Your thoughts on the lack of workers- Great Dave Ramsey with Mike Row video

When we lived in Indiana they passed legislation that capped property taxes after a big blow up of bad publicity. Seems an older part of Indianapolis had become trendy, and a few retired widows living on SS had been taxed out of their homes.

Your solution depends on where someone is in their life, aming other factors. One part I strongly disagree with is cashing out equity and paying interest on that loan on top of paying the taxes. While technically an option, I don't like it.

Otherwise, I kinda see your point, but still don't think The Man deserves a dime more just because I had a rich asshole move in next door. It's adding insult to injury, lol.

Back to being young again. I recall being able to rent an (admittedly small and aged, but not unsafe) apartment in an area where nobody worried about crime on a part time minimum wage job (while in college). Don't know how possible that is these days.

 

Great article. A little dated (2016). The sq ft per person increases over time and the % of space actually used are crazy. It’s crazy what people think they need these days.

Need is a strong word.

 

Something else to consider is the lack of nice turn key ready homes under the 2750-3200sq-ft range in a lot of markets. Back in 2013 when we were looking to buy our current home, the market was still depressed from the Great Recession but inventory in our small town in the southern Black Hills was and remains very limited.

At that time there was a distinct gap in prices between the nominal $150-$175K homes mostly built in the 1970’s and 1980’s, usually sub 2000sq-ft; and the newer homes usually $200-$250K on up usually about 2500sq-ft and up. This really doesn’t help new buyers who aren’t in high paying jobs.

All of the more reasonably sized options needed $25K or more worth of updates, or strait up repairs. We utilized a VA loan and the appraisal process can be sticky sometimes and that lead us to look at more house than we needed because those houses were newer and needed less or no work at all. Immediately we noticed not just more space, but nicer materials: better fixtures, better utility’s, nicer solid wood doors, much nicer windows etc.

In the end we bought a newer home that is 2976sq-ft including the fully finished basement: 5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 2 car garage, and an office and a room I set up for firearm storage and ammunition reloading. The market was down and the sellers came down from $260K to $225K. We have since put another $17K in it putting in mini-split AC units, and $40K putting on an F-Wave class 4 roof because it hails here a lot. This year we plan to burn $10-12K on a nice rear deck because the backyard doesn’t exist on account we’re on the side of what is effectively a cliff.

When we first moved in we didn’t even realize we had a hell of a view until the first night in the house. It was just two of us. Eventually we added 2 dogs, and a kiddo to the mix. It was still a ridiculous home for our purposes. Then in 2020 my dad died of a massive heart attack. My mom was alone trying to keep up with a decent sized home in the woods down in the Ozarks. After 2 years it was just too much, so she sold it and took us up on our offer to live with us. Now with 3 adults a 5 year old and 2 dogs, it seems about right. I am thankful every single day now that we bought more house than we needed at the time. Life and death happens, situations change. We are casually looking around and contemplating something with more garage space and 3800-4000sq-ft. My mom likes not being alone, and my wife likes having a second adult around when I’m traveling for work, but more space wouldn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. Plus I can rent this place out for probably double my mortgage. I guess I’m becoming part of the problem LOL.

 

I promise I hate cherry picking posts - but the last baker's duzzy or so of these haven't been this at all - despite the media's blitzkrieg attempt to frame each one that way. I do happen to agree with you, though. The 24 hour news media politburo has 1 job: it's to sell you the 25th hour. And they do that with lies, damned lies, and fear.


Carry on everyone. Enjoying this thread.
On topic- workers can't afford to live where they work. See any resort town / epic-pass town / etc. 100% corporate greed with the oligarchical backing of local/state/ federal politicians (because guess who gets PAID).

