Welcome your thoughts on my 1st Gen plan…

Greetings. I am mostly a forum reader and relatively new owner of …


…a 2000 V8 TRD Pro 4x4 access cab, 253k miles and largely stock except for replacing dash, fog and rear lights with LEDs. It came with the step rails and has a storage system in the bed. I added the Diamondback HD. Drove it across country once and on a 2,000 mile road trip as well and love it. No rust, transmission “blip” during one gear change, otherwise great truck. (In photo 2, it’s not burning oil… was re-rigging my load, and the case of oil came with the truck!)

Previously grew up trail camping in the pre-overland era with a 1970s Chevy K5 4x4, and have some prior 4x4 training as well.

Ultimately this will be a trail/mountain/hunting rig, but I’m a couple years out from that.

Driving in 4 LO on a trail in the SW, it was clear that while the relatively new stock shocks were fine, I need a firmer system for off road (and generally). Felt like I was in a small boat in the backcountry and even paved roads in Indian country!

The Michelins on stock 16” wheels have some life in them, and per my timeline I intend to move to 17” wheels (probably Taco TRD or FN) and more aggressive tires when the time comes (Probably Falken, based on personal recommendations). Will probably spend 30% of time on trail, at altitude, and in snowy areas.

Having had a deer hit my front 1/4 panel on another vehicle (he leapt over a median barrier and landed there!) I have been looking at bumpers, saw an ARB Sahara in person and liked it.

So here is the plan, and questions:

1. wheel size up to 17”. No spacers, nothing more complicated.

2. Bilstein 5100s all around. Modest 1.5” lift, middle setting.

3. ARB Sahara. (No winch.)

- - Will I need upgrade/OME springs? What must I do to support and level the truck?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

That 3rd question could be answered reading the "Suspension, wheel and tires ..." section of this thread which may be worthwhile anyway before you commit.

#3 is something to consider when lifting, since it's adding significant weight to the front which will result in slightly less lift via more load/weight.

#2 be sure you're basing your expected lift results off other access cab owner's experiences, not what a double cab owner has claimed, or what you saw at some vendor website.

To answer your actual question, at 253k miles, your OEM springs may be flat worn out if never replaced. If I were you for a minute, I'd consider going with a new spring. If you go OEM (i.e. non-lifted), you'll need to run your 5100 up a couple of notches to achieve that lift. If you go with aftermarket (i.e. lifted, via Dobinsons, OME, Eibach, etc.) you need to be running on the bottom notch of the 5100 which may result in a nicer ride than relying on your old, tires springs being pre-compressed.

Knowing you're adding that weight up front, and you're V84WD, if you're considering OME as your brand of choice, 2885 should get you about level after the armor is installed, if no similar weight is used out back you may need to lift the rear a smidge. If you want a little forward rake similar , or you don't want to lift as much, 2884 would be the best option. If you weren't putting on armor in front, I'd probably tell you to run 2884s.

 

Thanks! Yeah I think I have pondered scores of threads in that forum… decided to go for the executive summary

That said, the front armor is the last thing I would do… sounds like OME springs plus (adjustable) Bilsteins allow me to go either way.

 

Yes, but some would warn you about using lifted springs and anything other than the bottom notch. I can't remember where that info came from, and I never got a straight answer from Bilstein ... but supposedly, someone at Bilstein, or someone familiar with Bilstein warned someone, somewhere down the line about using lifted spring in the 5100s; you're supposed to stick with the bottom notch.

 

You start there with lift springs and only go up if they don't lift as advertised.

 

Anything else/brand I should consider? The forum led me to the Bilsteins as a solution.

 

If you're worried about OEM springs being worn. You could do the 4600's and a lift spring to bring the $ down.


With the bumper weight you may need to redo the front (either add springs or change notches on 5100's) later down the road when you add it. If you do the upgrades in stages.

 

Is it a hassle to swap out the front springs at a later date? I may do the armor last due to expense.

