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Vibration Issues.. driving me CRAZY

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by Astro1965, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. Mar 22, 2020 at 3:40 AM
    #1
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    Hey all!

    so I have a 2003 AC 2WD with 311k miles. I am having vibration issues around 48-60mph and it comes and goes.

    Here is what’s been done to it recently since I’ve acquired it (pertaining to suspension and wheels):

    2.5” lifting spacers all around (pre-installed)
    new OEM Toyota LBJ’s
    Freedom Off-Road UCA’s (UBJ included)
    Inner/outer tie rods
    Stabilizer links
    Brakes/rotors
    Bilstein 5100’s (adjustable but set to factory height with lift spacers above top hat, aka strut mount)

    driveshaft was recent balanced, all 3 u-joints replaced, and center support bearing replaced.

    the tires are Mickey Thompson Baja’s LT285/70r17 on Method NV 17” wheels with 1.25” hub centric spacers.

    The gap between the wheel hub and spacer hub is minimal with no movement (106.1mm main hub to 108mm wheel hub) and there is a center portion through the aftermarket wheels that provides a cushion so there is no play in the wheels mounted onto a factory hub.

    the vehicle has been aligned, notating that the caster was a little out due to wheel spacers, the wheels have been balanced and also road forced balanced.
    I’m still getting this vibration and it is driving me nuts.

    symptoms:
    -Vibration at 48-60mph sometimes below
    -Sort of a contact, not grinding, but maybe friction in the gas pedal when up to speed
    -occasional humming but not very frequent at all

    ive kept the tires with a load category E (max 80psi) around 40psi. 50+ is too much, I’ve tried, and 35 is too low.

    now I know with having all-terrain tires on a well-broken in Tundra will produce some road vibration. But these symptoms made me believe that it was simply unbalanced, not aligned or possibly bad wheel bearings. I’m not getting crazy noises though.

    Any thoughts on this? With this many miles, symptoms, etc.
     
  2. Mar 22, 2020 at 6:06 AM
    #2
    TX-TRD1stGEN

    TX-TRD1stGEN ...

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    Where did you get your alignment done? If you have aftermarket uca the caster should be perfect (2.5).

    Having a bad alignment can cause these issues.

    Did they give you any print out you could share?
     
  3. Mar 22, 2020 at 6:11 AM
    #3
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    I am going back to them today. I’ll have them check alignment as well as doing an inspection.
    They performed both standard balance and road force, although Mickey Thompson told me that they don’t recommend road force balancing because it could throw off the balance of the tire due to the pressure applied to the tire.

    I remember seeing everything in the green the previous time except the caster being out. I’ll be posting more hopefully after I get in the shop today.
     
  4. Mar 22, 2020 at 6:25 AM
    #4
    Hooptytrix

    Hooptytrix Squeaky Chicken

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    I have to agree with tex, alignment and wheel balance is what it sounds like. Sounds like you are keeping this truck for a while
     
  5. Mar 22, 2020 at 6:33 AM
    #5
    TX-TRD1stGEN

    TX-TRD1stGEN ...

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    The caster is going to show green above 1 but you should tell them you want it above 2 if possible (both sides the same).
     
  6. Mar 22, 2020 at 6:46 AM
    #6
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    It’s crazy. I’ve already had two different balances in the past two months with this setup. And an alignment.

    the road force balance showed a 3/4lb off but was corrected by the tech.

    A lot of them, including others I’ve called in the area, have each stated that the vibration is caused by the tires and how knobby the tires are. They said it causes an unbalanced feeling and they hate selling all-terrain tires because of customer complaints. But I mean, these tires are highly rated..

