What is this vibration if it's not a wheel balance issue?

Hello forum: I have a 2000 Tundra. About 250K miles. I have a vibration problem that I really need to get rid of. It feels just like a wheel out of balance, so first I had my old tires balanced, but it made no difference. So I bought a new set of tires, had them mounted and balanced, but it made no difference.

Observations:
-The frequency of vibration rises and falls with vehicle speed not engine speed.
-The frequency of vibration is the same as a wheel vibration problem and is not a higher multiple of wheel speed (such as 3x or 4x the wheel speed) which would indicate a u-joint wearing out.
-This vibration comes and goes on different days, but it's there most of the time. It even comes and goes depending on the truck just sitting in the parking lot for a few minutes.
-Impossible to tell which wheel or whether it's the front or back wheels.
-Doesn't seem to matter what the ambient air temperature that day is, or whether the truck is being used first thing in the morning or whether it's already been driven for hours.
-Edit 9/24/21: I forgot to mention, the vibration is felt throughout the whole truck, including the steering wheel, but I never get any vibrations at all coming through the brake pedal.

My guesses as to what the problem is:
-Is it possible one of the wheels themselves is out-of-round or has a dent? I don't remember running over a big rock or pothole in the road, but it's possible. If this is what's happening though, I would think the mechanic would have noticed a problem with one of the rims during the last two trips in there balancing the tires and then again when changing the tires.

-Is it possible this is due to a wheel bearing that is failing?

-My brakes are somewhat warped, giving me a fairly strong vibration during braking. Is it possible a brake pad is dragging slightly all the time, and so the warpage is causing the vibration all the time?

Edit 11/2/21: This vibration turned out to be warped brake rotors and worn tie rod ends. I swapped in the larger 13WL (Raybestos brand) calipers, EBC Yellowstuff brake pads, and StopTech steel braided brake lines. Braking power is improved, and the vibrations are completely gone, even though I haven't replaced my tie rod ends yet.

 

A warped rotor can cause vibration without even touching the brakes. I had this issue on my 2013.

 

My similar issue was a leak inside the master cylinder letting the brakes drag.

jack the front wheels up see if they roll freely, then drive around for a few miles being heavier on the brakes than normal to get em up to temp, then jack the front up and see if they still roll freely.

My fix gave me a hammer, so every similar issue looks like a nail.

while its jacked up, give it the wiggle test.

 

You failed to mention anywhere I can see two of the most important factors I can think of: Whether or not your truck is lifted at all, and whether its 2WD or 4WD.

Vibrations are an oft-found side effect of angle changes from lifting 1, 2 or more inches and present in roughly the way you're describing. They can also be a symptom of driveline stuff related to lube, joint and bearing failure. (Actually wheel bearing failure also, but not thinking that's what it is in this case necessarily)

Tell us more about your truck.

 

I had this problem on my 4runner, and it was the front rotors. Rust accumulation inside caused them to become significantly out of balance, and cause vibration without touching the pedal.

I had this problem on my Tundra, and it turned out to be the front wheel hub bearing.

 

If you are certain of the frequency then you can rule out the carrier bearing support. Mine vibrates a little and it feels similar to an unbalanced rear tire.

 

You can have someone drive your truck at the speed the vibration is greatest while you follow looking at wheels to determine if one is bent and you can also remove wheels and inspect brake rotors to determine is warped. The wear should be uniform the full circumference of rotor, if warped there will be spots that show unusual wear where it rubs. The other idea you had of bearing failure is very good but involves more work but you gotta do the elimination process.

 

Thank you, you're right I should have given these details before: My truck is 4WD, not lifted. All stock suspension components, wheels, and tires.

Another detail: the vibration I feel is felt through the steering wheel, as well as throughout the whole truck, I can see the hood vibrating even when it's really bad, but I never feel any vibrations at all coming through the brake pedal.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the carrier bearing support? Is that with the tranny/driveshaft/u-joints or with the wheel/axle/hub?

 

Check alignment, then motor mounts.

 

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cor...ng-for-1st-gen-tundra-exact-toyota-oem.45266/

 

Stick to the virtually free and easy stuff first. If you don't know when or if your drivetrain was ever last greased, since this is such a common source of thunks and vibrations, follow these directions. Oh ... and here's why. If that fails and you're in the rust belt, check the caliper situation above and of course the motor mounts. Alignment I'm not buying into being the issue, but carrier bearing, sure, could be.

I suspect you're going to find this is at the wheels or in the driveline. If you're 100% positive the wheels are totally balanced, like it was done recently, and you're not hearing or feeling things which could indicate a bad wheel bearing, and there's no clear tire damage, no loose mounts, everything in the drive line is greased, then ... you got me.

 

Um, how on Earth could this issue be from wheel alignment if the truck doesn't even pull left or right, and how could it be motor mounts, since vibration frequency changes with vehicle speed and not engine RPM?

 

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
Sherlock Holmes

 

Well I haven't eliminated the possibility that the windshield wiper fluid is low, or that the seatbelt tensioner is misaligned either. I'm certainly not going to bring my truck down to the alignment shop and pay them $80 just to lighten my wallet. Not when it's more likely it's the wheel bearing, or warped rotors.