A twist: the bed contains a Truckvault. Estimated weight with tonneau cover between 250 and 400 #. Wonder if I should add a leaf.

spoke with a mechanic who suggested a spacer block but this seems unnecessary.

 

Generic answer? As long as your spring is compatible and doesn't need any thing special, like different tophats, isolators, crap like that, sure...

Add a leaf ... maybe? The kit I installed required pulling the overload spring which I wasn't stoked about, so I'm selling it on the cheap, minus the extended u-bolts, over in the 1st Gen Marketplace. It gives about 3/4" lift. However, if you need to lift the rear, you may want to look at the spring pack linked in my sig, will give 1.5" - 2.0" lift with no added weight in the rear.

I don't recommend talking to mechanics about suspension. To me, that's like asking a line cook at Outback Steakhouse working the fryer how to cook a 7-course gourmet meal. Probably not the best resource. RE: "Spacer block" that is ... If you're talking about lift blocks, I don't recommend at all if you plan on towing (leaf wrap). If you're talking about strut spacers, ask questions before blindly installing, especially if you plan to use lifted springs/struts.

 

Bilstein will say they didn’t design/ build the 5100 for aftermarket springs. And that if you want the best bang for your buck on the valving, use OEM. That being said, I’m running 885’s, and I’m about to move them up to the second notch.

Who cares if the add a leaf company says to remove the overload. Leave it in if you want. Best spring packs are tossed together what is left behind the garage.

 

I did leave it in. And speaking from experience, it’s a bad idea, the rivets from the AAL pack dig into the overload spring, not only adding a pleasant CLUNK every time they engage, but that kind of focused pressure from the raised rivet head jamming into something flat, immobile, and ferrous will eventually crack something. Potentially not the overload cracking due to its thickness, maybe it’s gonna crack one of the much thinner Icon AAL added leafs, or snap the rivet, which was probably thicker than the thinner than the steel Icon chose to use for the leads. Their AAL is intended for Tacos, not Tundras, and it shows, but great if you just need firm up the rear and lift 3/4” or so out back and want to avoid using blocks.

Sad part is, removing the overload robs you of about 3/4”. If you could safely leave the overload in without risk of pack damage and annoying noises, you probably would get the 1.5” they advertise. I’m much happier with my ATS leaf packs though. I did get a little more lift at the end of the day but it looks perfect, and left me not needing to finagle with adjusting my coilovers. A bit annoyed with the clunking I’m getting out of the driver’s side pack though, and need to dig into that some more.

 

I think it’s going to be, in stages, Archive Shackleton MD leaf springs, 5100s and 885s, and bigger headers (one’s cracked & needs replacing anyway).

Because I can’t have a hilux with a pintle mount here.

 

Bilstein 6112/5160s are sitting in the truck now, awaiting install. New tie rod ends. Considering TC UCA and either prophylactic LBJ replacement or the TC uniball. (LBJs were replaced under recall but it was probably 150k miles ago).

 

I would not buy any of the uniball or delta joint uppers. Do yourself a favor, buy something with a sealed, easily replaceable upper ball joint like JBA or Eibach (SPC). You will thank yourself later, not only for the reduced maintenance, but also the absence of eventual noise.

Do replace the LBJ and new OEM bolts while lifting. 100k-125k miles if you use OEM. 20k if you dare to ignore enthusiast/community warnings about aftermarket failures. Look no farther than the 25-30 page thread on here loaded with failure pictures if you’re currently a non-believer.

 

Appreciate the response. This being the interwebz, I read things about unhappiness with the SPC/Eibach and the TC or Camburg being a better functional design, but pricier to repair and requires occasional lube. Is that the only reason not to uniball? I’m not particularly noise sensitive (I know people who replaced perfectly good tires because of “road noise” - turned out to be a bushing!)

I’ve read the thread and am a believer (as well as the thread on bolts) definite consensus on the LBJ issue. Costs on OEM vs. TC seem six of one, half dozen of the other.

