2020 Differential needle bearing failure

My 2020 Tundra is making the 'wush, wush, wush" sound from the front, drivers's side below 30 mph, that is linked to rotational speed. This started a couple of weeks ago. At first I thought it might be a wheel bearing, but after reading the archives here it seemed clear it was the differential needle bearing. There was even a link to a TSB on this issue updated in 2011. What a great resource this forum is!

At the dealer yesterday, the problem was confirmed to be the needle bearing. The dealer contacted Toyota with their assessment and Toyota authorized a new differential, due in a couple of weeks, under warranty. Kudos to the dealer for their handling of this.

I wonder about a couple of things though:

The archive postings I read about this problem were on 1st and 2nd generation Tundras. I didn't see any 3rd gen (edit: now called 2.5 gen) failures posted. Though I think the differential is the same for all 3 generations, the 2011 TSB mentions Toyota upgrading the bearing to remedy the problem, which may explain why there isn't much discussion about this on 3rd gens. However, if the bearing was upgraded, I wonder why this one failed. Thoughts ...?

The service rep at the dealer said I should continue to drive the vehicle, because according to him it was caught early and I should have no problem until the part arrives in two weeks. I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows differently.

Lastly, have any other 3rd gen Tundra owners here had this problem?

 

To answer in order
- probably just a fluke. Sweet on the dealer and Toyota for helping you out. I think crap just kinda happens. There’s always bound to be a issue with something somewhere.
-Not sure, but if you have a back up vehicle I’d definitely drive that. Could always drive it and if you have an issue such as a break down I’d definitely be calling the dealer and saying you told me this is fine but I broke down. What are you gonna do for me?
-I have a 2020, I haven’t had this issue. I do however notice if I forget to turn off A/C the next time I start the truck it’ll turn over fine. But then makes this god awful grinding noise for like .5 second. Like the compressor kicks on or something. Who knows.

 

Don't replace with factory - replace with the bushing from ECGS.

I did this on my 4runner and it eliminated a common wheel shake at 55-65mph.

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-1...amshell-bushingeliminates-needle-bearing.html

 

They’re going to replace the whole differential?

 

Yes, Toyota authorized replacement of the entire differential, amazingly. It seems like such a waste of their money, especially in light of the East Coast Gear Supply bushing replacement with a parts cost of $60. However, I won't go that route unless this problem occurs again and I'm out of warranty (I don't have any issues with wheel shake). If I were to do the ECGS bushing now, I'd lose the factory warranty on the differential and be out of pocket for the repair too. Since this seems to be an uncommon problem with 3rd gens, I'm hoping the diff replacement will be the end of it.

 

Absolutely man! I hope the replacement goes well and is the end of your issue.

 

Just scheduled my appointment today. Replacing the entire front diff. ‘19 w/26k

 

Interesting, so this issue has not been entirely dealt with. I have less than 9000 miles on mine.

 

My 2020 is also making the same noise and it will be going in after New Years. As soon as I put it in 4WD the noise goes away. Go back to 2WD and it comes back. It's a very similar sound to a bad wheel bearing.

 

This has been a known issue with Tacomas when a suspension lift is installed.

Do you all have lifts?

 

This is an issue on a lot of modern Toyota trucks.

Personally I would go with the ECGS bushing as it seems to completely resolve the issue. I understand letting Toyota deal with it under warranty, but I feel the problem will eventually return.

 

I’ve heard of it happening when they are lifted. Haven’t heard much about an unmodified Toyota truck having this issue.

 

Stock suspension.

 

What happens if you change the bearing and the noise is still there. Good luck trying to get warranty after that.

 

I’ve heard of some coming from factory low on front diff fluid and having this issue.

 

The truck is completely stock, not lifted. Until the warranty has expired, I will not install any aftermarket fixes as Ruggybuggy said.

 

If the needle bearing is the problem, and the ECGS clamshell bushing eliminates the needle bearing.. and you still have the noise.. then the needle bearing wasn't the problem and therefor would still be covered under warranty.

 

I personally know several Tacoma and 4runner owners who have had this problem, both with and without modified suspension.

 

Me too but not Tundras.

 

True. I've seen on these forum one person in the past who had problems with their needle bearing but have not been able to fond that thread.

Doesn't seem to be too common on the Tundra. Still, the bushing may be a solution. I understand the desire to have it fixed under warranty.