 

Have you balanced your chi? Or been haunted by ghosts? Too much coffee?

 

https://youtu.be/IDFN-GKre0Q

 

Definetly inspect your carrier bearing for slop and inspect the rubber bushing. I was getting a vibration most noticeable around 40-55 mph turned out was the carrier bearing. Good luck!

 

Does the vibration occur at most speeds or just a range. Wheel balance issues usually show up at a certain speed. As mentioned already, grease everything that has a grease fitting and see what happens. If you have the time and patients do one grease fitting at a time and see what happens.
One thing that happened to me a long time ago was I had water in my tires cause I forgot to bleed my garage air tank for about a year and my tires were getting water injected with the air, this caused an imbalance that was hard to find, hint, I heard the water sloshing when I pulled a tire.
About U-Joints they typically cause more vibration when you let off the gas or give the vehicle gas. The center carrier bearing is a possibility. Honestly I have not looked a Tundra to see what type of carrier bearing they use or even if they use one. But I had them fail on other cars (BMWs) and it definitely causes vibration at most speeds.
If I was in your shoes I would drive the car and when the vibration occurs put the car in neutral and see if the vibration changes (this would normally mean the issue was in the driveline not the brakes or tires). Then hit the brakes lightly and see if it changes (this would indicate a rotor/brake issue), then down shift a gear and punch it and see if the vibration changes noticeably (maybe a u-joint). Find a crappy road and drive down it and see what happens, (possible suspension issues). Definitely check for bent rims, as mentioned its easier if someone follows you and observes the tires. But a decent tire shop should see that on the balance machine if the tech is paying attention.
A worn wheel bearing will generally squeal or make noise when you turn a corner, or do figure eights in a parking lot. cause it loads up one wheel more than the other, in my experience a wheel bearing needs to be really bad to cause vibrations.
Keep notes on what's happening. Don't forget it could be a combination of worn components conspiring against you, that why greasing the suspension is important, it will settle it down for a bit.

 

Have you tried a different shop for balancing? I have had similar issues on the past, and now own a tire machine and balancer together with a good buddy. No more out-of-balance nightmares.

Toyota truck wheels are a bit harder than most to mount / center accurately and repeatably on balancer cones, but a little bit of care proves it’s not rocket surgery either.

 

When you ask for help and people offer it, it's good form to say thank you -- even if the help offered is not what you specifically need.

#teachable moment

 

Yep, sounds like it's time for the OP to start verifying some things.

 

There's no such thing as TOO MUCH COFFEE. I don't know how people wake up without a dark roast iv drip.

 

It’s not a wheel bearing. First I’d guess TRE’s, then Ball Joints, then Rack. Only if you ruled out tire balance. I’d still demand a road force balance before tearing it apart.

At 245k my entire front end was worn out, and I mean everything. 4K in dealer parts and I replaced everything myself.

 

If it's a consistent, long-lasting vibration that doesn't rise/fall or disappear with speed, nor change frequency, the only thing that makes sense is it's in the driveline, or something rubbing. The fact it mysteriously comes and goes is curious though.

 

Hopefully the OP is pokin' his noggin' to verify some things and rule some things out and reports back. One poster had a good idea to check and see if it did it in both drive and neutral.

 

I’d be checking tie rods, control arm bushings, and steering rack bushings. Verify front axles nuts are tight and boots aren’t torn/dry joints.

 

I went under there and wiggled that support/carrier bearing, and didn't feel anything that made me think a mechanical tolerance has opened up.... The driveshaft does move around maybe a 1/4-inch up/down, when I grab it and pull/push, because I can feel it's suspended in a rubber bushing, but I don't feel any free play besides the slight rubbery movement.

 

Sorry if I missed this, but when was the last time the driveline was greased?

 

I did some experimenting based off of the great information from this thread. I lifted each 4 wheels one by one, and wiggled them. I'm not feeling signs of wheel bearing issues on any wheels, however I think my tie rod ends are worn because I can feel significant free play when I rock the wheel in my hands, with my hands in the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock positions. This correlates to a feeling of wandering on the freeway, of not tracking perfectly straight, especially while the wheels follow crowns and ruts in the road.

Some improvement: Now I did go under there and grease all 8 zerk fittings on the driveshaft/u-joints, and you know what? I think the vibrations got a little better after the greasing. I need to drive around some more to be sure, but I think I made the vibration go down quite a bit after the grease job. The carrier bearing was inspected, and it doesn't feel worn to me, as there is no mechanical gap or space to clunk the bearing up and down, however I can tell it's mounted in rubber, and the rubber feels fairly soft as I can wiggle the driveshaft up and down a total of about 1/4-inch. I think the rubber in the bushing has softened up over the years, but it doesn't feel worn-out either.

So between replacing the tires and greasing the powertrain, the vibration has improved a lot but isn't gone completely either. I really think this thing is slightly dragging a brake, which caused heat buildup, which warped the rotor. I think the rest of the vibration will be fixed if I replace the rotors, because I think most of this problem was always being caused by a dragging brake pad and a warped front rotor. I will report back when I replace the rotors and pads. Thanks for the help, forum! This is a really good, active forum.