Until next summer the truck is a daily driver with a short commute and biweekly shopping trips on level ground; then my primary criteria will be “what have I done to reduce chances of being stranded somewhere in the San Juans?”

 

I haven't seen a ton of unhappiness with the SPC units. Some complaints related to part of the UBJ production run where they had slop in their joints, but that seems to be limited and no logner an issue, and now they offer three flavors of UBJ? I think it's similar to the complaints about ICON coilovers and the leakage issues they were having for a while, that don't seem to be a problem anymore.

You want to know my opinion on delta/uniball? Don't have a good, short response for that. Gonna rant for a sec instead and I'll get to that.

Look, here's what I'll tell you. I think there's a major disconnect on the internet regarding suspension and tires. Specifically, people giving advice not only have different tastes and tolerances, but they also, like more often than not, absolutely fail to ask the person they're giving advice to some basic "W"s:

• Where [in the world] will you be using your truck?
• What and/or hoW will you be using your truck?
• Why are you doing these upgrades?
• When and/or hoW often will you be doing it?
• Will you be mostly on-road or off-road, aka "What mixture of driving"?

When you're out there reading about suspension, you need to keep all these questions in mind amd really critique and compare yourself to the people who are making recommendations and giving praise. Because what works for the guy hucking it in the dunes, or the guy who is primarily crawling mountains, or the guy mudbogging ... may not work for you.

Beyond that, you also need to understand, wholly, a lot of people out there want to justify their purchase, and do so with dogmatism, elitism, without having a first or second fuck to give about what's best for you. Everyone wants to justify where they put their money, BEFORE they think about what's best for your situation.

I'll use myself as an example here, but also drum up some examples from other places and shit I've seen since diving into the journey of lifting/offroad versus sport/lowered suspension which was what most of my life was. I've worked on a lot of fun ass projects over the decades.

I would say in retrospect, "Where" is probably the most important thing anyone can ask you, and you can ask yourself. And this is where I'm using myself as an example. I'm an angler, a hiker, and a camper living in the southeast, at the base of the Applachian mountain range. What's appropriate for my needs is so far away from what someone in Arizona who's hucking it over dunes in the desert is going to need. My truck runs thru water. It gets rained on. It's running thru muddy clay, and occasionally on ice or in snow albeit in unsalted areas which I think is also an important factor.

Clay silt specifically has a penchant for oozing into everything. I have no doubt the silt alone will leave open uniball/delta joints singing after a couple of trips. I know, some have caps to cover the joint from ooze and help avoid that , but ... still. Likewise, some people in the rust belt are running their trucks over salted roads, and salt water getting up in delta/uniball joints isn't a death sentence, but it just means extra maintenance. Last but not least, a lot of the tubular products that employ delta/uniball, at least the China-manufactured ones like Freedom and KSP, I've seen a couple now on Bookface where the the ball sleeve straight up broke off the arm. Some caution is warranted with that design if you'll be hucking, although the last guy I saw with snapped KSP uppers like 2 months ago only did on-road.

I started off like a lot of others: Reading up all I could. Getting opinions from guys & girls on here that have killer builds. Much of them in Cali and Arizona, and I didn't stop to think about that for a minute, consider my terrain, and how my usage is totally different. Thinking I needed X, Y, or Z similarly, because that was the shit, which, in their case, it probably is for what they're doing. I bought coilovers, even though I've used them a hundred times and they're always considerably stiff compared to a traditional strut (yes, valving plays a role here obviously, but that's a whole other topic), and I bought mine from a company with a great rep in the ATV world, Elka (rebranded as Toytec product).

