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Who is running a single 12" sub?

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by 1lowlife, Oct 13, 2020 at 7:07 AM.

  1. Oct 13, 2020 at 7:07 AM
    #1
    1lowlife

    1lowlife [OP] Toxic prick..

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    So who is running a single 12" sub?
    I need info more on double cabs, but I'll take input and opinions from anyone.

    I have a JL Audio SB-T-TUNDB3, the twin 10" Stealthbox.
    It has 2 10TW3-D4 subs in a sealed enclosure.
    Running an Alpine PDX V9 pushing 525 watts RMS for the sub channel.

    I've never been happy with it.
    It doesn't sound good at all.
    I've been told by JL Audio 525 watts will run it just fine.
    I've been told by others I'm underpowering it.
    I tried a JL Audio JX1000/1, it sounded the same, so I sent it back.
    I've been told by other others that the JL Audio shallow mount subs aren't all that great to begin with.
    So the search is on to replace it.

    I think I want a sealed enclosure, since I want tight clear normal sounding lows.
    I think a ported box would be too sloppy for the music I listen to.
    I have a variety of music interests, but mostly rock, alt rock, older country (XM Prime country), some light techno beats (XM Chill).

    A shop a couple hours away from me makes custom sub enclosures.
    We've been emailing back and forth, I told him my story, wants and needs.
    They have more than helpful, he even read thru my long detailed emails to JL Audio.
    We discussed putting the 10TW3-D4s in one of his enclosures, but said he didn't want to sell me something and have it sound the same.

    I don't want to buy another amp, the doors sound fine, for the most part.
    I asked him based on the amp output I currently have, what he would suggest.
    He suggested a single 12" in a sealed enclosure.

    Specifically this sub, ARC Audio SW12:
    https://www.arcaudio.com/store?p=103869

    [​IMG]





    In this enclosure, although he may make changes to meet the volume specs of the sub:
    https://netaudio.com/product/2014-up-toyota-tundra-double-cab-sub-box-downfire-single/

    So, anyone running a 12" sub?
    If so, which one, what enclosure, and what amp are you running?
    Are you happy with it?

    Anyone had experience with Arc Audio?
    I've never heard of them.

    I don't mind paying a little to get what I want.
    I've been frustrated with this $1000 Stealthbox for 5 years.
    It is time to get the audio of my Tundra in order.

    Any input and opinion appreciated..
    Thanks
    1LL
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020 at 7:15 AM
  2. Oct 13, 2020 at 9:26 AM
    #2
    MillMatter

    MillMatter New Member

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    I am planning on getting a sub setup from JRT at Tech12Volts and when I relayed my desires to him (tight, controlled bass that still hits hard) he recommended 2 Arc Audio 10’s in a ported box for my CrewMax. He only recommends quality stuff so I am guessing that Arc 12” is legit.
     
    1lowlife [OP] likes this.
  3. Oct 13, 2020 at 9:36 AM
    #3
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    I'm running a single 12" sub with the tech12volt install kit (Non-JBL).

    I have DC and I'm very happy with it.

    I think your performance issue is more hardware related than sub?
     
    Tundyfundy and 1lowlife [OP] like this.
  4. Oct 13, 2020 at 9:46 AM
    #4
    rock climber

    rock climber New Member

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    I've had multiple different 10 and 12 subs in different boxes and I can't say I notice a huge difference between the size, but I do notice a huge difference with a decent sub. I've not hear the JL shallow mounts subs so I can't say, but even the entry level 10 JL subs sound pretty solid to me.

    Do you know anybody with a 12 inch sub in a box they'll let you put in your truck just to hear it?
     
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  5. Oct 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM
    #5
    jalam321

    jalam321 New Member

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    I have two JL audio 10TW3D4 with a JL audio HD900/5 amp. (in crewmax) I am happy with the bass and sound.
    What did you not like about it? Not enough bass? Or not loud enough? Depending on what you didn't like before...I'm not sure if a single 12" will solve your issues.
     
  6. Oct 13, 2020 at 10:16 AM
    #6
    fisherman951

    fisherman951 LT dreams ....

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    Wasn’t it you that had the stealth box with the wrong subs? How did that go with JL?
     
  7. Oct 13, 2020 at 10:40 AM
    #7
    aparker813

    aparker813 New Member

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    I have the same stealthbox powered by a JL 750/1 and I'm with you - its lacking. RTA will confirm that it has very very little output from about 40hz down, which is very apparent on some songs. Guy that was doing my tuning believed it was a function of two subs in such a small box. Considered changing to a single 13.5TW5v2 in as big a box as I can find to fit, but those seem to get pretty mixed reviews.
     
