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Towing rear suspension setup

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by LOTSOFTOYS, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Jun 10, 2015 at 6:09 AM
    #1
    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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    Ok, so who tows with their first gen?
    I'm lifting mine about 3 inches... was thinking an aal and Firestone rider it airbags in the rear with longer billies for shocks... my truck has the 4 leaf pack in it now with overload.
    a complete leaf pack would be choice, but im searchin and finding custom from alcan is probably my only option that route.

    I will not run blocks.

    Sooooo... will the aal with bags work for me? The truck has rake right now so may not need the full 3 inches out back, maybe only 2. Let's hear the good, bad and ugly lol
     
  2. Jun 10, 2015 at 6:27 AM
    #2
    Sean266

    Sean266 #ThinBlueLine Staff Member

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    @Mike do u tow anything?
     
  3. Jun 10, 2015 at 6:41 AM
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    Mike

    Mike Tread lightly.

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    Go with the alcan springs its really the only way to go with our 1st gens. Alcan can really set up the springs where you dont need air bags, that said you can still run the air bags if you want to but I bet not. Imo alcan is the best in rhe business man custom made the way you want.

    Alcan is the ONLY way im going in my set up on my 03. Tho mine will not be lifted any, I need a better spring that stock back there.
     
  4. Jun 10, 2015 at 6:42 AM
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    Mike

    Mike Tread lightly.

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    yep bank account is running low from it..
    I have 11,000 pounds a few times. Opps.
     
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  5. Jun 10, 2015 at 9:17 AM
    #5
    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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    The difference in price for a custom leaf pack vs an aal and air bags is gonna be pretty substantial... and in don't see a leaf pack handling as much weight as the airbags would that isn't a bone breaking ride when unloaded?
     
  6. Jun 10, 2015 at 9:26 AM
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    Wynnded

    Wynnded Wait, what?

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    Talk with the guys at Alcan about what to expect for unladen ride quality on springs built to tow what you're looking at. I've been on the phone and into their shop, they were really great to deal with.
     
  7. Jun 10, 2015 at 9:28 AM
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    Mike

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    Price when pay when you do stuff RIGHT saves you money and time in the long run.

    Sure you can throw a AAL and airbags on it problem you have is not really FIXING the problem your only putting a band aid on it and hoping for the best. You might blow all that money on AAL and airbags only to find out guess what its not really doing its job correctly.

    Edit as for unloaded talk to alcan they can solve your problem.
     
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  8. Jun 10, 2015 at 11:21 AM
    #8
    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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    I'm not sure I'd call an aal and bags a bandaid, it's just a different Avenue to take... I will talk to alcan, they are here in my home state so that helps. We'll see what they say.
     
  9. Jun 10, 2015 at 11:34 AM
    #9
    Mike

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    If the springs where built right to start then this conversation would be happening right? I stand correct.
     
  10. Jun 13, 2015 at 11:52 PM
    #10
    Rkcruza

    Rkcruza New Member

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    De Badged / Decaled, Firestone Ride Rite Air Bags w/ Daystar Cups, 17" Rims, Big Brake kit w/ slotted & drilled rotors, plus lots of work related stuff.
    Not sure about lifted and towing. My 02 is a TRD OR AC and is a work truck so weighs in about 5800 before I put anything in the bed due to side boxes that are full and a lumber rack. I put Ride Rites on it and when the stock rear shocks died put the HD Bilsteins on it. I've towed my FJ40 on a 16ft. Carson in excess of 10k miles (I like Moab) and have had 0 issues, tows great. The only issue I had was with the lower airbag mounts snapping retaining bolts (Firestone says they don't do well with the TRD springs). Installed Daystar Buckets and the problem went away. As my truck is always heavy I wired the brake proportioning valve wide open all the time and I run about 10psi with nothing added to the bed and the truck sits at about stock height. When I tow I bump them up to about 25-30psi and it still sits close to stock (level or a tad rear high). Have plans to put the same setup on the new Pro Taco as the shell made it squat a tad and so now it is rear end low by about a 1/2". Another thought if you want some lift is stock Tundra 2wd rears as they have more arch than the 4wd version and would be a factory swap.....
     
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  11. Jun 14, 2015 at 4:59 AM
    #11
    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    18"X9" FN BFD's rims, 295/70R/18E Cooper Discoverer STT Pro's, upgraded to Old Man EMU coil-overs/shocks. Toytec shackles Next: true dual exhaust, new UCA's.
    I like the Daystar bucket idea. Are the 1st gen leafs in a trapezoidal configuration? I know your air bag lower mount breakage issue is not isolated. At least on 2nd gens and up. I know someone with this same problem. From what he has been able to find out, it has to do with the trapezoidal configuration of the rear leafs. If the 1st gens leafs aren't trapezoidal then probably bed/leaf resonance is contributing to premature breakage of the lower air bag mounts. Maybe. IMO. I believe he was at the local Camping World and was told about this unique 2nd gen and up problem. It makes sense if you apply some trig to the equation. Force or energy is normally directed up or down in a parallel configuration. With the trapezoidal configuration the force is skewed. We have to account for "skew" when calibrating tensiometers used on air craft for example or force gages for determining thrust. Tension and force are inter related. The trapezoidal configuration may also amplify the bed bounce effect because of the added "skew". The air bags are very good at minimizing bed bounce but lower mounts are absorbing the "un-used " energy and break after awhile. Similar to a heatsink,except in this case enegy is being absorbed. At certain a certain speed the leaf springs reach resonant frequency = bed bounce. This maybe what is going on with your 1st gens even if not trapezoidal. Probably just more pronounced on the 2nd gens and up. All things have resonant frequencies. These are basic engineering principals. Leaf springs are no different. A suspension bridge can reach resonant frequency under high winds and collapse (has actually happened).Glass reaches resonance and breaks. I will pass along the Daystar fix. Thanks for that info.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
  12. Jun 14, 2015 at 4:30 PM
    #12
    Rkcruza