Do they suck? Hell naw. They're fucking awesome over woop-de-woos! But 75% of my offroad driving since is over mountain roads, rocky as fuck, ruts galore from washouts, and the other 25% is fire roads/NF roads. My coilovers are, frankly, pretty brutal used that way. But honestly, I think a larger-bodied shock like the Bilstein 6112 would actually be better for my specific function than this coilover. I got a pair at a good price from another forum member, just need to assemble and install but that likely won't happen until closer to Thanksgiving. I kinda wish I'd have thought it through a little more before. I personally loved coilovers on lowered vehicles because I actually would fine-tune, tweak etc. I've done that all of zero times with my truck ... no need, for what I'm doing. If anything, I'd drop them 3/4" because I'm a little squat right now, but don't want to for fear of more rubbing.

And on that rubbing point ... The same shit goes for tires. Same fucking problem. First off, "no rub" with moderately oversized is virtually myth, you're gonna rub something once you start pushing more than 1.5" over stock diameter. It can be mostly avoided, if you're thoughtful about alignment and you pull your front mudflaps, and you never have high-compression events - sorry, but even on the streets around here, I turn and compress at the same time, and eat fender liner.

Furthermore, the insistance I see suggesting you NEED to be running 33s (285/70r17) are larger on your truck is semi-comical to me, it's a farce. Maybe if you're really hardcore crawling you need that extra meat. If you ride in areas where deflating will help with shock and ride quality or avoiding getting stuck, sure. I don't do any of that. I'm perfectly happy with my 275/70r17 (32.5") even if they're E-rated, they actually rub half as much as the 50%-tread-left 285/70r17s (32.8") C-rated tires I've currently got on the truck. They're a tad softer on the road with small bumps, but noisy as fuck. The reality? If you look at pics, it's really difficult to see the difference between the two. And to that point, I bet I could put on an aggressive 265/70r17 (31.6") and I'd gain ~1"-1.25" over stock depending on the tire specs and you couldn't see the difference between that and the 32.5" I originally had.

Anyway ... Lessons learned? Some of this I've posted elsewhere and linked to from the new owner megathread's suspension/wheel/tires section:

• Be honest with yourself about your usage before you commit to anything
• consider whether those advising you have your specific climate/environment/usage in mind, or if they're just telling you what's best for them and/or what they prefer/like
• Be honest with yourself about how you'll use your truck, and how much time you'll actually spend offroad, because if you throw a full-offroad setup on your truck when you're 80% city driving, highly likely you'll regret some of your choices
• More money doesn't equal "best", don't get sucked into it - I'd urge this especially after seeing how many people are going with $1k+ aftermarket lowers with a positive benefit 95% of drivers will never realize (i.e. it's brag/show material, nothing more)
• Always have three critical things in mind: Maintenance, longevity, durability.
  • If I'm buying a coilover that needs rebuilding every 30,000 versus a Bilstein 6112 adjustable strut that costs 75% less with a lifetime of 80k-100k miles, how is this even a question?
  • If I'm buying an upper with a delta/uniball joint that requires attention 1-2x a year and/or every 5k-10k miles and takes extra effort or tools to press out, versus a UBJ that unbolts/re-bolts in with standard fasteners, how is that even a question?
  • I could go on, but I wont...
• Always set a budget for yourself and stick with it.
• Work in phases/stages if you can, never have more than two major upgrades going on at any given time.
• Don't think that just because you made a choice and installed it, "that's it, I'm stuck"; I've lost probably $2k so far on my truck in decisions I wasn't happy with, IT'S OK!

Anyway, we've got some hardcore dudes who are spending all their time out there. And I'm grateful for their input. But If I were to compare myself, my usage, my lifestyle to anyone on here, it's gonna be closer to an @empty_lord, for example, than it would be a @des2mtn or @FrenchToasty or @oscardog86. When I originally setup my truck, I was aiming more in the ballpark of those three. I should've probably been aiming a slightly different direction.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Thanks for your post, which allowed significant insight into your decisionmaking. Environments and use cases are specific, and particularly with the conditions you describe, make sense for your AO - I’ve seen those Tennessee threads.

Rest assured I’ve pored over the new owner threads, conducted searches, and so forth prior to posting.

