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2020 Differential needle bearing failure

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by CreekDweller, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Jan 8, 2021 at 6:32 AM
    #61
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    Your absolute right and maybe it's for the best. The sad thing about all this is that I just ended up pissing off the dealer principle who I do respect. I have full confidence in the sales department and all the techs that work there. I have no respect for the service manager and the way he treated the customers and other employees. The time that I worked there was difficult only because of the unethical way he treated customers and the constant pressure you got from being pushed to do work that wasn't required. His motive was to try to vacuum out the pockets of unaware customers. Customers that he didn't like got different service than customers he did like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
    JLS in WA and timsp8[QUOTED] like this.
  2. Jan 8, 2021 at 6:32 AM
    #62
    SuperWhiteTurdPro

    SuperWhiteTurdPro New Member

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    I don't blame you, sounds like you made the right decision with your specific dealership. Good luck with the fix! Mine goes under the impact gun on the 11th.
     
  3. Jan 8, 2021 at 6:40 AM
    #63
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    Ruggy's experience with the dealer was not a good one, without question. It is hard to understand why any fee would be necessary to confirm a known problem issue that can be readily reproduced with a short test drive. It seems that the service advisor or service manager could have driven the truck if the concern was committing a tech's time before confirmation of the existence of the problem.

    Do the laws or practices in Canada and the US differ? - so that in Canada they have the right to charge for diagnosis? I've had several instance with different brands of cars with warranty problems and have never paid for diagnosis, so it's hard for me to understand why there would be any resistance by a reputable dealer (who sold you this vehicle) to confirm the existence of this problem. As Ruggy said, it seems this dealer is a rotten apple. Perhaps Toyota needs to pick the bad apples out of the barrel.
     
    Wallygator likes this.
  4. Jan 8, 2021 at 6:51 AM
    #64
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    It just depends on the dealer. I’ve seen good and bad ones. I’ve been told before about the diagnostic fee but not charged it at one dealer.

    My only warranty repair on my 18 was a leaking radiator. I was told they’d charge a fee to look at it and I said if it was under warranty I wasn’t paying the fee. The lady got her boss and he agreed and didn’t charge a fee. It ended up being covered under warranty. I also got an alignment at that same dealer after my lift and fully expected to pay for it but they covered it under warranty. It all depends on who you talk to.
     
    Ruggybuggy likes this.
  5. Jan 8, 2021 at 7:17 AM
    #65
    Wallygator

    Wallygator Well Zippedy Da Do!

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    Sounds like you are better off not going to that dealership in the first place. A two hour trip is worth it if they take of your truck the right way IMO
     
    Ruggybuggy[QUOTED] likes this.
  6. Jan 8, 2021 at 8:43 AM
    #66
    MaxMB

    MaxMB New Member

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    It's all on a per-province basis, but in ON;

    https://www.ontario.ca/page/car-repair-shops-your-rights

    Looks like inspection fees to provide an estimate are allowed, so long as the price is declared up front, but if you proceed with the repair per the estimate then the inspection fee is supposed to be waived (unless the customer delays substantially in telling the garage yea or nay)
     
  7. Jan 11, 2021 at 12:00 PM
    #67
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    I'm at the dealership now and they are inspecting. It was nice and loud when I came in.
     
    Leo's first likes this.
  8. Jan 11, 2021 at 3:03 PM
    #68
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    Update: Just returned from the dealer a short time ago after dropping the truck for a replacement differential. It's not too cold here right now so on the drive home I did not have the right conditions to try to see if the needle bearing noise is gone - though with a new differential I'd be surprised if it weren't gone.

    Some interesting notes on the R.O. from the dealer - they called the problem a 'rough needle bearing' and wrote "gear oil very dirty". That makes me happy Toyota authorized replacement of the entire differential and not just installation of a new bearing. Further notes: They verified the problem with a "chassis ear" which I assume allows them to isolate the sound to the problem area. It is also interesting to note that they filled the differential with BG Synthetic Gear Oil - not the Toyota gear oil - not sure why that lubricant with a new Toyota part.

    To Ruggie's question of the other day - the service writer said there was no new TSB for this problem. He explained that TSBs are used as updates to the repair manual so if there are no additional mechanical updates to the repair process in the repair manual, then there will be no new TSB. I'll be interested to hear if Ruggy hears the same story when he asks for it. I also wish him good luck getting a new differential. Sounds as if that is the right remedy.
     
  9. Jan 11, 2021 at 4:42 PM
    #69
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    Just back from the dealership. Went for a ride with the tech and disclosed to him that I'm a just retired Toyota Tech. He heard the noise as well and noticed that it stopped in 4WD. He was thinking out loud and suggested in may be a tire or wheel bearing noise. I asked him if it was why would it go away in 4WD? He was stumped. I suggested to him that it could only be the needle bearing in the diff on the driver's side. The needle bearing is only used when the truck is in 2WD because the carrier is stationary. In 4WD the carrier is rotating with the needle bearing and CV shaft. He agreed. After a couple of hours of waiting was called to the service counter. They are planning to change out the complete front diff.
     
  10. Jan 11, 2021 at 5:52 PM
    #70
    SuperWhiteTurdPro

    SuperWhiteTurdPro New Member

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    Got my truck back today, brand new front diff. Smooth as silk I’m happy to report.
     
  11. Jan 11, 2021 at 7:14 PM
    #71
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    Let's hope it stays that way.
     
  12. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:43 AM
    #72
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    Excellent news. And on the ride home last night, maybe my imagination, but things up front seemed smoother on my truck too.
     
