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Trailering & Radio questions

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by Cartman, Aug 30, 2022.

  1. Aug 30, 2022 at 6:35 AM
    #1
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    I didn't see anything in regards to my question for the new Tundra's in the trailering forum, thus here now.
    After spec'ing out a truck in April, my dealer had basically the same truck come in, but with the iForce Max option. I didn't want or need that, but beggar's can't be choosers in todays marketplace. I got the deal done on 8/27 and now have a 8 mile new truck, my first Tundra.
    The dealership, while great to work with, had VERY little information/feedback on the truck. They said since very few are actually out there and they'd only had a few come through, their knowledge was limited. I understand that somewhat, but a dealership should know answers no matter what, IMO.
    1st question - when starting truck the radio defaults to my cell phone's Pandora app. While not a huge issue, is there a way to have the radio stay on XM instead?
    2nd question - the truck has the AVS option. In the past I've always installed AirLift bags on my trucks. I would measure wheel well height, load truck/hook up camper and use air bags to get within an inch of level, then use leveling bars for the rest of the way to level. With the AVS/rear height control I figure after loading/hooking up trailer the truck will find its level. I'm not sure if this is all that's needed or if leveling bars are still needed. Hate to start a camping trip and find out should have used bars etc. Anyone have insight to this?
     
  2. Aug 30, 2022 at 7:08 AM
    #2
    devron11

    devron11 New Member

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  3. Aug 30, 2022 at 7:52 AM
    #3
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    The rear air suspension will automatically level but depending on the weight of your trailer you may still need to run a weight distribution hitch. The point of the weight distribution hitch is not to level the truck, it’s to move weight off the rear axle onto the steering axle so you can turn.
     
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  4. Aug 30, 2022 at 8:17 AM
    #4
    jtundrag

    jtundrag New Member

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    First off, I am in no way an expert on this topic. I've been trying to figure out the proper trailering setup as well. The Tundra manual makes no mention of how to get the Rear Height Control to work with weight distribution bars. All they say is to add weight distribution bars if the trailer is more than 5k lb and in another, completely unrelated section they say to set the Rear Height Control to Manual before attaching/detaching the trailer. Some other discussions on this forum say to not even use Rear Height Control when using weight distribution bars because you are essentially undoing the weight distribution when the Rear Height Control balances the truck. I tried to not use the Rear Height Control system, only the weight distribution bars but the extra tongue weight makes the Rear Height Control system read LO-Man. After driving off it automatically sets itself back to N because the system doesn't want you to be in LO when driving at faster speeds.

    Here's what I've done the last couple of trips and I've been happy with the feel of the truck but I worry the weight distribution bars aren't distributing the weight as much as they should be:
    1) Set Rear Height Control to N-Man
    2) Hook up trailer with weight distribution bars in as high a tension as I'm comfortable with
    3) Set Rear Height Control to N and allow truck to balance

    Maybe the correct sequence of events when attaching the trailer is (NOTE: I have NOT tried this):
    1) Set Rear Height Control to N-Man
    2) Hook up trailer without the weight distribution bars
    3) Set Rear Height Control to N and allow truck to balance
    4) Set Rear Height Control to N-Man
    5) Attached weight distribution bars
    6) Set Rear Height Control to N

    It is hard to figure out what measurements I should expect at each stage with Rear Height Control thrown into the equation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  5. Aug 30, 2022 at 8:38 AM
    #5
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Devron11 - thanks for the link! I've actually wondered why the bed of the truck looks low (reverse rake) while sitting in the garage , will check out underneath.
    xc_tc - need to hook up trailer and drive around to calibrate cameras etc, will see what everything looks like then. For sure on moving weight for steering. Weight distribution is key for this and our race cars etc.
     
  6. Aug 30, 2022 at 12:47 PM
    #6
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Thanks jtundrag!
    I've pulled campers/race cars etc forever and understand leveling bars putting wait "up front" after taking "sag" from rear end.
    Dealer told me they don't want any consequences for telling anyone what to do and said ask an RV company.
    I'll get into this deeper over the weekend. It would be great if you could manually get the AVS up to a certain height and then level bar the rest of the way (more or less what I've done in the past with AirLift bags)
    Will post what I figure out, if anything.
     