Beginning with the five whiskey hotel also makes sense. In this case, my intended AO is the backcountry in the intermountain west and high desert (plateau at altitude, really). Some prior experiences there, also old wagon trails in the Great Basin in an old k5 blazer, and driving a few hiluxes & g wagons in shitholes abroad influence my own planning and sense of what I want to get my vehicle into. Going places and bearing significant load in the lockers, yes. Sport rockcrawling, racing, & hauling sheets of plywood, not so much. Crossing a bouldery dry wash, yeah.

With 260k on it now… it’s definitely getting a slow rebuild. 17” can wait; given I’ve moved my own ammo cross country… I’ll eventually replace the leaf springs too having hauled inappropriate if well-balanced and load planned loads in other vehicles. Part of the initial look at load planning for the truck is based on moving myself with it from one coast to another, with some trail time in between. The OEM or Kyb replacement is like being on a couch on a boat…

I’ll continue to post as the build proceeds apace.

 

My RCLB had 17" wheels on it when I bought it and I replaced them with 16" tundra alloy wheels. Unless it's lifted, 17" wheels will not create an opportunity to put taller tires on it. The front fenderwells limit that. The 16" wheels will allow taller sidewalls. Mine rides much better with 16"'s.

 

Thanks to everyone who replied. Cost/benefit led me to have the SPC upper control arms installed. Afterwards I discovered a friend has JBAs on his gen3 and might have used those instead.

Previously steering rack and tie rods done in 2024, so almost everything having to do with steering or suspension was replaced, including OEM Toyota lower ball joints, lower control arms, Eibach front springs, Archive Garage MD rear leaf springs, new bump stops, sway bar end links, leaf spring brackets, pretty much every rubber bushing I could replace… and Bilstein 6112/5160.

Cracked rear transfer case replaced over Christmas & added skid plate (nobody would weld it) so only the front bumper & skid plate remains to be done.

I’ll run the transmission until it fails, then replace with the later unit.

Very pleased- drives and handles like a new and different truck. No off-road use yet, but railroad crossings and potholes no longer result in wallowing. Stiffer response, almost like a European car.

Concluded a backup camera will be useful as the rear lift obscures my view in parking lots.

Only downside: the tires are new, and a buddy asked me “are you getting bigger wheels? It looks like your truck skipped leg day.”

 

Yup, I recommended JBA above. It's a killer option if you don't need the added adjustability the SPC offers, which ... One, most people don't, and two, trying to find a shop that understands how to adjust them has proven difficult for myself and others. My shop has a bunch of offroad heads working there, and they refused to touch the UBJ top nut on the SPCs. I think most people doing a standard lift and not going wild with their tire/wheel option are better served with the JBA. Far better than the tubular bullshit garbage KSP, Freedom Offroad, and others are putting out there. Pro-tip on the SPC's - if anyone ever touches them, always (A) make sure their upper balljoint and its retainer is properly centered in the slot and (B) the toput is properly torqued to spec after. Especially after alignments. If that top nut comes loose while hucking it, after hitting a big pothole, you're paying for a new alignment. It's one of the reasons the Toyota shop I used for alignment doesn't recommend them, and won't touch the UBJ top nut.

Camera: This may help.

Tires: You don't need bigger wheels. Yes, the truck would look better with 1" more tire. Those OEM starfish are 16" and I think the stock tire size is 265/70r16. If you were to upsize 1" of meat to 265/75r16 it would probably make a substantially visible difference. Pro tip: You may be able to find a used set on FB Marketplace at a reasonable price. After buying 275/70r17 for my truck, and wanting to test out how it looked if I'd have gone with 285/70r17 (spoiler: Visually at 10ft away it was almost ZERO difference in the added 0.4" of tire), I sourced a set of used Wildpeaks in 285/70r17 for $320 mounted to steel wheels. I sold the wheels for $125, ran the tires for a while, hated them, went back to the 275's, sold the two better 285s for $200, and recycled the other two. It was a break-even for me, minus the tire mounting costs.