V6 longevity aka V8 hater thread

We have come a long way since Henry Ford. No one in that era would talk about 1,000,000 miles oe even 100,000. Fast forward to the 60’s and 100,000 miles was achievable but the maintenance requirements were steep. Tires at 30,000, oil at 2-3,000, clutches, brakes, carburetors, bearings, gear oil, etc. All resulted in turnover. Emission controls starting in the 70’s drove innovation and compromised reliability as well as drove up prices. Today’s cars and trucks have reached levels of reliability and longevity I never even considered when I started driving in the 60’s. Toyota as well as a lot of Japanese manufacturers of many different products adopted a management and product philosophy known as total quality management, whose roots were in Western Electric (part the original Bell System of ATT), exported to Japan post WWII, and only adopted and not very well but the US auto industry in the 80s and 90s.

Product improvement over time is part of the process, but the focus is always customer satisfaction. Read about it and the next time you speak with a service manager, ask him if he or she knows what it is.

 

I've had a blow up or two here with the gen2 crowd. Sorry again. But oddly enough this was part of my consideration as well. Only I went the other way. I went through this with the 80 series. My '92 LC was a beast and I irrationally loved that thing. It was slow, rough and got 13 MPG regardless if I was in a mud pit or the freeway on a 75 degree sunny day. I was livid when the straight 6 and solid axels went away. Thought the 100 meant the death of Toyota quality (even though I went through 3 manifolds). That they were cheaping out, building a mall crawler and I'd never buy one.

Until I actually did. Bought a 03 LC used (crazy good deal on it in 2008). It got COVID in 2020 w. 320K on it and the frame was just too rusty to justify repair. It was beautiful. The ride, the quality, capability. It was an absolute beast. Only more comfortable and safer for my family and tech that made it relevant for a long time and the 12 years to follow.

I think the reaction here is the same I went through in '98. I had theories of why the 100 would be shit but was completely wrong. Am I giving Toyota to much faith? Maybe. But I've seen this reaction a few times already (even myself) and man the 22 is nice to drive.

 

I feel you can still get an overbuilt Toyota that will last a very long time. Unfortunately you have to live in other parts of the world besides North America. Toyota sales would tank in Australia if they didn't continue to live up to there reputation there.

 

Very very well said. I want to add more, but you nailed it so well. I love technology and the next shiny new thing as much as the next person, but something to be said (and very satisfyingly I might add) for quality, reliability, and longevity.

 

They probably realized:

A. Only a handful of people actually use their trucks for truck stuff regularly.

B. like 12 people in all of the US keep their cars for 20+ years.

The rest of the people change cars as their needs change. Im not gunna drive a full size crew cab truck around if I no longer have kids in the house or tow a trailer, so if my current truck makes it 20 years ill be impressed. It has nothing to do with whether the truck makes it or not.

 

@wedemmoez
What do you think?
Whats your opinion on warming up the truck in the morning and idling a bit to cool down the turbos?

 

You are correct about the new Turbo's not needing to idle down like in the past. Pretty sure the pump will continue to run after being shut off if the temp is too high.

The engine is equipped with two parallel turbochargers (one by each side) with electronically controlled wastegate valves. Each turbocharger sends compressed air through its own air-to-water intercooler integrated inside a polymer intake air surge tank mounted on top of the engine. Intercoolers and turbochargers use a separate cooling system with an additional radiator and electric pump.

 

I won't believe it unless Car nut personally knocks on my door and explains it to me.

 

There is only one question here. How can anyone hate a V8?

 

I actually miss my v8 hemi a lot... Even though it was so problematic and died at 120k miles.

I could feel that v8 accelerating and knew exactly what kind of response I'll get when pressing the gas pedal. Unfortunately I can't say the same about my Tundra, even after the TSB

 

Lol y'all sound like the WRX/sti JUST came out, and everyone gonna hafta run a turbo timer to cool down turbo after ignition is off.

Lol do realize Toyota runs water/coolant through the intercooler for these turbos.

This feels like it's 2001 and WRX just came out hahaha

 

I'm just waiting for someone to bring up the Tundras that have spun bearings......

 

When folks start talking about old Toyota straight six and solid axels I could care less about a v8.


if Toyota is moving away from simple QDR that I appreciate so much at least they could also move away from this city truck only deal and build some ton trucks.

 

So last night I was looking at the local Chevy dealer as I like trucks and window shop a lot. Many of the ‘23 Silverados have a 4-cyl. Turbo! What do you all think of that? I’m loving my TTV6. It’s way ahead of my 5.3 Chevy I traded in.

 

warm up for sure, no need to idle to cool down. @Eurodriver has it right.

 

The GM 2.7L is what Toyota should have came with. Much simpler, lighter, packaging is better. No doubt repair will be easier. Almost as much torque (430 ft-lbs). Looks to be extremely durable. Tim with Pickup Truck Plus just posted a video about it and interviewed their Engineer. That thing looks extremely durable and haven't heard of any issues at all. Biggest thing: it's simple yet highly advanced. The warm-up tech is neat in that too, my 2022 seems to take forever to heat up the cab, then when it's warm, the blower doesn't work hardly at all. If I was Toyota, I'd start over completely if they are serious about the full-size truck market. Definitely have lost their way.

 

I believe that Toyota is pretty much on the right track. I don't need the latest and greatest every couple of years and I generally keep my vehicles for 10 years or more. But neither do I need to own a vehicle that is built out of a solid steel billet and made to last 500k miles and 20 or 30 years, as some of the older ones seem to go. Lighter weight, better, if not best in class efficiency, better safety features... these things are more important to me than a truck potentially going 500k miles which will be beyond my lifetime. And these features and requirements and the tech capabilities are constantly evolving. I fully expect my Tundra to last as long as I want to keep it and drive it... which might be ~10-15 years.

