2022 Tundra vs 2022 F-150 opinion?

Anyone comparing the tundra to a 3/4 ton do yourself a favor and get an XL 4x4 f250 6.2.

Tanks. Literally look in the middle east, you dont see many chevys rams or tundras in a Taliban parade. What does the cartel steal to drive across the border, f250 4x4.

My old backup truck is a 6.2 with 9000 hours on it, 88k miles, 4x4 that has literally been used to hell and still works. No problems outside maintenance. Has been driven by many drivers and stolen and used to ram through some shit and returned minus rims and tailgate

Still works fine.

 

One of those organizations don't pick, they get what we give them free. The other organization supports the country of origin.

 

I'm not well versed on the Tundra.

But I can say why it's easy on a F-150:
The driveshafts, front and rear, are the same p/n for the 4A and 4x4 trucks.

The wiring and connectors are no different, to the transfer case and the dash switch.

Probably most importantly, the average Joe has access to Forscan. And the PCM supports 4A operation, it's just enabling the software to operate it.

I have a Nissan Titan. Just like the Tundra, it has a SUV version of itself, the Armada, and it has selectable, clutched AWD and regular 4x4 in one transfer case.

However, although the transfer case will bolt into a Titan, the output shafts have different couplings, and the front shaft can be used from the Armada, but not the rear.

Most importantly, we can't figure out the PCM. Nissan used "Consult-II" which is like Forscan or TechStream. But it's very difficult to find a Consult-II system in the wild, and since it's subscription based only for dealers.... well, we're out of luck.
Not sure if Toyota implementation between Tundra and Sequoia or Land Cruiser would be similarly challenging.

BTW, cost was under $1,000 in parts and Forscan should one DIY

 

in 2021 I owned a 21 F150 XLT Loaded and most recently (in Dec.) I purchased a 21 Tremor F150 (402A - Hard loaded). Thursday I sold the tremor and bought a 22 Limited Tundra. I like the stance of the Tundra a lot better than the F150. The tech on the F150 is top notch. Comfort on the Tundra is close to the Tremor. The Tundra is not as loaded as the Tremor was, but I like the Tundra better. If you have any specific questions between the two let me know and Ill do my best to answer.

 

That tremor rake is extreme

 

Thanks for that. Interesting.
My understanding is that the transfer case that is in SUV's with 4auto Like the Armada and Sequoia. is not as robust as the standard 4hi/4low transfer case found in the Tundra and I assume the Titan from what you are saying. Not as robust implying not really meant for heavy truck duty. Adding 4auto adds complexity, extra parts and it is at the expense of strength. Maybe this is the reason it is not offered on the Tundra? And we all know how conservative Toyota is and stress reliability. Just saying....

When the Toyota engineer was talking with Andre on TFL, and Andre asked why no 4Auto - the engineer totally skirted the question and just said - "we offer MTS in 4wd high now".

I have read owner forum reports of the RAM's equipped with 4auto 4wd where the "transfer cases heated up" when used for long distance, when used under load. This is just forum talk.

And the Ford's transfer case design from what you are saying is a different animal altogether.

 

I use to do boosted 4A take offs all the time in the rain my 3.5 eco with a 93 octane performance tune on it.

Would occasionally do it on dry pavement. But I dont like tearing my stuff up so I wasn’t trying to rag it out.

Worked fine. We don’t get snow here so thats all I got on 4A.

One thing you have to appreciate is the ability to tune the turbo motors. They really like it.

 

Scroll down to see the Fseries is a little above industry average.

Its not the countour or aerostar, thats whats bring the rating down.

 

I’ve had two f150s before getting my tundra two years ago. I still love the f150s features, styling and ride. I love my 2015 tundras reliability and look. If I was to get the newest model of each it would be the f150. The new tundra is ugly and overpriced for what your getting compared to the lariat or above f150.

 

Yes I have had both and agree the tundra is better quality. Was pointing something out to show an accurate picture and avoid any fake news.

I think once you go down to an XL ford with light options on it the gap closes. I have had pretty much every trim level Ford.

The Ford is just going to loosen up faster and fall apart at a quicker rate.

 

How about this one?

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Full-size_Truck.html

 

Yes. Ram is higher than Ford, lol.

I’ve had 2 rams. 5.7 1500 2wd and a 2500 cummins diesel 4x4. Pieces of shit. Literally fell apart. Suspensions, major electrical, drivers seat frame (weigh 190 lbs). Junk.