 

I won't judge you, to each their own I guess!! I have a 1700 sq ft house, and dread cleaning day, I cannot even imagine having double that too clean! I also don't have a husband or kids, it's just me, so I guess there is some level of not being able to relate to needing that much space. I do however see lots of families with 2-3 kids living happily in 1700 sq ft homes in my neighborhood, and lots of them seem to spend there days outside playing when the weather is amenable! I think when you share a smaller space it promotes the need to be outside in the open air!! Just my thoughts, like I said, I cannot directly relate. I would move out of this state if my mom ever wanted to move in with me!

I think as a society, we have moved from appreciating a nice large outdoor space to share and enjoy, to now we need a large indoor space so that everyone can enjoy their electronics all weekend in a separate space! I am not saying this is every family, but I think it's a good majority, espcially as the kids get older and want less to do with the parents and family!

-T

 

Sometimes I feel sorry for the younger generation but most times I do not. I have a coworker who spends $500 a month on gourmet drive through coffee and eats every meal out. They also have the newest iphone with the unlimited plan and are leasing a expensive new car and complain they dont have money for a house.

College prices and value is also a HUGE waste. I think it was Mike Rowe who said that we are lending money we dont have to kids who cannot pay it back to train them for jobs that do not exist. I paid my own way through jr. college with a service job. and have a technical AS degree and am now making good money and am debt free except for my mortgage.

You cannot have this conversation without getting political and mentioning the culture war that is raging. Many people now expect the govt. to provide for them and keep voting themselves into servitude and the free shit army marches on. Chicago voted 95% D in the last election and now they are complaining about illegals being sent there and getting benefits. There is a push for universal income and some "kid" was on twitter complaining that he really didn't want to achieve anything in life but felt it was unfair that he should have to work for money to just live. There are people in power who are pushing to do away with all cash and have the govt. control your money and decide how much of it you need.

Please see my profile signature

 

What is this "cleaning" you speak of? Once or twice a year I'll sweep up some of the dirt and hose down the bathrooms... .

Many ways to live... Way back when I had a career and made $160k/yr in today's money, I rented a room in other people's houses, and banked. Then I lived in an old Toyota PU for 13 years (sometimes with a roommate and a dog). Then a couple of 300 sq ft efficiencies that I shared with another person. Then we got an 800 sq ft apartment, and now in a 1700 sq ft house... which has been all for me the last 2 years.

Living in the PU was the best. Back then it wasn't a "thing" so it was easy to camp out in the boonies, far from the things of man, and not see anyone. No internet, no cell phones, nobody knew where I was. Didn't need to work because I spent hardly anything (~$5k/yr in today's money).

The dwelling is just a place to store stuff, and crawl in when the weather is bad... which is pretty rare when you can move with the seasons

I can afford this house, but I don't want it. I'm going back to vagabonding... probably til I'm too old to do it.

One thing about houses... the average rate of appreciation has been so high since the 90s that there really hasn't been any downside to buying bigger... even in non-trendy locations. The extra appreciation will more than compensate for your costs, so long as you can stay in one spot for several years. Don't expect the future to be like the past, though...

Speaking of stuff...

https://youtu.be/MvgN5gCuLac

 

Well said my friend.

 

The only thing I disagree with is that you said "College" is essentially a huge waste of money. I can honestly say I had to go to college to do the two career paths I chose, and feel that college being a waste is far from the truth. I make just under 100K a year, and I wouldn't be making nearly that if I hadn't gone to college! (I am a woman and had no interest in trade jobs). Going to college has allowed me to live comfortably, even as a single person owning a home in a high cost of living area. The other side of that is that college CAN be a huge waste of money if you force your kids to go to college and they sign up for a "useless degree" because they have no idea what they want to be when they grow up, or if they pick a major they are not really passionate about and end up not wanting to do it or if the job sounds great, but the pay isn't! My friend's daughter wanted to go to school to be a vet tech, which is an associates program. 20K plus for this degree and most vet techs only make 30-50K a year max!! It's all relative, college is not a waste of money or time, as long as you choose wisely!!

-T

 

That's harsh duty, too! "I like animals"... becomes hard (and dangerous) work, drudgery, and actually killing lot of animals for low pay.