  13. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:02 AM
    #73
    SuperWhiteTurdPro

    SuperWhiteTurdPro New Member

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    Now that my front end growl has been muted, my ears are free to hear tire roar again! Oh the joys!
     
    Ruggybuggy and Gunship Guy like this.
  14. Jan 19, 2021 at 12:01 PM
    #74
    BenAZ

    BenAZ New Member

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    Just dropped mine off this morning at the dealer I bought it from today for the same complaint. SA called me back and told me the tech says its a wheel bearing. I just did 2 new ones on Saturday to eliminate that.:annoyed:
     
  15. Jan 19, 2021 at 1:13 PM
    #75
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    Unless you have a warranty, you’re better off not having Toyota fix it. They’ll want to replace the entire front diff and charge you around $3000.
     
  16. Jan 19, 2021 at 1:19 PM
    #76
    BenAZ

    BenAZ New Member

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    No warranty on the bearing they claim is bad since I did it myself (new bearing did not change a damn thing as far as noise). Just rolled over 58k Saturday so still in original powertrain warranty. I'm going in in an hour to take their tech for a drive. I'm willing to bet he just put the truck on the rack and put it in drive. If that doesn't help, I'll make a trip down to a dealer in Phoenix. I've had quite a few problems with my dealer since purchase. I took it in a year ago thinking it was my wheel bearing. They said "no problem found" and gave me 2 vouchers for a free car wash. Now all of a sudden its a wheel bearing that's 3 days old.
     
  17. Jan 19, 2021 at 1:24 PM
    #77
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    I meant if they say it is the needle bearing, the tsb from Toyota says to replace the entire front diff. If it’s not under warranty, youd be better off getting the ecgs bushing and having a different shop do it.
     
    JohnLakeman likes this.
  18. Jan 19, 2021 at 1:28 PM
    #78
    BenAZ

    BenAZ New Member

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    That's exactly my plan. I'm not counting on them working with me, but I will probably get a second opinion before I do it myself. Just venting here because I'm frustrated with the piss poor service of the dealer I bought the truck from brand new.
     
  19. Jan 20, 2021 at 7:24 AM
    #79
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    When the dealer replaced my differential at 9000 miles they reported (as I wrote here earlier) that the gear oil was 'very dirty'. So if you don't have warranty coverage where the diff will be replaced by Toyota but decide to go ahead with doing the ECGS bushing replacement yourself, it would probably be a good idea to drain and refill the gear oil.
     
    Ruggybuggy likes this.
  20. Feb 19, 2021 at 1:39 PM
    #80
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    Dealer called me two week ago and told me that Toyota wanted the truck in to diag the noise further. Today they called to tell me the front diff just came in today and fhey will be replacing it on Tuesday.

    I'll be without my truck for almost three weeks.
     
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  21. Feb 19, 2021 at 2:12 PM
    #81
    bwh

    bwh New Member

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    So what's the plan til then? Did they give you a loaner since its under warranty or are you SOL?
     
  22. Feb 19, 2021 at 2:39 PM
    #82
    crewmaxlmt

    crewmaxlmt How dare you!

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    How does it take three weeks to replace a front diff?
     
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  23. Feb 19, 2021 at 3:36 PM
    #83
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    Wow, I'm surprised how this has gone for you since you hadn't posted an update since reporting on January 11th that they were planning to replace the front differential. In my case, replacement was immediately agreed to by Toyota and they shipped the diff to my dealer in less than a week.

    I think others have received immediate replacements too. Do you have a theory, or did they share with you, why Toyota wanted to do a complete diagnostic on yours versus just agreeing to a differential replacement with no delay?
     
  24. Feb 19, 2021 at 6:43 PM
    #84
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    You have to remember that I'm in Canada. I dropped the truck off two weeks ago because Toyota Corp decided they dealership had to do further diag. The dealership I took the truck to is not the selling dealer so I didn't expect a loaner. It's not a big deal, I have another vehicle I can use. Lots of Toyota parts come out of the States so it's not unusual for a week and a half delivery time. We also had a very cold snap so dealerships were very busy last week.
     
  25. Feb 20, 2021 at 8:30 AM
    #85
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    Good to know you aren't left without transportation. I still don't understand the 'further diagnosis' they require. What you originally described seemed to be the diff needle bearing failure Toyota knows about, so it's interesting they asked the dealer to look into this more. Regardless, it sounds as if they are planning to make this right for you and that's good news.
     
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  26. Feb 20, 2021 at 8:57 AM
    #86
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    I went for a ride with a tech the first time and together we had decided it was most likely the left side needle bearing in the front diff. Full disclosure, I'm a retired Toyota tech. I talked to the service manage before I left and he also agreed that it was the front diff. The service manager sent an email to Toyota Corp which was left unanswered for a couple of weeks. The service manager made a call and Toyota corp and they said they were having issues with the transfer cases as well and wanted the truck back so they could disconnect the front drive shaft to help pinpoint the location of the noise.
     
  27. Feb 20, 2021 at 11:05 AM
    #87
    CreekDweller

    CreekDweller [OP] Not so new ...

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    Thanks for sharing that. Do you know what the symptoms are of a transfer case issue?
     
  28. Feb 20, 2021 at 11:59 AM
    #88
    Sundog

    Sundog Zoom Zoom

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    Great thead. Having the Tundra re-geared soon. Perfect time to have the ECGS bushing installed.
     
  29. Feb 20, 2021 at 1:07 PM
    #89
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    While I was working we never saw any transfer case issues on the Tundra that I recall. Not sure why Toyota corp was thinking maybe a transfer case problem.
     
  30. Feb 20, 2021 at 1:08 PM
    #90
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    This is exactly what I plan on doing if my new diff starts making the noise again.
     

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