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  7. Aug 30, 2022 at 5:54 PM
    #7
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    The way I would do it is:
    1. Hook up trailer
    2. Let rear suspension level
    3. Install weight distribution bars as desired
    4. Let rear suspension level again
    5. Check front fender height and compare to unloaded. If it’s the same don’t do anything. If it’s smaller, redo the load bars with one chain link looser. If it’s bigger, redo the load bars with one chain link tighter.
    Tightening the load bars when the vehicle is in the N position makes the rear end height go up a bit. When the rear readjusts back to N, the load bars will be tighter than initially installed.
     
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  8. Aug 31, 2022 at 5:45 AM
    #8
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    xc_tc - spoke with Equal-i-zer (my leveling bar mfg) and they told me, must disable the AVS (or any other auto leveling equipment) to use with their bars. Basically said the AVS and their bars would keep working against each other and cause very bad weight distribution/handling. With that being said, I messed around with the truck last night. I loaded up bed, used "HI" setting (gained about 1.5" from original no load 37.25" fender well height) and then switched to "MAN" with the mode setting switch. This per the manual (under disabling the height control) states - "the vehicle height is fixed at the current height". I turned the truck off/on and it stayed at same height. I'm assuming in this current state, the AVS is acting like aftermarket air bags that hold at whatever air you put in them. Guess next step will be to hook up trailer and see how much it squats the truck. At that point I can adjust up the leveling limit switches under the truck like other have on this forum (with good success) if needed and then use leveling bars as in the past. Still planning on contacting dealership later today in regards to this and demand an answer. More to come.
     
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  9. Sep 5, 2022 at 11:49 AM
    #9
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Saga continues.
    No matter any steps or configuration, the rear of the truck sags 2+ inches below unloaded height. IMO the bag suspension can't hold up a trailer/camper to level and where truck needs to sit while trailering. The weight distribution hitch can't be adjusted anymore to lift back/shift weight to front. I did max adjustment and was no better. It can't overcome very little truck rear suspension.
    Dealer said bring it in. Guess will take truck and trailer and say fix it.
    The H mode (where I can get truck/trailer sitting good) for height can't be kept, no matter if owners manual says it can. Over 8mph switches to N and height is lost. Manual claims later on that this is to keep truck center of gravity low, while driving at speed. In reality this should stay H for trailering.
    I wonder how the Toyota promo videos pulling Airstreams were hitched/ truck settings. That can't be found.
    Wish deal wasn't done at this point......
     
  10. Sep 5, 2022 at 12:03 PM
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    Retired...finally

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    Do you have any pictures showing your WDH while connected up?
     
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  11. Sep 5, 2022 at 12:45 PM
    #11
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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  12. Sep 5, 2022 at 1:34 PM
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    Weight Distribution Hitch
     
  13. Sep 5, 2022 at 5:04 PM
    #13
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    No
    Will hook up tomorrow night for pics
     
  14. Sep 5, 2022 at 5:16 PM
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    jtundrag

    jtundrag New Member

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    I’m curious if the front drops at all.
     
  15. Sep 5, 2022 at 7:45 PM
    #15
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Stays fairly static when in H.
    With trailer, in N, gains basically what rear compresses. Can't get that difference back.
    Unsure why this issue isn't taken care of somehow by the truck.
    As stated before in previous trucks, used Aiift to raise rear to perfection. No concern of high center of gravity, wth.
     
  16. Sep 6, 2022 at 6:29 PM
    #16
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    There it is, in its squatted glory, wtf. N setting.
    Requested wdh picture.