I’ve owned 7 Fords since 2011 f150-f350 with pretty much every motor and they have all been decent trucks. I had a couple early 6.2 f250s and they are an outlier in that they are so reliable though but the others were decent and never had much of any issues. I actually use my trucks in my construction business and I hand them down to employees.

Not taking anything from Tundra, they are a notch above. Just being factual.

 

A good example of the Ram. A couple things I remember that stuck out as quality issues amongst several major issues they had.

On my 1500 5.7 2wd it would use around 1/2-3/4 quart of transmission fluid between oil changes, but it had no leak….

On my 2500 diesel. Yes its meant for weight and yeah the tailgate doesn’t crumple but there is a brace inside the tailgate that will put little outward dents/dimples in the outside sheetmetal. And no I was not overloading the tailgate purposely and am very careful. The fix if I had know what to put some seam glue there as they were to cheap to complete the job at the factory.


Dont get me started on wiring, suspension, or seat quality.

 

No trigger. More of a warning that data might not be accurate. It may be going off recall or published data that isn’t applicable. My F350 powerstroke is in the dealer right now on a TSB for the 10 speed; it actually worked fine but they said something was wrong with it a needle bearing in one of the gears.

I have also had a few chevys and one tundra. I may end up with a 22 Tundra because we can’t get Fords because of supply chain issues. I will find out monday.

 

Yeah I posted my FIL’s 2015 XLT F150’s door jamb stickers on the payload thread. That truck is just like a Tundra crewmax—it has the huge supercrew cab and a 5.5’ bed. Plus 4x4, rear e-locker, and 1838lb of available payload. That’s 568 lb more than my TRD Off Road crewmax.

For what I want out of a truck, I don’t trust that F150 as far as I can throw it. It has stranded my FIL once (that I’m aware of), and he’s been back to the dealer several times for recalls and service items that due to the design of the truck are too big a pain in the ass to DIY.

I will choose the far more reliable, lower payload truck and deal with being overweight once in a while every time. Even so, it would be nice if Toyota would throw us a bone and bring those numbers up to at least something competitive.

 

Drill further. The newer generations are well ahead industry average. Quality index continues to go up, powertrain failures trending down. Seems to be the trend for every 1/2 ton maker according to that site. Shrug.

 

I'm just curious as to what year Ram 1500 you had ?

 

I had an 04, then an 07 and 09 diesels. All 3 were junk. 09 2wd because I had so many suspension problems with the 07 4x4. It was a manual too.

They rate the Eseries high too. True unless you ever was blessed with a 5.4 which was required to get any actual tow capacity.

 

Dashboard Light measures long term reliability of drivetrains only. This would imply that they do not factor in body, paint, interior, or electrical issues that don’t have anything to do with the drivetrain. From their “Click here first!” page:

“From a quality perspective, we’re looking at that exact point when an owner has decided that the vehicle they bought at a retail price is now worth only a trade-in wholesale price, and why they made the decision to trade the vehicle in.”
​

Each model gets a gauge for drivetrain, engine, and transmission issues. (Drivetrain counts vehicles that had issues in the engine and/or the transmission, so you get an overall number of issues). Here is some data on full size trucks:

Reported to have powertrain issues when they are sold by the original owner or traded in:
F-series: 18.2%
Ram: 12.6%
Sierra: 11.6%
Silverado:11.8%
Titan: 9.76%
Tundra: 6.62%

Now, judging by this forum alone, there are PLENTY of people who trade in their 1- or 2-year-old truck without reporting issues. I’m curious how many people don’t disclose those issues when they trade their truck in because they want the maximum trade-in value they can get. What I’m getting at is something that they say on the Click Here First page: the numbers aren’t just based on lemons that skew everyone down.

You might look at the numbers I’ve posted above and think, “Brand X is worse than Brand Y?! Now I really know that Dashboard Light is full of crap!” But again, remember they are looking at drivetrain issues ONLY. In my anecdotal experience, Rams tend to fall apart around the drivetrain. There are a lot of non-drivetrain issues (electrical, computer, water-filled body mounts, etc) that they are sort of known for having. DL doesn’t look at any of those. They are operating from the premise that people decide to accept wholesale price for a vehicle they paid retail price for when the vehicle stops fulfilling its fundamental purpose—to get the owner from point A to point B, and this occurs when it has drivetrain issues.

