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Tranny Pan Bolts.

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Paulismydog, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:04 AM
    #31
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    I forget the size of the bolts, but when I broke one of mine, I got a good bolt out and went and picked up some grade 10.9 bolts to replace it with, and used never seize on them. If I do ever have to drop the pan again, I won't be breaking bolts this time!

    And yes, you can swap them out one at a time without issue
     
    2mchfun[QUOTED] likes this.
  2. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:10 AM
    #32
    armyoffoo

    armyoffoo Member

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    Pan bolts are M6x1.0, 25mm under head length
     
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  3. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:11 AM
    #33
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    Filters do need to be changed, but as far as the transmission is concerned, no, it doesn't need it. If your transmission filter is getting clogged, or getting full of clutch material, you need wayyyyy more than a filter, and something is definitely wrong.

    Here is my filter after 176k? Miles, somewhere around that mileage I believe, original filter 20191213_150654-1.jpg 20191213_150658-1.jpg 20191213_150702-1.jpg

    See those tiny tiny tiny specs of clutch material? That were probably from break in? After 176k miles? Times that by 5, that's almost a million miles, so how long before the filter gets full? The filter will outlive the transmission at this rate.
     
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  4. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:19 AM
    #34
    armyoffoo

    armyoffoo Member

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    After 3 years the bolts on my truck trans pan came out with no issues, I cracked them loose and zipped them out with an electric screwdriver on lowest torque setting. But I don't live where they salt the roads or anything like that, and no off-roading...
     
  5. Dec 24, 2021 at 2:07 PM
    #35
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    Merry Christmas eve everyone!

    Going on 2 years with my Tundra and decided to put some anti seize on the pan bolts. All of the bolts came off easily. Took them all off 1 by one VERY slowly, applied anti seize then torqued to just under 6ft lbs or 65 in lb. The tools you use play a factor too.

    A long handle 1/2 inch drive will make it easy and you'll be able to go slow. Also, if you don't have an in lb wrench, get one. When it comes to these type of bolts, consistency is key. Don't listen to the backyard mechanics that say things like "hand tight and a quarter turn is enough."

    20211224_135027.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  6. Dec 24, 2021 at 2:40 PM
    #36
    coldcanuk

    coldcanuk New Member

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    Looking at the bolts holding up the trans pan; the ones that run along the longer two sides actually open at the top (threaded all the way though). Over time crud and water seeps into the top of the bolts and when you try and take them out the ends are rusted up like rusty shitty clumps. The sets of bolts holding the pan at the front and back are not threaded all the way through. I made sure I got 2 coats of RPG-342 on the tops of the bolts that are exposed to the elements over time. I think next spring I'll probably also put a dab of grease on top too. I owe this knowledge to a YouTube video below (4:01 minutes) where they had a nightmare breaking them all off in the rust belt and then paying a shop a lot for drilling and helli-coils.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysQfYMiCZHM&ab_channel=SpeedAcademy
     
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  7. Dec 24, 2021 at 2:58 PM
    #37
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    It also helps to get under the truck and rinse everything down every now and then. I put the truck on ramps, foam blast it, brush off whatever needs brushing, then rinse.
     
  8. Dec 24, 2021 at 3:59 PM
    #38
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    Not a bad idea, but unnecessary as the trans pan never needs to come off for a filter change or to have the magnets cleaned. The amount of material in/on both is negligible.

    My trans filter still had many millions of miles to go before being clogged, as can be seen at 176k miles when I split open the filter. So it's no longer a concern for me.

    But I'm all for preventive maintenance and going above and beyond. So if it makes you feel better, by all means go for it! :thumbsup:

    I just like to share my experience with other tundra owners to help them make informed decisions and prevent repairs or maintenance that isn't needed. Especially since trans pans bolts snap off so easily.

    Merry Christmas! :santa2:
     
  9. Dec 24, 2021 at 4:33 PM
    #39
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Well said! However, some, myself included may want to throw a HP valve body in there in the future. Just my .02.
    Happy Grinchmas!
     
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  10. Dec 24, 2021 at 5:07 PM
    #40
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    Well I'm at 232k on the stock valve body, take that for what it's worth, a tune can also tighten up your shift points, which is what I would do before a valve body modification.
     
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  11. Dec 24, 2021 at 5:27 PM
    #41
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    While its good to know that one experience shows that our transmissions are reliable, I can't rely solely on anectdote.