    20220906_190636.jpg 20220906_190904.jpg
     
  17. Sep 6, 2022 at 7:56 PM
    #17
    jtundrag

    jtundrag New Member

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    BTW (and off topic), I've found that my Tundra's tailgate clears the automatic tongue jack if you rotate the jack motor head 90°. That looks like a Lippert power tongue jack, right? There are a bunch of YouTube videos on how to do it. Despite what most of them said, mine didn't have the holes pre-drilled so I had to drill and then use a tap to make the threads. If you do decide to go that route, make sure you get the holes EXACTLY lined up. Mine were off by a very small amount (i.e. when one was bolted in, the other wouldn't catch) and I had a heck of a time getting it to thread.
     
  18. Sep 6, 2022 at 8:20 PM
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    Retired...finally

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    Thank you. How many washers are between the head and the shank?
     
  19. Sep 6, 2022 at 11:24 PM
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    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    I’ve never used this type before… can you tilt the hitch head down?
     
  20. Sep 7, 2022 at 12:37 AM
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    Retired...finally

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    If it is an Equalizer, yes, you can. A hint on those spacer washers. Go to the bulk nut and bolt section of the hardware store and dig through the washer bins looking for washers of different thicknesses. Swapping thicker washers for thinner will help you fine tune your hitch. When I set mine up 6 was too much and 5 not enough. Substituted two of the included washers for two slightly thinner ones put me right where I wanted.
     
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  21. Sep 7, 2022 at 4:40 AM
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    Retired...finally

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    Looking at the attached screen capture from the manual it looks like #19 is missing. #25 & 26 are the rivet and adjustment washers that fit between the head and shank. More washers = more force on the spring bars.Screenshot_20220907-073644_Hancom Office S Viewer.jpg

    Screenshot_20220907-032803_Hancom Office S Viewer.jpg

    Step #2 is about parts 25 & 26. Step 5 is about the bolt # 19.

    Yet a third way to fine tune the WDH is adjusting the distance the L brackets are from the head. Moving them further back effectively reduces spring pressure. Be cautious getting them too far back and risk the outside spring bar being pulled off the L bracket. I did a complete 360 with my wife on the inside of the turn watching for interference between the TV and the TT. With the 21 it's tight. Then stop and measure the amount of spring bar extenting past the L bracket on the outside. Since my tongue weight is ~ 550 # and I'm using 800 # spring bars I moved my L brackets further aft to ease the pressure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
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  22. Sep 7, 2022 at 4:48 AM
    #22
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ I drink…and I know things. Staff Member

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    A metric buttload
    Something isn’t right. As @Retired...finally suggested looks like something is missing but could be just our point of view in relation to the picture.

    What is your tongue weight? What is the rating on your LDH? Are you following the install instructions to the letter?

    Air bags should be used only as a fine tuning is needed:

    -Disable airlift system.
    -Hook up hitch and adjust as necessary.
    -Use airbags as a fine adjustment (needs to come up 1/4”). Now I don’t know a damn thing about the Toyota leveling system, but if it were Firestone bags I would bump up the air pressure 5 psi at a time and see how it tows.

    Air bags are for heavy payloads (like ten 80lb bags of concrete) or other trailer style hitches (GN or 5th wheel).
     
  23. Sep 7, 2022 at 5:17 AM
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    You're lucky. My electric jack required me to grind the welds holding the 3 bolt flange to the mast and reweld after rotating 90* I was able to just barely open the tailgate by stacking about 3/4" of flat washers and placing them between the jack flange and the trailer frame and using longer bolts.
    A word of caution: My frame is a Lippert with threads in the top plate only. No nut welded underneath. I added a nut under the frame plate on two of the three bolts. The one in front just isn't accessible.
     
  24. Sep 7, 2022 at 11:12 AM
    #24
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for all replies!
    Just towed 250 miles as is. No issues, just seemed a little light in front, driven worse.
    3 washers.
    Can't disable air, manual says you can.
    Since cant disable air, when bars lift up, bags deflate accordingly.
     
  25. Sep 19, 2022 at 2:08 PM
    #25
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Update.
    On way back from this trip ran into rain/wind. NOT good, steering was way too "light".
    Upon return I did try adding spacer washers to hitch. No difference. There's just not enough rear suspension to hold anything up. Weight dist hitch isn't made to do it all.
    Have an appt at dealership, bringing truck/trailer as loaded to them. Will see.
    I weight 212 lbs. When I stand on tailgate step, the tailgate comes down about 2"! Granted that's with engine off, but trying to move items from tailgate onto something else is about impossible with that kind of drop. No way it should compress that much, with or without engine on.
    More to come.
     