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  8. Oct 13, 2020 at 10:49 AM
    #8
    BecauseRacecar

    BecauseRacecar New Member

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    XM radio isn't a particularly high quality audio source, right? Unless they've made major changes to stream quality in the last few years. I'd check with a CD or phone plugged using a high quality recording before making any major changes.

    That being said, nothing beats a 12" for low-end response.
     
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  9. Oct 13, 2020 at 11:37 AM
    #9
    1lowlife

    1lowlife [OP] Toxic prick..

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    First, thank you all for the responses.

    I considered JRT as well.
    But he is hit and miss on email responses, more hit than miss.
    He is a great guy and has helped me in the past.
    But I know he keeps very busy with his shop.

    Maybe I need a ported box.
    But from what I read, ported leans more to rap and hiphop, 2 things I don't listen to.
    Besides that, 2 10s in a ported box would take up my entire area under the rear seat.
    I would even have to remove the jack and the jack mount.

    Also the guy I emailed to is closer, I'd rather not have it shipped if I can go pick it up.
    They ship FedEx and I have very little faith in them.

    I need to research Arc some more.

    What do you mean 'hardware' related?
    You think my PDX V9 is lacking?

    The sound it produces is dull, lifeless, muddy, rumbling, messy, and unclear.
    My Sony earbuds sound better running off my iPhone.
    It's loud enough, I only listen at low to moderate volume.
    It just sounds unclear.

    Well, part of that was my mistake, part of it theirs.
    The website reads 8 ohm DVC wired parallel at 2 ohms, but the 8 ohm didn't come out until 2017.
    I bought mine in 2015, so my bitch about the wrong subs was my mistake.

    My Stealthbox has 4 ohm DVC that is supposed to be wired somehow at 2 ohms, but it measured 5.3 ohms.
    It was wired in series, I rewired it parallel which they say would be 1 ohm, but it reads 1.9 on an ohm meter.

    I sounds better wired in parallel, but still not what I want it to be.
    It has more umph to it, but it isn't clear.
    Certain bass guitar notes, I can hear them, but not feel them.
    Bass drum, I can hear and feel it, but it isn't tight, it is loose and muddy.

    Maybe that is what I'm missing, the very low end.

    It just doesn't sound good at all.
    Will it shake the rear view mirror?
    Sure it will.
    But does it sound clear and tight?
    Not at all.

    Best way I can describe it is like I'm standing behind a forward facing home speaker.
    Reversing the leads/polarity makes little difference.

    I'm pulling the subs today and permanently wiring it in parallel, it is kinda rigged right now.
    Hopefully my amp won't burn up.
    It is stable to a 2 ohm load, but not a 1 ohm load.

    XM signal is crap, I realize that.
    Although the Chill channel sounds better than any other for some reason.
    I've run this amp thru my iPhone, I have a few FLAC files on a usb stick, none of them sound good.

    My wife doesn't hear the problem.
    She says it has bass and sounds OK.
    But she is more than happy with the CUE in her Cadillac that I think sounds like crap..
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020 at 11:52 AM
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  10. Oct 13, 2020 at 11:54 AM
    #10
    jaflynn738

    jaflynn738 New Member

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    I'm showing my age, but 15 years ago I put stealth JL box in my F-250. I also put JL 6x9 I believe in the truck as well. I had 2 JL amps putting power to all speakers, I paid a mint for everything and to me the door speakers sounded better than my stealth box. My buddy and I did the install but I never was impressed with it. It sounded good inside and decent but it was never loud outside. We did Dynomat the whole truck, but for what I paid, it was disappointment. The flow master exhaust was almost as loud as the stereo.

    Just my two sense of stealth box.
     
    1lowlife [OP] likes this.
  11. Oct 13, 2020 at 12:46 PM
    #11
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    Ok first this is not a dig on you and maybe I misread, but it sounded like you sourced the system components?

    I just turned 50 this year and built my fair share of of systems and they always had something that was problematic leading to sound quality. I would buy what I thought was top of the line only to find out compatibility issues and or something missing...

    So that is why I asked maybe the siginal going to the box isn't the right frequency as one example..

    I just don't know enough on the technical side, what I do know is the system I have from James with only 1 12" sub is the best bass hands down I've ever had including my 2 18"s way back...
     
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  12. Oct 13, 2020 at 1:17 PM
    #12
    1lowlife

    1lowlife [OP] Toxic prick..

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    I understand.
    You're correct, I bought the HU, amp, speakers, and subs and pieced it together.
    But I've been doing that on my vehicles for 40 years.