    I know that if you see large particles floating around in your fluid or get caught in the filter, changing the filter is the least of your problems. As you said it is just good practice to inspect at certain intervals anyway. I'd rather drop the pan every 60K miles and have nothing to report except for having to wipe down the magnets.

    I know this doesn't work for everyone, but redundancies are a thing for me. My next drain and fill in January will be the truck's 3rd since purchase. Call it a poor man's flush to get the fluid to 90% synthetic. I'll be dropping the pan at 60K to clean up any residual breakin material on the magnets...and to change the filter. Cheap insurance. lol

    Cheers.
     
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  12. Dec 24, 2021 at 5:47 PM
    #42
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    The lack of transmission failures or transmission problems is enough evidence for me. I changed my filter out simply out of habit from prior vehicles, after I changed it and inspected it, I realized this particular transmission doesn't require that maintenance. If yours doesn't have large particles or chunks in the filter when you remove it, I believe you can also assess your filter doesn't need to be changed either. If you choose to change it regardless of the evidence you witness, then by all my means, go ahead. It won't hurt a thing. It's just unnecessary work imo.

    Also, dropping your pan allows for more dust and contaminants to enter, than if you were to leave the pan on. Say a breeze comes along with lots of dust? That's going straight onto your transmission fluid covered valve body and transmission internals.
     
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  13. Dec 24, 2021 at 6:24 PM
    #43
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Another thing I will be doing is the high fluid capacity pan, so never sieze the bolts it is. Planning to haul and tow a good load for many miles in the not too distant future. Got to take care of the beast with these new ridiculous prices.
     
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  14. Dec 24, 2021 at 6:37 PM
    #44
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    High capacity pan is always good. Be sure to grease/anti seize the bolt completely, the grade 12.9 bolts I installed in mine, the heads are already rusted over, and I live in the south. I did anti seize the threads, so no worries there. Just a good precautionary measure going forward, should you tend to take that route!
     
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  15. Dec 24, 2021 at 7:15 PM
    #45
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    Haha, closing my garage door prevents the dust from blowing in.
     
  16. Dec 24, 2021 at 7:54 PM
    #46
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Busy with projects

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    True. Post your transmission filter opened up for more data for the forum. It will be beneficial for everyone
     
  17. Dec 25, 2021 at 12:03 AM
    #47
    Totmacher

    Totmacher New Member

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    Any reason we can't simply read trans temps from obd2 port and skip the pins and shifting and flashing dash lights when checking fluid level?
    I have a Scangage that gives trans temp.

    I have found different temps online through threads here and youtube etc. I assume there have been different transmissions in different builds like maybe 1st gen vs the 4.6L vs the 5.7L trucks.

    These are temps I noted:
    Trans A760E says 127-138F.
    Trans ___ (07-08 book) says 115-133F.
    Trans AB60F says 99-111F.

    Sticker on my door says I have the AB60F trans.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  18. Dec 25, 2021 at 12:00 PM
    #48
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    Using the Scangauge is perfectly fine. It's what I do. If you have a transmission cooler, make sure you pin your thermostat to ensure the correct level. I personally do a level check at 95 Deg F. There's a huge margin of error on this if you've done it enough.
     
  19. Dec 25, 2021 at 1:41 PM
    #49
    Totmacher

    Totmacher New Member

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    Why is pinning thermostat needed?
     
  20. Dec 25, 2021 at 2:56 PM
    #50
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    It ensures that all the fluid is circulating during idle.
     
  21. Dec 27, 2021 at 5:17 AM
    #51
    WXman

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    Can you see the contaminate in the engine oil filter? Of course not. Then why do we change those?

    I believe the best practice would be to drop the pan, clean the pan and magnets, replace the filter, then button back up and install fresh fluid. After that a drain and fill once per year. That's what I've done on other brands of trucks before.

    Having said that, the bolts snapping off thing has me worried because I do NOT want to deal with that. So I'm considering just having the dealership replace all the fluid without dropping the pan on this Toyota. Seems like a better option in this case.
     
  22. Dec 27, 2021 at 6:03 AM
    #52
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Actually, yes you can see the contaminents between the pleats of the oil filter very easily. The debris is captured on the O.D.
     