  26. Sep 19, 2022 at 3:52 PM
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    Mookie

    Mookie New Member

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    OP, it does look like the hitch ball needs more spacers. That will angle the head back, which does nothing, but it also angles the bars down, which does everything. The bars are basically levers to lever weight towards the front. Equalizer has a great video out there somewhere where they put scales under all the wheels to compare using air bags alone for leveling agains leveling with wdh. Air bags alone actually increase the weight on the rear axle.

    PS: how much tongue weight does the trailer have?
     
  27. Sep 19, 2022 at 6:33 PM
    #27
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Currently have max amount of washers/spacers in use. Ball height in relation to trailer hitch is correct.
    Don't know tongue weight, same trailer on two previous GMCs (no issues). Ultra light 24', this is all a Toyota issue.
     
  28. Sep 21, 2022 at 6:20 PM
    #28
    Cartman

    Cartman [OP] New Member

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    Welp, got to dealer at 8am with trailer, left at 345pm. Not fixed. Apparently they are calling Toyota and assuming a field tech will be coming. All they did was adjust bump stop gap. Knowing that I told them not fixed and was right. Trailer still at dealer.
    Shop guy couldn't believe what the truck was doing, especially not doing what owners manual said it would/should.
    My trade in was still there and I suggested putting the trailer on it. They didn't want any part of that.
    Wtf!
    More to come.
     
  29. Sep 22, 2022 at 12:01 PM
    #29
    Old Coyote

    Old Coyote New Member

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    I believe some posters (jtundrag) on this thread are confusing the "AVS" system, and the "REAR HEIGHT CONTROL" system. These are separate Options and you may have either or both. It is the Rear Height Control system that raises and lowers the rear of your truck (and bed).

    I have a 2022 Tundra and have been towing a 5,000 lb Travel Trailer (TT), using an Andersen Weight Distributions Hitch (WDH) with NO problems for several months.

    My experience has been that IF I follow the Manual instructions to place the Rear Height Control (RHCS) at N (Normal height) BEFORE attaching my TT and THEN adjusting my WDH, adding tension to move some load to the front axle, that the Tundra will then Self adjust using the RHCS to bring the rear of the truck back to Normal with NO SQUAT, as I suspect it was designed to do.

    The problem Cartman (the OP) has been experience being MAY have to do with the Tongue Weight (TW) of his TT, and/or the Total Payload he is attempting to have the RHCS adjust for. Hopefully you realize that the Tundra only has a Total MAXIMUM Payload about ±1,500 lb (depending on the model/trim level/options). If you exceed this amount in drastic way, it MAY be causing your problems.

    In my case my Payload includes: passengers/interior cargo at ±480 lbs; Fuel (32 gal) at ±190 lbs; Hitch Load (Tongue Wt+Hitch) ±410-730 lbs (depending on WDH setting); Bed Load (camp gear/generator/etc) at ±300-450 lbs, for a Total Payload of ±1,380-1,850 lbs. The RHCS handles this with NO problem and NO SQUAT, even when occasionally OVER the Specified Payload. The Tundra tows beautifully with no TT sway or porpoising. I always adjust the WDH to make sure that my Rear Axle is not overloaded, by transferring some of the Tongue weight back to the TT Axle and some forward to the Front Axle of the Tundra.

    I suspect jacking around with the RHCS when attaching your TT may be problematic, as you are trying to outwit the Toyota engineers and make it do some trick it was not designed to do. In Towing it is usually the Total Payload of the Tow Vehicle that is the limiting factor

    I hope you will be able to overcome your troubles and have a fun and safe Towing experience as I have. GOOD LUCK
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  30. Sep 23, 2022 at 5:47 PM
    #30
    jtundrag

    jtundrag New Member

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    oops, I did think that was the same thing. Thanks for the correction.
     

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