years ago for $100k - new ($400k). This thing looks like something that a rock star would travel with. Looks like a Greyhound bus and when it's parked it's ass blows out into 4 bedrooms. Due to its age they thought it's depreciation was done. So instead of selling last fall, they kept it and took one more trip this spring. They just got back and the guy at the RV Center (American spelling for centre) lol..... told them the market crashed and it is now worth 30% less than last fall.

 

I don't follow. You're making that payment with post-tax money. Unless you are a business owner and writing it off, but that's a whole separate discussion.

 

I finance and try to hold 10-plus years, twice the loan or more. I generally do not pay cash and have done well with taking minuscule interest rates and taking dividend/Cap gain payouts on that money.

I lived cheaply in my 20s when i started out with decent income and put a little money away. So I do not have to pinch pennies later in life. Just stay the course.

Everybody wants to live for the moment before they get married and have kids. That's the least expensive time in life and the easiest to build wealth if you have decent income to work with

 

I depreciate my truck and take actual deductions. I come out ahead vs doing standard deductions, and it significantly reduces my costs over the year.

I'm still not sure how leasing and then buying my truck after the lease is the better move, even if it's for the sole purpose of using it as a bargaining chip to re-up on a subsequent purchase, which is still coming out behind buying the first vehicle in the first place and being content enough to keep it for the long term.

"But see, you pay more so you can then pay slightly less on paying more afterward" is what I'm hearing.

Again, my perspective is buy once, keep forever, invest aggressively, and carry no debt. Don't make poor financial decisions that only make it somewhat easier to keep making poor financial decisions.

 

Depends on how you look at it (related to your "Not one person with a new truck needs it").

In 2020 I was having a ton of issues with my '13 F150...and the dealership was jerking me around big time. Additionally, where I used to live, I did a lot of towing through the middle of nowhere, so when I say I needed it to be reliable, I mean it. I've been stranded in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter and have had to walk 3-5 miles in sub-freezing weather to a gas station....so yeah, suffice to say for me, reliability is absolutely paramount.

That said....did I 'need' a new one? Technically....but in 2020, a slightly used Tundra (and by that I mean 60K or less miles, 2016-2020) was easily mid to high $30K's or so. Meanwhile, the new truck I bought was $41.7K, with far more features that I'd actually use (e.g., 38 gallon tank). It was/is a 2020 SR5 CrewMax with the SR5 Upgrade and TRD Off-Road packages.

So no, I didn't "need" a new truck, but at times that's kind of splitting hairs. It made no sense to pay maybe $3K less and get a truck with fewer features, more miles, and fewer miles on the warranty.

That and the truck I bought has a lifetime engine warranty (as in unlimited miles, unlimited time).