 

We will have to see what they start putting in the new 4R/Tacoma, but I bet it will be something along these lines of a 2.7. The GM 2.7 has been quietly one of the best things they have done (along with the 3.0) in years. The only thing is the 2.7 can’t put up the towing numbers that Ford and Toyota can with the 3.5. I personally think the TT6 is a great power train with the 10 speed, it just has effortless power. But you’re right, it’s complex and looks like it will be very complicated to work on. We will see how they do in the years to come.

 

The GM 2.7 is only a few thousand pounds short of Ford & Toyota twin turbo's towing. I think if you are towing more than 10,000 lbs on a regular basis, the argument can be made for a 3/4 ton. Heat is a killer of turbo engines and I think GM has a trump card here when it comes to towing with small displacement engines. When you come to a stop in a Ford/Toyota 3.5 V6 after a hard pull, that engine is going to bake due to their smaller size and being boosted engines. GM has an electric water pump running full tilt even at idle to keep that engine from cooking itself after a big towing pull. I'm sure that's why Toyota has the electric pump for the Turbo's & that direct drive fan, but it won't do good at idle after a hard pull, since it has a mechanical water pump for the engine. Maybe they can take a lot of extreme heat cycles like that and be ok, but eventually that Duty Cycle will shorten your engine life if you tow often, if you don't tow often, these are probably 500K engines. That's where I think the GM 2.7 will outlive the others, it's never going to be in an extreme event like that, even towing every day of its life and that's why when they cut the engine open after a full life dyno simulation of an extreme situation, it looks brand new. I don't think the Ford & Toyota engines would, strictly from an engineering/design standpoint and looking at the facts. If I had to tow 8,000 lbs almost every day, the GM 2.7 would no doubt outlast the V6 engines.

 

The 2.7 is a bonafide overachiever. It was made to be a legitimate V6 replacement, which included the bigger V6s GM had, and it is even a good sub for their lower level V8s they previously offered. When the 2.7 is in their smaller Cadillac sedans, it's a ripper.

It looks like Toyota will be deploying the 2.4T into the 4R and the coma. The 2.4T is an unimpressive compliance engine. It's been replacing the 2GR in other Toyota/Lexus vehicles and trades torque for horsepower, the net result is not very impressive. Somewhat slower WOT, but somewhat more torquey at lower revs. Eh. MPG no better (in real world testing) either.

We'll see what Toyota does, but if it's a variation of the 2.4T, prepare to be disappointed.
My opinion, Toyota should have a single turbo 3.0T option for the 4R and coma. That'd be compelling, especially with how expensive these relics have become....

 

You should watch PickupTruckPlus - the recent video with the GM Engineer on the 2.7. It's super interesting. They show the torque curve...it was meant to replace big block V8 torque. He compared the curve to a 8.1 V8 from early 2000's. They are slowly going to push it as a premium towing engine after it's been proven to be indestructible, it's well on its way to getting that reputation.

 

What is the torque of the 2.7 including the torque peak rpm?

sad day when we say a gm 2.7 will out last a Toyota engine , I’ll have to see that to believe it, time will tell

 

As with any other modern turbo engine, you can get a feel of old mechanical throttle with linear response by a mean of a simple engine software tune. By default it is tuned for EPA numbers, not performance. You don't need the maximum possible performance out of engine, just remapping enough for more natural feel.

 

430 @ 3000 I believe. I want to see Toyota do a video like the GM Engineer did. Then show a torture tested engine to make us real believers like GM did for TFL Truck. Until they do, I’m going to say that the GM engine will outlast our Toyota twin turbo V6’s.

 

Yeah awhile back I heard a Silverado Crew Cab start up with the tinniest econo-box sound ever and was surprised to read up later and find out they were putting 4-bangers in them. One nice perk is probably the cheap oil changes with half as much oil needed. In there to help with CAFE standards I guess but then I hear Chevy has to discount them very heavily to get people into a 4 banger Crew Cab half ton. Probably a great deal if it suits your needs.

These aren't just fleet package base reg cab work trucks, I'm seeing these in non base Trim 4x4 Crew Cabs. They must see growth potential for this motor with recreational owners who never tow heavy and just do Home Depot runs and takes the family on road trips.

 

I never thought a 4 cylinder would take off either. That’s why I bought the Tundra. Recently some of my coworkers have gotten the 2.7L at a big discount and rave about it. Then GM is now putting it in the Colorado and doing in depth engineering explanations. Won’t be long before a whole lot of people start becoming believers in it. When you dig in, not hard to see it has many superior attributes to our TT V6. I love the engine and the torque, fuel economy could be better. My coworkers can get mid 20’s easy with the 2.7. Real world blowing me away. Then I see the other day I have to change spark plugs at 40K on the Tundra. Quite a disappointment.

 

Man, if it weren't for the fact that GM is only making one bed/cab configuration available (shortbed crew) I would have seriously considered the new Colorado. Just can't stand short box crew cab trucks, from any manufacturer.
It's why I still consider the new Tundra....lots of great configuration options

 

I’m surprised no one has really talked about how great the ford 2.7 v6 ecoboost is in this thread. Talk about a great engine with good fuel economy and power and great reliability in the f150 platform since 2015.

 

Hmm, I work for a DOT that only buys Ford fleet vehicles. We had 2.7EB king cab trucks... they kept going in the shop. Not sure if it's 2.7EB issues...
But, here's the new fleet rule: we only buy 2.5, 5.0 and 7.3 trucks now.
We really had bad luck with Ford's Ecoboost 4's and 6's, the escapes were always drinking coolant...oh and the diesel 6.7 was ridiculously troublesome... always expensive stuff like cooled EGR and dpf system. Engine and drivetrain good, emissions stuff will rape your bank