    I looked into local shops when I bought the truck to have them install an entire system.
    But everyone of them in the DFW area that I visited where full of bullsh!t salesman and best buy level installers.
    One of them tried to sell me a Stealthbox SB-T-TUNDC/8W7 that , come to find out, doesn't even fit in a 2014 DC.

    Never have I had such a disappointing sub enclosure.
    I made a box out of 2X10 pine boards in my 1982 Camaro (in 1982) that had a better bass response.

    I've been adjusting gains, crossovers, EQ, and TA for 5 years.
    I tried either using the HU or the amp crossovers, I know not to use both, but nothing.
    Nothing clears this Stealthbox to an acceptable result.
    I'm not some stuck up audiophile, I'm just an average ham and egger that wants a decent sound system.

    But I do appreciate your input, no sarcasm intended.
     
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  13. Oct 13, 2020 at 1:19 PM
    #13
    sensei

    sensei master and teacher of nothing

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    trd boosted, trd bbk, fox stage 4, corsa, amp, jl/kenwood
    i am, here's my self installed jrt setup:

    kenwood dnx996xr headunit
    1 JL audio 12w1 sub
    2 JL audio c1 650 components
    1 JL audio rd 900/5 amp with sub knob
    2 oem sail panels
    sealed sub enclosure
    amp rack
    soundshield deadener doors and backpanel

    i'm totally happy and as a bit of an audiophile, am particular about my audio. single 12" because for my early gen2 cm, i didn't want to block the storage behind the right rear seat. didn't care for a ported box, don't really need it loud but i wanted the hard thump of sealed enclosure and i listen to rap, rock, pop...not so much country. my jl amp went bad and is in process of manu warranty so using an older alpine 5 channel amp with less watts. doesn't sound as good so can't wait for my jl amp back. interesting the high watt jl amp didn't help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020 at 1:27 PM
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  14. Oct 13, 2020 at 1:20 PM
    #14
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    Agree on the installed pro systems that's why I always did my own, but along came the internet and the Tundra forum and there is a guy that specs them out specific to our trucks ships them to us with every thing you need and I mean everything. And to top it off probably for less than I could of ordered pulling it together.

    I'm not saying start over but you may want to look at what they are installing and see if you missing something?
     
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  15. Oct 13, 2020 at 1:43 PM
    #15
    sensei

    sensei master and teacher of nothing

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    trd boosted, trd bbk, fox stage 4, corsa, amp, jl/kenwood
    im a fan and customer of www.tech12volts.com and yes he's super busy but so worth it. like you said, some specialty on tundras, provides everything from the audio components to wires, screws and barrel connectors. my brother owned his own 12 volt business for 15yrs and helped me install. had nothing but good things to say about the kit, craftmanship on the enclosure and was totally surprised of how much i didn't pay. he was expecting my package to be much more.
     
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  16. Oct 13, 2020 at 2:00 PM
    #16
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    My system from James would of be 2k for parts and another 1k to install and then add sales tax! The install was so easy keeping the OEM HU I never had to get to the dash it was all under the passenger seat, could of done it in a day easy, my only regret is not painting the MDF mounts for the door speakers...
     
  17. Oct 13, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    #17
    1lowlife

    1lowlife [OP] Toxic prick..

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    I wish I had found www.tech12volts.com in early 2015.
    I would have bought everything from him and installed it myself.

    There are several threads on Tundra audio of members starting out on audio where I've stated, "If I was starting from scratch, I use one of tech12volts systems".

    Maybe I should start from scratch, but I'd hate to give up my Focal PS165FX door speakers.
    I already have a decent HU, RCAs already run to the amp, amp power line run, could probably use the Focals.
    I don't even run my dash speakers, the Focals sound fine without them.
    I'm actually overpowering the Focals running 100w RMS thru them while they are rated at 70 RMS.

    So maybe there is quite a bit of logic in @Tchase statement of buying a system made to work together..

    I don't need a lot of volume and loudness.
    I just what a decent sound at normal listening levels.
    I already have tinnitus so my headbanging, too loud at an intersection days are long gone.

    Perhaps I'll shoot James another email and see about an amp and sub setup.
    Maybe a couple 10s, maybe one 12..
    I could easily sell this stealthbox to someone running more that 500 watts RMS.
    That would probably help reach it's potential.
    I'm sure I could sell the Alpine as well.