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  23. Dec 27, 2021 at 6:54 AM
    #53
    Spyker

    Spyker I’m a dude,playin a dude,disguised as another dude

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    That truck could have used some FluidFilm at the beginning of its life lolz
     
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  24. Dec 27, 2021 at 6:55 AM
    #54
    Sumo91

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    All this tells me is that you don't inspect your oil filters. My trans filter at 176k had virtually no material inside of it. Try that with an engine oil filter and get back to me. Manufacturers even say the trans fluid and filter is "lifetime" which there are obvious discrepancies on this, but they still recommend 5-10k oil AND filter changes. Your comparing apples to oranges with engines and transmissions. You want to prevent friction inside an engine, if you didn't, it would eat itself alive quickly. You don't want to prevent friction in a transmission (to a certain degree of course), if you did, it would slip, and you'd have zero power to the wheels.

    Cleaning the transmission magnets is also a waste of time imo, barely anything will be on them, but knock yourself out. I've changed many transmission filters, and split them open, this truck has the cleanest filter and magnets that I've ever seen on a vehicle. If you, or anyone else feels inclined to change the filter and clean the magnets, I beg you to post the pictures to provide us more data.
     
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  25. Dec 27, 2021 at 10:11 AM
    #55
    WXman

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    Any vehicles I've got with cartridge style filters, yes I do look at them when I change them. In a brand new engine, I'll typically see very small shavings that are almost hard to detect. After 10k miles or there isn't any debris to see. It's no different than the pictures of the trans filter earlier in this thread.

    In any case, I called my closest dealership and they all but refused to do a trans service on my truck. They said this is a "world standard" transmission, and as such they never touch them until they fail. Seems like a business decision for Toyota, and not for the customer. So, I'll either have to take it to an independent shop or do it myself.
     
  26. Dec 27, 2021 at 10:14 AM
    #56
    Sumo91

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    That picture was my trans filter after 176k miles.
     
  27. Jan 13, 2022 at 5:57 PM
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    dongziye

    dongziye New Member

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    Thanks for the info! I am about to do the same thing for my 2021 Tundra. I was wondering whether I should reduce the torque after applying anti seize. A lot of people reduce 25% torque.
     
  28. Jan 13, 2022 at 6:16 PM
    #58
    Chip_Tundra

    Chip_Tundra New Member

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    That may be a safe thing to do. I actually did set it to 62 in lb instead, and everything's still fine. No leaks or stripped bolts.
     
  29. Oct 23, 2023 at 7:00 AM
    #59
    MuzziSchwabeck

    MuzziSchwabeck New Member

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    2010 Tundra, 4.6l w/tow package, A760 Transmission, 245k miles. I just had to remove the pan to replace the S4 shift solenoid. I was able to remove all but one pan bolt without breaking by using a lot of liquid wrench and extreme patience despite the fact that about 8 of them didn't seem to want to budge. I used a 1/4 drive small breaker bar so as to not be able to apply too much pressure and a few had to tap gently with a drift and hammer.
    Once I got a bolt to move at all I soaked it more with Liquid Wrench. I noticed that all the bolts fore and aft didn't seize at all. I'm guessing that is because they are protected. The ones that were hard to remove had aluminum embedded in the threads on the tops of the bolts only. The bolt holes on the sides of the pan are not exposed but they are open on top. I plan to put a dab of marine grease on these holes to seal them from water and debris, as well as anti-seize them.
    This type of seizing with steel bolts in aluminum is classic in the marine world. It is caused by dissimilar metals. It's a little less of a problem using stainless bolts, but dissimilar metals sets up a situation where electrolysis occurs. It almost welds the metal together.
    I have some Yamaha anti- corrosion grease left over from an out board engine. It is specifically designed to help with this type of corrosion. It's almost like glue. You would never think of using a lubrication.
    Also, there is a good video on YouTube by Toyota master tech showing how to jump 2 pins on the OBD2 connector which allows you to adjust your ATF level at the correct temperature without a scan tool. It actually shows why you shouldn't use a laser thermometer. When the scan tool read 109° the thermometer read on the 81°. You will end up with trans fluid too high. If you just replace the same amount of fluid as you drain, over time you will end up low fluid levels. You never catch all of it.
    Seems to me, better to just do it right.
    My 2 cents, for what is worth.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUAuGmDGntY
     
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  30. Oct 23, 2023 at 8:55 AM
    #60
    VWTim

    VWTim Mid-Travel Crew

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    I did an S4 solenoid on my '07 this year at 170K. Being a PNW truck, all bolts came out ok and I replaced with 316SS bolts with antiseize.
     

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