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Transmission cooler or not Thread

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014+)' started by Mad Max, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Oct 12, 2020 at 12:29 PM
    #1
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    So I did some thinking (dangerous i know) Toyota indicates transmission fluid good to 100K miles. Toyota WS has a flash point is 350F (point where ignition could occur if spark present) boiling point of 650F, transmission alarm at 300F. Assuming linear degradation of fluid over time, 100K miles = 2000 hours at 50 mph of driving. I would argue most average 30 mph or 3,300 hours of run time on transmission before fluid is changed. So each year I tow maybe 2K miles. I average 10K miles a year of driving. In summary over the life of my fluid at 50 mph I stress my fluid 400 hours out of 2000 hours lifespan. So I change my fluid at 75K miles which should negate the transmission cooler since I maintaining transmission fluid properties. If I were tow 50% of my engine hours then change fluid at 50k miles. If I were to tow 100% of time get F250 diesel or install transmission cooler.

    I could just see Toyota pushing back on a warranty claim associated with the transmission if they saw a cooler. You got contaminants in transmission when installed. Fluid lever wasn't correct, blah blah blah.

    If out of warranty then no worries, if in warranty I think there is some due diligence needing to be done.
     
  2. Oct 12, 2020 at 12:47 PM
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    CaptainGrumpus

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  3. Oct 12, 2020 at 12:54 PM
    #3
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    It boils down to Toyota coverage with no questions or you prove you didn't damage the transmission with cooler installation. Pretty sure you expenses in proving you didn't damage transmission cost more than new transmission. I been to court, my word, your word and opinion is USELESS. You have to have a certified professional. Like an OEM transmission design engineer mathematically proving what occurred, a metallurgist proving a metallurgical issue. By the way we all waived our right to a trial when we bought our cars, you have the right for arbitration now. Toyota, insurance companies always deny, they know 99% of the population don't have the drive and commitment to see it through and they have nothing to loose, at worst they pay for what they should. The 1% like me get paid. The smart one pay me quick, the dumb one pay me allot more.
     
  4. Oct 12, 2020 at 12:57 PM
    #4
    tttrdpro

    tttrdpro Machine Whisperer

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    I’m not going to criticize anyone for adding a cooler if it makes them feel better but I’m not going to worry about it. I’ll probably take a sample and send it to Blackstone just for shits and giggles when the fluid is changed. If I remember.
     
  5. Oct 12, 2020 at 1:02 PM
    #5
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    tttrdpo,

    That's what I am talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great suggestion, if in question send in a sample of transmission fluid. Why didn't i think of that? Then if an issue arises you have Toyota on the run...... You have data by an outside unbiased resource.
     
  6. Oct 12, 2020 at 1:14 PM
    #6
    Clemsonman14

    Clemsonman14 New Member

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    4.6 ran this setup for years without issue. I don’t tow much so just going to drive it and service it at the intervals recommended in the owners manual
     
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  7. Oct 12, 2020 at 1:27 PM
    #7
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    I really hope this thread ends up better than the others did.

    Here is some gasoline for the fire. I talked with a Toyota Engineer that deals with this directly, and they are having a fluid cooler added. I will ask if I can quote them verbatim.

    From what they said, and if you tow with a 2019 or newer Tundra, this is a good mod to have.
     
  8. Oct 12, 2020 at 1:48 PM
    #8
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    I agree it cannot hurt if thermostat used. Problem I see is ownership of problems outside your control due to a manufacturing issue.
     
  9. Oct 12, 2020 at 1:59 PM
    #9
    Zero One Actual

    Zero One Actual Member among Members

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    So “potentially”, anyone with a 2019 or newer would take their truck in for a recall to get a fluid cooler installed? “If” this ever where to happen of course.
     
  10. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:04 PM
    #10
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    If I get permission to use their words, it will explain everything and drop an F-bomb. Well, at least I did and I don’t even own one.
     
  11. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:08 PM
    #11
    SomeGuy4

    SomeGuy4 Liberty is a curse to the ignorant & brutal

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    I was leaning no cooler after that fella posted his Blackstone results, but your post has me thinking about it again. I just wish Toyota would offer a dealer installed, factory warrantee cooler for those of us who want to error on the side of caution. I’d pay for it as long as they didn’t rake us over the coals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020 at 6:42 PM
  12. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:12 PM
    #12
    SomeGuy4

    SomeGuy4 Liberty is a curse to the ignorant & brutal

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    You have my attention now.
     