    Now this thread I've started has me rethinking everything...:eek2:
     
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  18. Oct 13, 2020 at 3:28 PM
    #18
    jalam321

    jalam321 New Member

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    Ok, now that you explained more, I understand what you mean. Have you double checked the wiring to the subs? Maybe it's out of phase? (Sorry if you already have done it, I'm not trying to insult you or your abilities) :) Good choice in the Focal. I have the Focal polyglass

    I had a custom box built for my two 10TW3D4 when I first got them. I was not happy with the sound either. It seem to have no low end and just fall off. So I had another box built by someone else and it sounds so much better...gets low, sounds tight and full. But to be honest...If I was being picky...it still lacks tiny bit low end on certain songs but I'm ok with it. I understand this is a "flat" sub designed to fit in tight spaces so there may not be as much excursion as a traditional sub. I've been messing with car audio for over 20 years(showing my age lol) and I have put in many sound systems and brands in my cars over the years. I have noticed that in my trucks the system doesn't quite sound as good as the ones I had in my 4 door sedans or SUV. One of the best sounding subs/system I had was two old school 10W3 with a JL500/1 in the trunk of my Lexus. I wish I could replicate it in my Tundra. I have always like JL products, I was disappointed in the 10TW3 at first but now I'm happy with them after the new custom box.

    So maybe you issue could be the box also?? But I also would think that JL did R&D on their stealth box to have the best output/sound.
     
    1lowlife [OP] likes this.
  19. Oct 13, 2020 at 4:39 PM
    #19
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    You could probably keep your HU and door speakers and work with James on his recommendation. And the upside to the internet you could off load your other components (offer up).

    And I’m 100% with you I don’t need to be the loudest just good tunes and nice bass when appropriate. I herd how bad the stock was and said to myself I’m sure it’s fine... meh with hearing loss over the years windows down the stock is ridiculous!

    good luck let us know where you end up.
     
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  20. Oct 13, 2020 at 5:05 PM
    #20
    aparker813

    aparker813 New Member

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    Let me first say I have nothing against Tech12Volts and have and continue to recommend him to many people (and he does some incredible custom work as well). Having said that, there is absolutely nothing magic or special about the packages he puts together for Tundras and there is definitely no reason to start over completely. I can say with about 90% confidence your lack of love for the Stealthbox isn't because it doesn't fit or match the rest of your system - its because its simply not great at producing powerful low end bass response.

    Contacting him about a new sub and box is a good idea and I'm betting he recommends a single 12" in a ported box, tuned to a pretty low frequency. Would recommend against selling your PDX-V9 unless you're really after mega power for the sub channel. That amp is a great little beast that puts out a lot of clean power and can't really be beat for the price.
     
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  21. Oct 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM
    #21
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    But it is magic you push a button all this stuff arrives at you door LOL

    but in all seriousness I’m no where near an expert just a back yard mechanic. It very well could just be the box. That said I think the speaker quality is more important than the box. FWIW my 12 is not ported and it can rattle the car next door with the right song, not to mention James recommends I think it was only 75% power (power is not the right word) when adjusting the amp.

    Im just getting old, turn key options have more appeal to me.

    Regardless I think you are right I wasn’t recommending he throw out the baby with the bath water. Calling James to bring him up to speed is where I’d start.
     
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  22. Oct 13, 2020 at 5:45 PM
    #22
    sensei

    sensei master and teacher of nothing

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    trd boosted, trd bbk, fox stage 4, corsa, amp, jl/kenwood
    def no 'magic' but tech12volts knowledge of tundra specs, recommendations based on budget and desired sound, pricing, level and dedication to customer service, no trying to upsell what you don't need, no condescending tone, sending a complete kit including screws, connectors, etc. is what makes it 'special'. you'd think you can get that from any shop but def not. good luck op.
     
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  23. Oct 13, 2020 at 6:07 PM
    #23
    aparker813

    aparker813 New Member

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    Haha there is a lot of magic in leaving all that mess to someone else and just opening a box! To be clear, I was in no way trying to call out you or anyone else - and you even said in your post right above mine that OP could probably keep his headunit and door speakers and just change the sub parts out. My post was only to try and slow down OP after he said this thread had him rethinking everything.


    No condescending tone, even for "stupid" questions is a HUGE upside for t12v, as is his reputation in general. So many small local shops are staffed by complete asses who seem to know only enough to push their own brands. Obviously not speaking to all shops, just something i've run into quite a few times in my experience, sadly.

    For someone not deep into the audio world who is willing to do their own install, I would absolutely recommend t12v over crutchfield/ABT/sonic or any other online presence. Crutchfield will answer questions to the best of their ability and thats great, but with James he's likely been through every possible issue a person could have installing gear into a tundra and will be patient while walking you through any such issue.
     