    Mickey Thompson Baja ATZP3 285/70r17
     
  7. Mar 22, 2020 at 8:27 AM
    #7
    Skyride56

    Skyride56 New Member

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    Leveled w/ Bilsteins 5100, 285 70R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers, 17x9 +01 Fuel Vapor wheels
    Could it be the infamous rumble strip vibration that resonates from the torque converter? I have a ‘05 DC that has a slight “shudder” when cold at speeds between 25-45. I feel it resonating between the gas pedal and steering wheel. I took it to a reputable transmission shop who replaced the fluid and added a anti-shudder additive but i still feel the shudder. I recently had a rear wheel bearing replaced so not sure if my shudder is associated or was masked by the failing wheel bearing. Feels like I’m playing “whack-a-vibration”....
     
  8. Mar 22, 2020 at 9:03 AM
    #8
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    2” lifted, Method NV 33” ATV MT Baja

    Very unique aspect I have yet to try
    I just keep thinking it’s wheel/tire issue due to the vibration it’s giving off. It seems to bounce slightly but not violently
     
  9. Mar 24, 2020 at 6:51 PM
    #9
    PCJ

    PCJ New Member

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    I think it's a combination of your tires and the wheel spacers. I'm not a believer in wheel spacers. Are you able to remove them temporarily and see what your vibration does or borrow a different tire/rim and see what happens.
     
  10. Mar 24, 2020 at 6:58 PM
    #10
    imDementeD

    imDementeD New Member

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    I had same issue around same speeds and it was my tire balance. I took it back to the tire kingdom that balanced and they checked and they were way off!! But came in like, idk who balanced these but they did a terrible job...i was like yea that was this place haha. They fixed them and didn't charge so I was good to go!
     
    FrenchToasty likes this.
  11. Mar 24, 2020 at 7:10 PM
    #11
    texasrho83

    texasrho83 Teacher in a Tundra

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    I've done a little..
    Tires have good wear? Cupping, irregular wear can do this...
     
  12. Mar 24, 2020 at 7:42 PM
    #12
    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    I had a pretty noticeable vibration as well. The dealer had just done the 15k service and rotated the tires so I took it back in to them for that issue and it was a balancing issue.....not sure if one or all were out of balance but it’s better now. KO2 tires
     
    imDementeD likes this.
  13. Mar 24, 2020 at 8:10 PM
    #13
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    UPDATE:

    So I had a custom shop that specializes in lifted trucks do both a standard balance and road force balance stating that they were off slightly. Drove it home today. STILL the same bouncy-shutter feeling I’m getting from the wheels. It’s definitely the wheels.
    As to the spacers, I am going to remove them and see how it rides next to see how it does. These are 1.25” hub centric spacers. The only problem I foresee is the fact the main hub bore is 106.1mm and the aftermarket wheel is 108mm.
     
  14. Mar 24, 2020 at 8:30 PM
    #14
    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    If your wheel centers aren’t the same diameter or you don’t have a hub centric ring that will center them then you won’t ever get them exactly centered to where they are balanced.
     
  15. Mar 24, 2020 at 9:29 PM
    #15
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    right. So with that sizing, what size hub centric rings would I need?
     
  16. Mar 24, 2020 at 9:34 PM
    #16
    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    well if they exist and based on the measurements you provided then you would need a hub centric ring that is 106.1 mm internal diameter and 1.9 mm thick or have a 108mm external diameter to exactly center you wheel on the hub.
     
    imDementeD likes this.
  17. Mar 24, 2020 at 10:01 PM
    #17
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    So when installing these, would you place the matching bore sizes against one another or flip it? If they are the same size, they wouldn’t fit around each other.

    so what I’m saying is, 106.1 main bore to 106.1 hub centric ring, then 108 hub centric ring to 108 wheel hub bore. Or is it flipped?
     
  18. Mar 24, 2020 at 10:42 PM
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    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    based on the measurements you provided this (or something like this)is likely what you would need if you are going to use your existing wheels.

    1B3D0D33-CF04-45C9-B03F-AE8DC3E981A0.jpg
     
    imDementeD likes this.
  19. Mar 25, 2020 at 8:12 AM
    #19
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    Awesome link!
    So I just got off the phone with Method who manufacturers my wheels. They knew right away why I was having my vibration issue and he asked if I had ET lug nuts. I replied that I had spline luv nuts and he said I needed the ET spline nuts because with Toyota’s, they have smaller length in the thread so when the wheel is being mounted right now, I’m not getting all the thread when I “tighten” the lug nuts.