Tech and methods are changing so fast these days, that a "hot field" might be a lot less hot when you graduate, and much of the education outdated. It's very important to be realistic and smart about this.

Something I've read but don't have any first hand knowledge of, is that most developed countries require prospective college students to display aptitude for their chosen field and pass rigorous tests... and enrollment in fields of study coincides with predicted industry demand... and then tuition is free if you are accepted. Getting into college isn't easy, especially for the more competitive fields... but you are not wasting your time, and you aren't paying back loans when you get out. Seems pretty sane...

Our colleges are not the worst part of our education system, though...

 

I think college and university have their place, but that place is being greatly diminished. A 4 year degree isn't worth what it once was.

I had average grades in high school, but good enough to get into the decent colleges or universities in Canada if I wanted. I looked at a couple of options that interested me like wildlife managment (to be a fish cop), biology (to work with fisheries) and I even looked at mechanical engineering (too much math!). My take away was that I'd put out $20K - $50K or more to get a 4 year bachelor's degree in fields where a masters is the only way to really make more than $65K a year.

I'm grateful I went to tradeschool where I paid $1000 per year for a 4 year apprenticeship and cracked $100K in my 3rd year. Sure, I worked alot and worked very hard. 70 hours weeks at -40 degrees out in the field before I got into a shop environment a couple years later. I'm better off for it.

I have friends who went to school for things like psychology and have racked up $100K in student debt because they discovered a bachelor's degree isn't worth diddly squat when everyone and their dog is doing the same thing. A master's or PhD is pretty much minimum requirement to really get ahead in that field.

Then there's the people I know who went to school for 4 - 6 years for gender studies, dance theory or something like underwater basket weaving. When they complain about not being able to afford a house, all I have to say to them is "yes, I'd like fries with that.".

 

Sounds like Canada is no better than the US in this respect.

There are people making a living advising students on things like this, right? Apparently their pay is tied to some performance metric other than "student satisfaction and success".

Even though people are treated as adults at age 18, we now know that brains don't fully mature until much later: "The most important brain area to become fully “wired up” in adulthood is the prefrontal cortex — the front portion of the frontal lobe. This area handles many of our higher-level cognitive abilities such as planning, solving problems, and making decisions. It is also important for cognitive control — the ability to suppress impulses in favor of more appropriate actions. The adult brain is better wired for cognitive control compared to the adolescent brain, which is more influenced by emotions, rewards, and social acceptance when it comes to making decisions. Fluid intelligence, which includes abilities like solving problems and identifying patterns, peaks around age 30."

 

No doubt the house was absurd when we bought it. But given the state of our market it was either buy a dump that needs a ton of work, or buy a bigger house that’s ready to go. There was no option in the middle.

We were lucky enough to buy at the bottom of the market in the last 15-20 years, and then refinance at an absurdly low interest rate.

I couldn’t touch this place today for under $450-$475K, maybe more.

 

Correction, not all college is a waste but kids not having direction or knowing what they want to do and getting 10's 0r 100's of thousands into debt for useless degrees like interpretive dance and gender studies is a waste. We are also pushing college too much as being the only choice for a good career. I am a huge Mike Rowe fan and I do know tradespeople who are making 6 figures.

I sometimes think maybe it would be a good idea to do like Israel and require kids to do 2 years of military or public service out of HS.

I think the movie Idiocracy has become a documentary.

I purchased my first house 25 years ago. It was a small 800 sq. ft cottage style that my wife and I worked our buts off for 20 years remodeling and redoing from the roof to the plaster and siding, electrical and the whole deal. We bought it for 35K and sold it for 85K after it was all paid off. We used the equity to purchase our current 1500 sq ft house which has now double in value in 6 years.

 

White supremacists? Please check your facts.

 

Sure, here are some facts. I've seen you dispute this two or three times now while providing no credible evidence yourself; why are you so insistent on defending/denying a repulsive part of our society?

