4.7 Leaking Head?

Hi All,

First time posting. Truck is a 2000 4.7 2wd Automatic with just over 200k miles.

I recently took it into a local shop (first time going there - seems like a reputable place though) for help diagnosing a power steering fluid leak (I'm new to DIY mechanics and trying to learn).

Instead of diagnosing the PS leak they apparently spotted a coolant leak so, without contacting me, they added a dye to the coolant and are claiming my engine's "head is also leaking".

I asked the few questions that I could think of e.g. why am I not seeing coolant leaking on the ground (apparently evaporating?), is it the head or the head gasket (they didn't know), can we just replace the heads and head gasket instead of the entire motor (they said they don't do either on 4.7 motors because the heads are prone to cracking?).

I've tried researching this issue and haven't found any information or similar issues so I'm turning to y'all for assistance. Has anyone heard of this issue? Is there any truth to what they're saying about the heads?

I'm planning to get a 2nd opinion from a different shop but haven't yet. As I typed this out, it's become more apparent that something doesn't seem right. I don't have any reason to doubt the shop but everyone makes mistakes so I'm hoping it could be that.

Thanks all.

 

What did they say about the PS leak?

 

They didn't say anything about the PS leak.

The invoice just says they found that it was leaking. It's a bad leak so that was stating the obvious lol

 

Get your truck back and take it somewhere else

 

Ask for their findings IN WRITING and tell them you need to think it over. Then take it somewhere else.

 

You took it in for a power steering leak. They did not address your requested concern. They failed the test. Then "discovered" an issue you had no idea existed with no symptoms noticed by you. An issue requiring expensive labor repairs (billable hours). I would be skeptical.

 

Thanks guys. I picked up the truck the other day telling them I'd need to think about next steps. I have the invoice in writing which literally says "Customer states PS Leak. Found that the rack and pinion is leaking and the head is also leaking."

I was skeptical as well but what was also strange is they seemed indifferent to doing the repair (they stated an engine replacement was needed). They didn't quote me on the spot seemingly expecting that I'd need time to think it over. They weren't pushy about doing the repair and didn't give me any doom and gloom sales pitch. They also said we could consider a junkyard motor which is odd from my experience of going to other shops which usually recommend new parts/components without exception.

Is there any truth to what they're saying about the heads on these motors?

 

I can't recall a single head gasket issue here off the top of my head, especially don't recall any issues with heads cracking. Are you actually loosing any coolant over time?

 

Take it elsewhere. Most of our racks leak slowly with age into the dust boots; unless it was pooling under the rack, they didn’t find the cause of your concern.

 

I haven't noticed any coolant loss but also haven't really been looking for it. I'll be monitoring from here on out.

I also haven't noticed any other symptoms e.g. temp gauge rising past the typical point or the engine overheating. There's no check engine light or codes.

I had the timing belt replaced 2 years ago (different shop) and have put less than 2k miles on it. When they replaced the timing belt they also replaced the radiator and didn't find a coolant leak.

 

This ^^

If these people don't specifically deal with Toyota, the 2UZ-FE is a very well known engine. Over here in this "everyone should read this" megathread, we cover the most common leaks, in the event you want to look yourself. I'll paste this here, but just know: It's 100% normal to find crusty (usually pink crusties, if the correct coolant is being used) buildup around some joints. Less-scrupulous shops could/will use that as "evidence of leakage". It's 100% not-normal for the "heads to leak" on these trucks, much less blow a gasket, even after an overheat. And, as your keen deductive skills have already detected, you're not losing coolant, so you properly spotted the con. Anyway, poke around, and see if you can find leaks in any of these spots. Most are a very cheap fix.

• Coolant leaks: Common sources here...
  • At/around the thermostat housing. Check this out, and alternately see this post is for leaks at t-stat housing/inlet neck.
  • The rear-to-front coolant bypass tube along bank 2 under the intake (video fix).
  • The coolant bypass housing between banks at the rear of the block (pics/info).
  • This reply contains links to three other off-brand/odbball leak cases.
  • For radiator leaks, this is one example of a tiny one - always replace with Denso brand radiator, and know different cab types use different sizes, careful where you order, scAmazon especially tends to deliver damaged products often (RockAuto has a spotless record with forum members). Proactive radiator replacement is wise. The transmission line routes through the bottom of the radiator ... go look up "pink milkshake", it happens in these trucks.
  • Here's a list of all things to check if you're losing coolant mysteriously, but you're not seeing white smoke/smelling sweet exhaust out of the tail pipe.

PS - find a new shop. Toyota specialty shop is best. But go in prepared. We have a lot of the info you need to arm yourself with right here in this forum and can provide a sanity check if you upload pics using the 'upload a file' button.