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  13. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:16 PM
    #13
    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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    OP, most have said it takes about 2-3 hours to install the cooler. It can probably be removed in half that time. If your transmission ever starts acting up and you are worried about the warranty with the cooler, you could always remove it. Toyota would never know or question it.
     
  14. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:17 PM
    #14
    AzureNightmare

    AzureNightmare Geek in a Tundra

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    :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

    I've been so back and forth on this "issue" that my head is spinning. When Nick came out with his cooler kit I was 100% on board and pretty sour that Toyota had discontinued the coolers without any explanation. Then there was discussion with good points on both sides, and I couldn't be sure. Next a Blackstone report on the ATF made me question the necessity of the cooler and eased my mind about it to the point that I wasn't certain, but had more confidence about the stock set up.... Now @ColoradoTJ has to tease me back into toward a cooler with this stuff!:goingcrazy:

    I have to say, it's been quite the ride. I will patiently wait for any info that can be provided; even if it's unofficial.
     
  15. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    #15
    SomeGuy4

    SomeGuy4 Liberty is a curse to the ignorant & brutal

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    Like you, I have been going back and forth on the cooler. It sounds like the cooler debate is over if ColoradoTJ is right.
     
  16. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:28 PM
    #16
    Zero One Actual

    Zero One Actual Member among Members

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    Yeti or Ozark or Pelican? Dometic.
     
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  17. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:28 PM
    #17
    AzureNightmare

    AzureNightmare Geek in a Tundra

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    I imagine I'll add one either way, because I don't really see a down side to the cooler. I'm still very curious and would love any actual info that can be found. The earlier troubles up until the oil analysis was that everything was just conjecture on one side, and the vague "it's in spec" response from Toyota on the other. Real solid info would be awesome.
     
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  18. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:29 PM
    #18
    CaptainGrumpus

    CaptainGrumpus The Mailman

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    In the thread I posted, someone brought the kit to their Toyota dealer to have it installed. I wonder if that would help incase of a warranty claim.
     
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  19. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:32 PM
    #19
    AzureNightmare

    AzureNightmare Geek in a Tundra

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    Doubtful. If corporate Toyota decided they wanted to deny it, it wouldn't matter who you had install it. The fact that the dealer would install it would make me think that person wouldn't get a fight about transmission work at the dealership level, but there were plenty of others who said that their local dealerships refused to install it. Those dealerships would likely fight it before corporate ever even knew about it. Dealerships are finicky. Some are cool with mods, others are not. It's usually best to speak to the service manager and find out what type of dealership you are dealing with.
     
  20. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:42 PM
    #20
    glowblue

    glowblue Don’t even ask...

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    I echo @ColoradoTJ - hope this thread doesn’t go south. It’s a controversial topic. My approach is to use the $$$ I’d spend on a cooler kit and get the extended warranty. I don’t tow much if at all so I’m not in the same category as many others. Time will tell what Toyota does (if anything)
     
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  21. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:50 PM
    #21
    AzureNightmare

    AzureNightmare Geek in a Tundra

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    I think we are all hoping that this one will be less... rage filled. As long as we can all remember that nobody is forcing anybody to install or not install a cooler, then we should be able to be civil.

    I personally am biting my tongue on any argumentative thoughts for this topic.

    "If it neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket; what do I care?" - Thomas Jefferson (yes it is paraphrased/adapted, but close enough and true to the spirit of the quote)
     
  22. Oct 12, 2020 at 2:57 PM
    #22
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    I agree you can remove the cooler and excellent point but it will take 4-5 hours. Toyota sales 100K Tundras a year, so 200K Tundras without coolers. No way would Toyota say anything. Why would they, its business. GM,Ford been doing this for decades. Chevrolet has 12K towing capacity knowing 95% don't tow. 5% which do will be covered under warranty. Guy bought new Explorer at work, towed his 4Klb boat to Florida from Texas. I told him you will be getting a new transmission. He gets back after towing at 55mph both ways (miserable experience) and they replaced the transmission under warranty. Ok well guess it didn't have the 7500lb towing capacity he was sold on unless you going less than 5 miles.... No Toyota engineer is sharing anything, lol, what in it for him? Unemployment? He is paid to represent the company.