    If your wheel studs are too short, longer studs are always a solution. But, an easier option for wheels with conical seats would be to use ET Style lug nuts. These lug nuts have the same 60° conical seat plus a small 0.300" long shank that will fit into most aftermarket wheels. This equates to about 6 additional full turns of thread engagement, which will usually allow for safe installation of the wheels.

    check this link for more info on these:
    https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4632/~/what-is-an-et-style-lug-nut%3F

    He also stated that the center cap in these wheels prevents a hub centric ring from being used but the ET lugs will center the wheel so it doesn’t shift during revolutions.
    I just ordered the 6x12.5 spline ET’s. I’ll post an update when I install them.
     
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  20. Mar 25, 2020 at 8:24 AM
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    FrenchToasty

    FrenchToasty Desert rat

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    Some people even have wheels fall off when they don’t have the proper ET nuts, due to the same thing, not enough threads to torque down properly. A member in my 4runner group almost had a nasty accident when their wheel came off. They took it back to discount tire, and they knew right away the proper lugs weren’t on(yet they let them drive away the first time) either way discount tire paid for new rear breaks, rotors, a new axel, new studs and a new rim.
     
  21. Mar 25, 2020 at 8:55 AM
    #21
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    Yikes! At least they paid for their own mistake.
     
  22. Mar 25, 2020 at 12:26 PM
    #22
    Cartour2020

    Cartour2020 New Member

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    I had the exact same vibration issues for the longest time on my 06 DC 4x4, replaced: upper and lower BJ's, inner and outter tie rods, new Bilsteins all around, install poly bushing on rack and pinion, replaced center bearing support, etc. etc. alignment(twice in a month) with hunter equipment, at this point vibrations ALMOST stopped, but it was still there, had the transmission checked for vibrations, checked the engine's and tranny's mounts, nothing. I was so frustrated that I lived with it for almost a year and my BF's AT tires were shot, totally cupped and useless. It was that day when I decided I'd find out what the problem was, lifted the truck and went to work under it inspecting everything I could, nothing!!! my neighbor works for Toyota Corp, I found that day as he came over to say hello, he said "I've seen you under your truck for a couple of days now, what's going on?" I explained to him what the deal was, he said he would talk to and Toyota engineer friend of his in Tx. next day he came back and said, the engineer says to check control arms bushings and the arms themselves for cracks possible bents, I checked but couldn't really tell if that was the problem, so I decided to drop both lower CA's, they did look good to the eye until I actually checked for any play, they were shot!! i replaced them all within two days, went for a test drive on both side streets and freeway, and I was in shock; the truck felt just like the day I drove it off the dealer's lot!! I had previously checked on the bushings several times, the old bushings looked good and felt tight while on the truck once they were off one could really tell they were useless, they were all twisted in the middle (rubber part) and almost apart, Anyhow, hope my "essay" helps. :)
     
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  23. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:51 PM
    #23
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    thank you for the reply!! I have it on the list of replacements to do. I’ve narrowed one of the problems down to a lug nut issue. I have to get spline ET instead of traditional spline lug nuts due to the aftermarket wheel. Going to try this and see how it works.
    thank you for the input!
     
  24. Mar 30, 2020 at 5:06 PM
    #24
    Astro1965

    Astro1965 [OP] New Member

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    Just an update on everything:

    Called Method and they asked about the lugs I had installed. They said I needed the spline ET’s (extra thread) lugs instead of standard splines due to the cylindrical groove of them centering the aftermarket wheel onto the hub. After installing these....

    ...I STILL have a wheel hop problem. It has to be an out of round tire at this point. I’m having a shop cut the strut tower slightly to allow no metal contact between the Freedom Off-Road UCA’s and the strut tower. He noticed it rubbing.

    I guess I got the bad end of the stick with these Mickey Thompson’s....
     

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