PPS - If timing belt was done that recently, it's worthwhile to verify the crank position sensor wire harness was routed correctly, behind the bracket, this is a common mistake to leave it in front of the bracket, where it gets nicked by pulley/belt. Sometimes the camshaft position sensor under the driver timing cover gets pinched by the water pump too.

PPPS - on the leaky steering rack, can you get a visual on where it's leaking? Sometimes using a seal conditioner like

$21 AT-205 Re-Seal Stops Leaks, 8 Ounce Bottle

AT-205 in the rack (add 3-4oz max) and driving around will refresh the old seals and quell leaks. It's not a "magic in a bottle" product, it just contains the same additives most oils already have when new, additives your fluid has likely exhausted a loooong time ago.

 

Post pics around the thermostat housing and around the various coolant crossover pipes

 

I appreciate all the info! It's leaking right below the high pressure lines on the driver side. I don't believe it's the lines themselves though. I've tried

$21 AT-205 Re-Seal Stops Leaks, 8 Ounce Bottle

AT-205 with no luck - I think the rack is shot.

Here's some images of the rad hose connections (and I think the thermostat housing?). Apologies for the naivety I'm not familiar with where all the various cross over pipes are or extend to.

 

Behind the thermostat housing is an o-ring under the intake. Look in there for a leak. Also both water crossover pipes have a gasket on each end at the mating surface. Can you take a pic of those?

 

Do the images/video in this post show the areas you're referencing?

https://www.tundras.com/threads/coolant-leak-bypass-pipe-o-ring.81275/

 

Follow up - The gentlemen in the video mentions two drainage holes at the back of the intake around timestamp 1:35 which he states allows water to flow down the back of the engine.

Could it be that there's a leak somewhere in the cooling system and the coolant is just running down these vents at the back of the intake making it appear like there's a larger issue when there really isn't... or am I totally off base here?

 

Yes absolutely. Take a flashlight and look carefully under the intake.

 

You need to know, there are at least three places (including crossover tubes) that could potentially send water draining into the valley between the driver and passenger rows of cylinders.

Due to the angle of the engine, any water getting into the valley from one of those sources would be likely to drain off the back of the engine. Again, I can't urge you enough to look at the links I posted. It's truly everything this community knows, often with pictures and sometimes even with video examples, of most coolant leaks you may find on this engine.

If you can track down the leak, any competent Toyota shop can do the repair, and it's totally possible you can do it yourself. But if you try to go to a "generalist" shop, or a shop with nobody familiar with this engine (which would be a huge red flag, Toyota put the 2UZ, the 1UZ and 3UZ in shitloads of their vehicles) would know exactly how to fix it.

 

Thanks! I appreciate your time and the assistance.

I searched under the intake as best I could without an inspection camera and couldn't see any evidence of leaks from the front connections so I assume (if there is even a leak) it has to be coming from the rear connections.

I'll be taking it to a specialty shop for a 2nd opinion!

 

Mine leaks at the back of the waterpump, theres an o-ring that contracts when its cold, and i drip a few drops until the engine warms up.

 

Before you do that take a careful look here and at the front ones

 

I have a question on those.
Going to pull my intake and go through anything that could leak, cause I have one somewhere:
Parts breakdown shows a gasket, but when i put into Toyota Parts website keeps saying no fitment. So is that just a FIPG on 2006 or does it take a gasket?

 

On my ‘02 i got those gaskets from rockauto, kinda guessed that the front and rear crossover gaskets were they same.

 

The coolant crossovers use metal gaskets with bonded rubber and yes front and rear are the same.

The water pump inlet has no OEM gasket and calls only for FIPG but RA sells a Delphi gasket for this

Pic below

 

I have a lot of subarus so have had a lot of HG leaks.

It's never been a subtle problem when it's coolant. It's a strong smell, or an overheating engine.

If you don't need to add coolant more than half a quart every year or two, it's not a problem and or doesn't exist.

 

Stealing Bryan's photo here only to share that the crossover/supply tube here is another one that likes to leak down the back of the engine (from that rear metal-to-rubber spot) or into the valley (from where the pipe intersects with the neck up front).

The reality is, there are a LOT of places for coolant to leak. We've ID'd most of the popular ones (see my reply #11 above for the list), you really need to look at the pics, watch those videos to fully understand where the coolant may be leaking. But I highly doubt the head is leaking. Given where the water jets are in the head/block, very close to the cylinders, it really doesn't make a damn bit of sense how/why the head would be leaking coolant. Unless I'm totally missing something (which is fully possible, I'm not a fucking genius ) but I'd be highly skeptical.

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Your middle name is TRD? Sweeeeet.