    Does anyone actually believe Toyota didn't due extensive testing? Review history? what did they save per car $200. Trust me, it didn't cost Toyota in parts. I worked for a supplier to an OEM. GM charged $299 for a plastic intake manifold that would hole through near the stove pipe at 100k miles and leak coolant into the intake. GM was charged $12.36 for the manifold. Oh they switched from all aluminum to save $4.69

    I paid a premium for Toyota over Ford and GM for their superior engineering. If we start seeing failures that will dictate the path forward
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  23. Oct 12, 2020 at 3:18 PM
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    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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    Max, here is some info gathered in other threads.

    Toyota stated they tested the truck with the removed cooler at Davis Dam and it performed within spec.

    Toyota replied to a now removed video that the atf was rated up to 280F.

    The atf overheat light comes on at 302F.

    The accepted reason for the change was the switch from R134A to R1234 refrigerant, which needed a bigger ac condenser.

    There was a separate cooler in front from 07-mid 10. In mid 10 to 18, it was integrated with the ac condenser.

    Cost to replace a transmission is between $4000 (my 10 replaced in 15 under warranty at 59k miles) and $7000.

    WS atf fluid specs are proprietary and toyota isn’t releasing detailed info. Theres no documentation it changed from 07 to now.

    Techs stated they were not aware of any transmission changes to make it run cooler.

    The current transmission cooler used to only be called a warmer before 19. It acts as both depending on coolant temp. It’s effectiveness is in question.

    Toyota removed mention of the cooler from the sticker of the 21s.

    Those that added a cooler said it dropped pan temps 30-50F.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  24. Oct 12, 2020 at 3:54 PM
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    Bradleybb

    Bradleybb New Member

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    I Don’t believe Toyota will do anything unless there’s a substantial
    Amount of transmission claims over the coming years , this is the way
    They do things ...wait for massive failures warranty claims , seen it all to many times
    In my career with them since 85, I put a cooler in my 19 no regrets huge decrease in temps
    Towing and non towing my peace of mind from past experience , my 05 tundra had a cooler towed with it on occasion 14 yrs never a problem
    Nor a trans fluid service , and heck my service labor rate was half the going rate ,
    End the end Toyota will take care of any problems that arise in future with or without cooler.
     
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  25. Oct 12, 2020 at 4:03 PM
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    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    Pfffttt....Yeti
     
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  26. Oct 12, 2020 at 4:17 PM
    #26
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    I am a huge proponent of the trans cooler, super cheap insurance. Cost is negligible. It pains me to give an OEM an excuse not to support their design. If I don't have any issues with my transmission for the first 5K miles I will be past the infant mortality stage. At that time, especially if I am towing in excess of 600 miles continuously I would install the transmission cooling kit advertised on this forum. If a problem occurs, I will remove before going to dealer. If I am just towing my normal 15 miles to boat ramp at speeds less than 45 mph then the cooler will not extend transmission life and I will not install. We all have 5 year /60k powertrain warrantees so even the 2018 have a couple years left. If someone plans on keeping for 10 years / 200k miles then install the cooler, I am very confident over the long haul it will increase longevity.

    If I am hauling an RV over mountains and not in Houston where the biggest hill is a curb, install the cooler, if problem arises remove before going to dealer.

    If you are unloading after the new 2022 come out, or might jump to another vehicle before powertrain warranty expires do nothing. The person gaining the real benefit of the cooler is the guy who owns it with 150K miles on it or more.
     
  27. Oct 12, 2020 at 4:35 PM
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    Coffee*8)

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    Don’t think installing a cooler is cheap. Costs about $1k.
     
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  28. Oct 12, 2020 at 4:49 PM
    #28
    hagrid

    hagrid 6Al/4V

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    Good Lord, I hope not. Need to save money for fuel.
    Fixed it!
     
  29. Oct 12, 2020 at 4:52 PM
    #29
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    In the grand scheme of things $1k isn't much, these trucks selling mid 30's to high 50's. If its the only thing to make you happy with the truck its cheap.
     
  30. Oct 12, 2020 at 5:29 PM
    #30
    ColoradoTJ

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    Finally I get a few moments to sit down and answer some Q's.

    I would doubt Toyota would recall Tundras/T4r's/Tacomas and I can assume Sequoia/Lexus equivalent do not have front mounted fluid coolers.

    From what the engineer said...worth the stretch. Most people do not use their trucks for actual work. The ones that tow 50% or more of the GTWR or have a built up heavy overland/LT trucks do have something to worry about.

    I will just quote what they said and repost.
     

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