 

Guns are mostly a status/ego symbol... kinda like big pickups... The right tool for the "tyranny issue" looks more like the gun below.

No reason to conflate guns and open borders. Illegal immigration is... you know... illegal, for a good reason. Anyone wanting to come here to live needs to go through proper channels, and we do accept refugees.

 

ADL is a source of nothing but lies.

Not a fact.

But I can't convince you of that.

 

To put us slightly more on topic...

Roughly 50% of Millenial/Gen Z are foregoing having children (here's an article). Adding in the huge number of boomers retiring in the next 5-10 years, it seems pretty hard to deny a coming recession in our labor pool. I think things are probably only going to get worse before they get better.

Honestly, a bit curious how large the downstream effects of a rapidly shrinking workforce will be on our economy/stock market reliant on constant growth. I think it will definitely be good for bargaining power/maybe a return to increasing wages for millenials & gen Z, but will that be offset by the stock market plummeting as consumption goes down? No idea on either outcome, just some curious food for thought.

 

Can you provide any sources as to what you say? I'm at the point where I'm just going to start ignoring your responses since they appear to be entirely based on feelings.

 

Anyone who doesn't vote Dem is now considered a white supremacist.

 

Your sources are all mainstream. How does one prove anything anymore online?

Wait, let me setup a website saying ADL is a source of lies, funded by the NWO.

 

I'm hoping you are correct.

 

Ah, starting to remember why I dropped out of this thread earlier...

 

I know how this works.

I reference a site, it's called extremist and you disregard it.

You reference a site, I call it mainstream, and I disregard it.

This is the misinformation age. Can't rely on online "sources".

 

I also know a classic tactic is labeling. "white supremacist".

When we were kids, it was called name calling, and considered childish.

 

Y'all are gonna get this thread locked. Such a shame, it's been a good conversation until now.

 

Imagery and labeling is very powerful. Whoever paints the best image wins the hearts and minds of the people.

Today it's called "news". Also, whoever "wins" writes the "history books" from their perspective.

For example, the english colonists who "rebelled" against the king were considered "rebels". Nowadays they'd be called "terrorists" or "insurgents". From the american perspective, they are considered "freedom fighters". Today we know it as the "declaration of independence" in the US. I'd imagine it's written different in the UK?

Or, in Star Wars, we have the "empire" and the "rebellion". Both fighting for a "cause".

Or the "deep state" vs "patriots".

What's real or true anymore? That's for each of us to discern. Sadly it's not black and white.

 

I'm not going to dispute this data, but IMO we need to look at the big picture when assessing whether a problem is big enough to worry about. 225,000 people die accidentally in the US every year, usually sudden violent deaths... so 20-30 dying from extremist events is a pittance. A rational person would give that a threat rating of 0.00 in the grand scheme of things.

No... this is coinciding very well with the coming AI revolution. Human workers will become increasingly useless... ie unable to have any competitive advantage (vs AI) that justifies a decent wage. So people who have no interest in work or doing anything productive, or raising families, will fit right in. Welfare will increase and the middle class (who still have jobs) will be pitted against the lower class, as always. The socio-economic system will need to change drastically, but I suspect there are very smart people (and smart AI) utilized by the wealthy and powerful, who have this pretty well figured out. Productivity will boom, so there will be no shortage of wealth... there will just no longer be a reason to waste it on the masses. The oligarchs will shift to building what they want directly using mostly AI slaves, instead of skimming profits off total economic activity. It will be more like a very efficient feudal system. Democracy will disappear (if it even exists now..?). The human population will plummet, either slowly (a couple generations)... or quickly.

This is actually the rosy, optimistic scenario in which some humans have a bright and amazing future. I think anyone posting on this forum has ~0% chance of being one of those, however. And it's quite possible (likely?) that this transition will not be managed well at all... that the chaos and struggle for power and world domination will become destructive for all. And the crazy thing is that it's impossible to stop. Unless AI development stalls for technical reasons, this is pretty much inevitable.