    Rkcruza New Member

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    On the 1st gen Tundras the airbags sit just forward of the axle (not over it as on the Tacos). My understanding is that at full extension it stresses the bolts. Did many things, grade 8 bolts etc. Finally cracked a lower mount so I bought the buckets and new lower mounts. With this setup you don't have to crank down on the lower mounts, simply snug them up and put a nylock as a second nut as all the mount is doing is holding the Daystar Bucket in place. No issues since I have done that.
     
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  13. Jun 14, 2015 at 4:32 PM
    #13
    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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  14. Jun 14, 2015 at 4:40 PM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    That's a great solution for any setup. Best to do that in the beginning now that we know what to do. Cool.
     
  15. Jun 17, 2015 at 7:27 PM
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    Rkcruza

    Rkcruza New Member

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  16. Jun 18, 2015 at 9:24 AM
    #16
    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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    Very cool. Here's amother question. With a mild lift 2-3 inches... do I get the longer ride rites or the standard?
     
  17. Jun 18, 2015 at 2:41 PM
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    Rkcruza

    Rkcruza New Member

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    I wasn't aware they made a longer version. I know with mine, at full flex the bags are about 3-4" out of the cups so the longer ones might be a good idea if they are available. Mine is a stock trd or rear suspension but it has a lot of droop travel which was one of the issues running the stock brackets without the daystar buckets. Longer bags might have helped. See what Firestones site says, but if they would work I'd definitely say go with the longer bags.
     
  18. Jun 18, 2015 at 5:12 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    I had nothing but an AAL Jace. IMO, if you're towing anything over 5k, you'll be using a weight distributing hitch. Airbags only help in bringing the ass of the truck back up when it's severely squatted. However if your WD hitch is setup properly, the rear of the truck will be neither severely squatted nor raked. I personally don't believe in airbags used in tandem with a WD hitch as they either oppose or amplify each other in terms of forces depending on dive or squat resulting in even rougher felt ride. I would only suggest airbags with a Non-WD hitch towing load.
     
  19. Jun 18, 2015 at 5:33 PM
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    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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    Yes not using a WD hitch any time soon. I'm looking to throw 1200 pds of sless on top of about a 500 pd sled deck in the bed. So no more than 2000 pds in the back. But I'd prefer it to not squat all helacious like so many I see do.
     
  20. Jun 18, 2015 at 6:00 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    I'd advise against it. You'll exceed payload and GVRW with that much weight.
    Get a cheap trailer and call it a day. One sled in the bed, one in the trailer. It's a first gen tundra, not a f250
     
  21. Jun 18, 2015 at 6:10 PM
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    LOTSOFTOYS

    LOTSOFTOYS [OP] New Member

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    Eh? I see tundras do it all the time? I have trailers... we'll see.
     
  22. Jun 18, 2015 at 6:23 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    I see math is complicated for you. Let me break it down.

    GVRW is 6600 lbs.
    Curb weight on your pig is 4215 lbs
    26 gallons of gas is 164 lbs
    You're tall skinny ass is probably 175 lbs
    Lets assume one more 175 lb person since you're hauling two sleds
    2000 lbs in sleds and deck as you mentioned.

    6600-4215-164-175-175-2000 = 46 lbs

    Which basically means that if you add one more person, or any amount of sledding gear, or larger than factory tires, or beer, or even have a binge taco bell meal, you'll exceed GVRW.

    In terms of payload, I don't have the owners manual anymore. But I'm fairly certain for your DC 4x4, the payload is 1600 lbs. Just adding your tall skinny ass and two sleds/deck...payload has been exceeded.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
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  23. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:03 PM
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    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck New Member

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    46 pounds left.... Sounds like as long as he doesn't eat a big lunch he's good! Your math is impeccable!
     
  24. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:05 PM
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    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck New Member

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    I've been close to overloading my truck at times and it wasn't the most pleasant experience... Probably a good idea to play it safe like Jason is saying
     
  25. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:21 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Having warped two sets of rotors on a first gen, both times from overloading. I can tell you it's not just playing it safe. It's reality.
     
  26. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:22 PM
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    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck New Member

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    Warped rotors! Damn...
     
  27. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:23 PM
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    Mike

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    Over heated yep.
     
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  28. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:25 PM
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    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Hence the significant change in brakes with the 07+
     
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  29. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:33 PM
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    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck New Member

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    Of course, it's a bigger truck. Is it a lot less likely to warp them if you overload a 2nd gen?
     
  30. Jun 18, 2015 at 7:35 PM
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    Mike

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    You can warp any brakes. Too much weight and too heavy on the braking they are toasted. Disc today dont have a very high heat tolerance with our trucks.
    Slotted rotors will help only some if the truck is over loaded.
     
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