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  24. Oct 13, 2020 at 6:21 PM
    #24
    Tchase

    Tchase MostlyLurk

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    Hey no offense! I have no shame in jack of all master of none! You gave sound advice imho and you did a better job explaining than me giving him more details and we all should appreciate that.

    Now you all have to help me, you keep saying it’s not magic! My wife is going to catch on and think anyone can do this LOL
     
  25. Oct 13, 2020 at 7:43 PM
    #25
    1lowlife

    1lowlife [OP] Toxic prick..

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    Thank you all again.
    I think I'm going to start with a different sub and enclosure and go from there.

    I may go for a single 12", just need to decide if I want it ported or not.
    I don't mind an enclosure taking up the entire area under the back seat, I do have a swing case, but I'd rather not remove the jack mount if I can avoid it.
    I know any ported box for 2 10" subs takes up that entire area.

    The best system I have had was in a 1994 Chevy extended cab.
    I think I only had 2 8" Fosgate punch subs in a custom enclosure with 3 old school Fosgate Punch amps.
    I just can't remember if the box was ported or not.
    That was a couple years ago..
     
  26. Oct 13, 2020 at 9:45 PM
    #26
    Rica25

    Rica25 Got Bam? IG ......@TNDRA08

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    TRD sway bar...addictive audio sub woofer.....Volant intake.....Black Rhino Glamis wheels....Billstein adjustable shocks
    123951(1).jpg I tried two different shallow mount subs. One was kicker 10 inch and the other Rockford Fosgate. I did not like either one. So I decided to purchase the Addictive audio 10 inch sub more of competition sub. Rms 700 max wattage is 1200 watts. The difference is day and night but I have a crewmax so I have more space. 20180110_203029.jpg 20190120_095827.jpg
     
    1lowlife [OP] likes this.
  27. Oct 14, 2020 at 3:34 AM
    #27
    kxed

    kxed New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Member:
    #37314
    Messages:
    24
    Gender:
    Male
    Pittsburgh PA
    Vehicle:
    2020 VooDoo Blue Crewmax Sport
    Can it been that JL assembled one of the subs wrong? Maybe try to reverse polarity on one of the subs see if that makes a differance.
     
    1lowlife [OP] likes this.
  28. Oct 14, 2020 at 4:50 AM
    #28
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2018
    Member:
    #21513
    Messages:
    583
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax SR5
    Pillar Tape, Bullet Liner, 20% Tint, Ionic 41 Boards Kenwood amp & AudioControl LC7i Tech12volts JL Tweeters
    @1lowlife - im running this one -
    Rockford Fosgate R2S-1X12


    [​IMG]
     
    1lowlife [OP] and Rica25 like this.
  29. Oct 14, 2020 at 5:12 AM
    #29
    Justbass

    Justbass New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Member:
    #52648
    Messages:
    37
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    Male
    First Name:
    Steven
    Vehicle:
    2020 MGM Platinum
    TRD Sway bar, Lomax Tonnueau cover, Bed rug, Havoc HS2, Yakima bed extender, Stereo upgrade, misc trim and bling
    1lowlife [OP] and Rica25 like this.
  30. Oct 14, 2020 at 1:41 PM
    #30
    1lowlife

    1lowlife [OP] Toxic prick..

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Member:
    #3296
    Messages:
    1,616
    DALLAS TEXAS
    Vehicle:
    2014 MGM DC SR5
    Changed my mind.
    After jacking with the system all morning, there are times when I feel the sound is almost there.
    I flattened crossovers and EQ out and started over.
    Turned off the loudness, bass boost, set my gains with my SMD DD-1 and went from there.
    Worked with the crossovers and there are some songs that sound decent and some that don't.

    After listening to some test tones, the Stealthbox does seem to be lacking in the 40-50 Hz range.
    I feel that is what I'm missing/wanting.
    Maybe a little more power would help that.

    What I did was order another amp, a Focal FPX 5.1200 from Crutchfield.
    75 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms + 720 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091FPX5120/Focal-FPX-5-1200.html?tp=35808
    That will lower my door wattage by 25 RMS, they are a tad much anyway, and the speakers are rated for 75 watts RMS.
    Increase the sub wattage 200 watts RMS, getting closer to their 800 RMS rating.
    It won't take but a few minutes to test swap an amp, and if it doesn't help, it only costs me $10 to send it back.

    If that doesn't help, I'm going to buy a 12", probably the one in my OP, and sealed enclosure built for it.
    No sense in first trying a different sub and enclosure and being stuck with it.

    Again, that you all for the help and input..
     
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