Regarding the topic of this thread, almost 1 in 5 F-series trucks are reported to have issues when they pass out of the original owner’s hands. I don’t care how many features they have, how comfortable the test drive is, etc. I’m not willing to take a chance with those odds. Based on that metric alone, the Tundra is nearly 3x as reliable.

 

Where do they get their reports? Would love to give my GM buyback and trade in reports

 

The only place you'll hear people saying that the 4A style transfer cases aren't as robust is on forums where people do mental gymnastics to justify Toyota's decisions.

With all of the warts that Nissan has, there's no indication that the 4A attessa transfer case is factually any weaker than the more basic 4x4 case.
Although anecdotal, Toyota guys who know the Sequoia and Land Cruiser also say those transfer cases basically don't have any weaknesses either.

Brand enthusiasts will say Toyota chose basic 4x4 for durability. Then they'll wonder why the heck Toyota stopped using the external transmission cooler.

The fact of the matter is, Toyota is doing what every FS truck manufacturer is doing.... Milking the customer. They are smart, they'll definitely gain more customers than they'll lose.

Plastic bumpers, smaller interior, no 4A.....
More expensive engine and transmission.....
Subscription services built-in.....
All for significantly more money than before.

Most will be okay with all that.

But in no way did Toyota leave out 4A for "durability" that's just mental gymnastics there.....

 

Sounds like you were the triggered one.

Take it from an owner of these vehicles that uses them for work.

I have also had a couple 2wd 6.0 chevys too. I dont like the 4wd system in them because I can just imagine one of my workers taking one through a ditch overloaded and busting a CV joint.

The difference in quality is because the Ford has more doodad bull shit on it that breaks. My platinum had damn near has every feature my personal daily S63 coupe has on it at $120k less so yeah I expect some cut corners.

The SR5 is on par with an XL/STX Ford and there isnt much to break on those trucks.

 

As far as the 4a I bet Toyota didnt do it on the Tundra because of reliability reasoning.

They need other stuff too/. The IWE is a know pain in the ass on the F150. $20 part but there goes your reliability reports lol.

 

We have been 100% Ford at my work for 13 years now.

I have driven and worked with most Ford's. And when they have issues, it negatively impacts my ability to work.

I will never own a Ford based on my experiences. I almost considered the new F-150 until we got a batch of 5.0 4x4 crew cabs in. Super nice trucks, but already obviously sub-par to my expectations. Rebooting infotainment and glove box won't stay shut. Beginning it's tenure with us exactly the same as every Ford has all of these years.....

 

http://www.dashboard-light.com/click-here-first/

 

Quite a few of the owners of less reliable vehicles won't mention the problems to a survey or anyone else keeping track.

Many people are conditioned to not be bothered by these issues.

Probably the people most likely to complain were those who gave a certain manufacturer a try, only to get burned.
I've seen so many brand loyal owners go online, and a few I know personally, bitch and complain that their vehicle is such garbage, only to show up with a 1-2 year newer version of the same vehicle, they traded-in whilst at the service department getting their clunker fixed, for the same clunker..... just a new one!

 

Exactly. People are extremely tribal, especially when it comes to trucks. “My old one sucked, but the dealer gave me a great trade-in value, so I got a newer version of the exact same truck.” This is completely mind-blowing to me.

 

i mean the supplied website graph shows it’s not mind blowing. Each year quality index trends up and problems trends down so would make sense?

 

Remember, Dashboard Light is tracking long-term drivetrain reliability. The quality index does not trend up as you get newer. It trends down as time passes. Every vehicle is reliable until it’s not, right? And that’s the crux of what that entire website is trying to tell us—year by year, model by model, here are the rates of reported issues that cause people to trade in their vehicle and realize their unrealized loss in value. It may be 1-3 years after they bought it; it might be 7-10 years. The newer vehicles across the board skew more reliable because they generally don’t have the years or miles on them to reveal those issues yet. Generally. Trends develop though. The way it’s set up, I think it is far more accurate for the vehicles model years 2015 and older. There isn’t any long-term data on recently produced vehicles, by definition.

 

Drivetrain reliability may be going up (or maybe we just don't have enough info on new models as @Terndrerrr says) but I think for the domestics, overall reliability will continue to go down as they add new tech, features, gadgets and gizmos, especially given that they don't tend to do nearly as much testing as Japanese automakers do.

I'm also of the opinion that drivetrain reliability will go down as we go to smaller turbocharged engines, transmissions with more gears and other strategies to improve fuel economy but the data will eventually confirm or disconfirm that theory.