 

I had this happen on a 2017 Tacoma and Toyota replaced the entire front diff. Blew my mind the invoice was over $3k. It did fixed the issue. How long it would have lasted I don’t know. I sold it about a year later. If I would of kept it and the wamp wamp wamp came back I had planned on doing the ECGS bushing.
I did almost talk the service manager into putting the ECGS bushing in the first time. He insisted they replace the front diff under warranty.

 

Oddly enough I have an ECGS bushing and new CV axle sitting here ready to be installed in my ‘08, (stock height for now) just set up with a bushing installer tool for it last night with the help of my buddy that has a metal lathe.

I say oddly enough as I’ve never noticed a noise or vibration, just found the LH inner CV stub into the diff hot-dog-down-a-hallway sloppy and want to rectify it especially before I install my 6112’s.

I’m obviously out of warranty, and while I’m certain the ECGS bushing us a far more permanent fix, if I had warranty I’d have them replace as many diffs as possible. Only when warranty claims are numerous enough do the engineers get pushed to come up with a proper OEM solution.

 

Enough complaints cause action.

 

I had this issue on my 2010. It was lifted. I was out of warranty but had an aftermarket warranty that was good up to this point. They declined to fix it even though the dealer told them it was common on lifted and non lifted trucks. I went with the ECGS bushing instead. Problem never came back. According to the tsb, Toyota’s fix is to replace the entire diff even though it might not be needed.

I thought Toyota had fixed this issue cause I haven’t seen many complaints about it recently until now. I wonder how many warranty claims Toyota is paying out at $3k per claim. Seems like it wouldn’t take many claims before they “steal” ECGS’s design.

 

Good on the dealer for communicating issue to Toyota and getting it addressed.
A full front differential replacement guarantees the most consistency from a quality standpoint.
If there is already 1 known problem, there is higher potential for more issues. Full replacement is the best option for both dealer and customer.
The Tundra has a similar design but bigger diff than the FJ/4runner/ Tacoma.
I have done the ECGS on my Tacoma and can tell you it is not the end all solution. My DR CV still wobbles and clunks with the bushing.
Wheel bearings/ball joints/diff bearings should all be considered wear items. Especially when they see higher stress from lifts
I don't understand why people get upset that their lift caused components to wear faster. Just like complaining mpg is terrible after putting 35's on..

 

I had an old thread on this same question but never seemed to hear of any confirmed replacements or fixed with ECGS bushing. Makes sense on a 2020 to pursue the warranty route but seems like some early 3rd gens are due. I still haven't done mine even when I had the diff out for regear, just out of curiosity for how long it'll go.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/ecg...-for-front-diff-needle-bearing-3rd-gen.56438/

 

Go to the ECGS website and watch the video. He explains and shows the difference between Toyota's approach and Dana's approach. And I thought the Japanese were supposed to be good at engineering? That being said, it seems difficult to grasp having a bushing replace bearings for the long term. Especially if the original design was lacking in surface area (shoulder) of the spider gear.

 

A new diff under warranty is free. Buying needle bearings and labor to install is not. Let Toyota handle it for now, since that's the luxury you earn when paying for a new truck. If it happens again under warranty, go the free route again. Once you are out of warranty and it happens, then solve it permanently with the ecgs solution.

I follow George Costanza's take on paid parking, "That's like a prostitute. Why pay when if I apply myself, maybe I can get it for free."

 

Here's the video is anyone is interested.

I too was skeptical of the bushing wear. Roller bearings have the ability to transport gear oil to the point of contact as they spin, bushings do not. Increasing surface area and reducing lubrication are not good for wear.
After watching Tacomaworld threads for several years and people getting 100K+miles out of the bushing with no significant wear/ failures i was willing to give it a go and install one.
The bushing is a band-aid to help provide addition support, but as stated in the video, the lack of support of the inner shaft in the actual diff carrier is the large contributing factor.
Aftermarket front diffs provide better support, and in conjunction with the bushing seem to actually address the root cause.

 

Lots of interesting posts here, including Blackoutt's who posted a year ago asking if this issue was resolved in gen3. I've been on the list for a couple of years now and had read about the needle bearing failure, but thought it was limited to 1st and 2nd generation Tundras (plus Tacos, 4Runners and FJs). The TSB linked in a post found when searching about this problem claimed that Toyota had upgraded the needle bearing, so I assumed it was a successful remedy. But I count 4 of us here, including Endagon who replied to Blackoutt's post last year, with gen3 Tundras with the problem. That is a whole lot less failures than in earlier generations of Tundras, so I think that means that Toyota's upgraded bearing has largely, but not entirely, remedied the problem on non-lifted trucks. I expect that when the dealer installs my new differential that that will be the end of it for me - but, we'll see.