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Timing Chain convince me otherwise.

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Rebel Tundra Man, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. Mar 3, 2021 at 2:41 PM
    #91
    Vizsla

    Vizsla

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    The tensioner that usually goes bad on the driver side is a ratchet type with a non-return mechanism, supposed to hold chain always tensioned. When it fails the noise occurs till oil pressure catches up, so SeaFoam might mask it some, but it’s not going to fix something that is broken. Can remove the oil fill tube from the valve cover and get a visual to confirm/eliminate the one that usually fails, has to make the noise while checking.
     
    Rebel Tundra Man [OP] likes this.
  2. Mar 3, 2021 at 6:08 PM
    #92
    Dalandshark

    Dalandshark Recently infected with 5G

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    Just curious, if it’s non return, how would it fail? It wont ratchet out when the guides wear?

    Also will note that there is a video on you tube a guy had his head gaskets replaced (one bad) and also timing chains, tensioners and guides. He shows the chains appears to be just fine but shows wear on the guides at 170k I think.... so maybe @sixweeds just needs the guides and tensioner replaced.
    Thanks for update @Rebel Tundra Man.
     
  3. Mar 3, 2021 at 6:26 PM
    #93
    Vizsla

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    The non-return part fails?
     
  4. Mar 3, 2021 at 6:53 PM
    #94
    Dalandshark

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    I see, just sounds like it would be failsafe as a ratchet.

    Edit: Just watched this video... best one I’ve seen as far as showing all the parts and process to change timing chain and tensioners. Looks like both can be bad. Chain and tensioner not that expensive vs labor so may as well do all of them. https://youtu.be/3cOvWBaLSjQ
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  5. Mar 4, 2021 at 10:16 AM
    #95
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    sometimes an o ring seal will blow out or leak by and oil pressure at the tensioner is reduced.
     
  6. Mar 4, 2021 at 3:16 PM
    #96
    sixweeds

    sixweeds New Member

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    Wow...great comments. You guys are on it. Today, it was around freezing in the garage and it slapped a little for about 1 minute then quieted. At 1:eek:0 this afternoon, after sitting 6 hours, it was 57 degrees outside and it was as quiet as it ever was. So, oil temperature, and oil pressure are definitely a contributing factor. My thinking was I don't just want to replace the timing chains/tensioners if there's an underlying issue. I'm going to continue to monitor. If the chain continues to slap the cover, I'll go ahead and replace them and the tensioners like the guy in the YouTube video. I'd watched that before as well. There are a couple of other helpful ones as well as some on the Lexus 5.7L (same engine I assume). Best case scenario: SeaFoam cleans clogged/plugged orifice/galley/passageway and tensioner get oil when it should. Worst case: replace parts. If I go that route, any recommendations on quality parts kit with four chains and four tensioners?
     
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  7. Mar 11, 2021 at 12:13 PM
    #97
    Rebel Tundra Man

    Rebel Tundra Man [OP] New Member

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    https://youtu.be/88PUDIjw5XM

    Reporting back for everyone following this story, I took this video on Monday, after I stopped to visit the shop that has my truck. My mechanic showed me what they found. It is obvious that the driver side (the chain on the right) is loose due to the tensioner. I did not inspect the guides or anything else. I can say the chains are immaculate still after 100k miles. The next order of business is the approval of insurance/warranty over all the parts/labor. I will report back in a few days about this as well. The secretary of the shop told me yesterday that they were awaiting an adjuster to stop by to inspect everything.
     
  8. Mar 11, 2021 at 3:03 PM
    #98
    scpete24

    scpete24 Duuuuuuude

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    Thank you for letting us know what your issue was, good amount of slack there but also good to know chain still looked good after 100K
     
  9. Mar 11, 2021 at 3:37 PM
    #99
    Dalandshark

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    @Rebel Tundra Man thanks for the update and short video. I’m sure this is my problem too- “normal” :rofl:
     
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  10. Mar 11, 2021 at 3:50 PM
    #100
    Vizsla

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  11. Mar 11, 2021 at 4:04 PM
    #101
    Dalandshark

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    Well, I feel like the difference in how the tensioner is mounted on the driver’s side has something to do with their “normal” failures.
     
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  12. Mar 11, 2021 at 4:16 PM
    #102
    Vizsla

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    Seems like it. Maybe there are 2 failures, non-return fails, and oil bleeds down due to orientation on the driver side. But the motion ratio/leverage(I don’t know how to say it better) on the tensioners is different also, so I know nothing.
     
  13. Mar 11, 2021 at 4:30 PM
    #103
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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  14. Mar 11, 2021 at 4:34 PM
    #104
    Rocko9999

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    I think you may be on to something. Some have noise on cold starts that go away soon and don't return until cold again. Other have noises only when hot-me. Mine never makes noise when remotely cold(engine temp not ambient).
     
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  15. Mar 17, 2021 at 5:16 AM
    #105
    Rebel Tundra Man

    Rebel Tundra Man [OP] New Member

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    The aftermarket warranty company has approved everything, and also told the shop owner to order OEM Toyota parts for it. The adjuster from the warranty company did end up coming to look my truck over and he noticed that the tensioner on the passenger side is leaking oil out of a seal on it also, and told my mechanic to replace everything and he would have it covered. The only problem I ran into with this whole ordeal, which was kinda my own fault to begin with, but when I purchased the extended warranty the plan was not went over with me that clearly. There is an option that you have to pay an extra fee for on the plan that includes a lift kit and wheel/tire modification. I was however allowed to purchase this option before all of this was able to be approved.
     
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  16. Mar 17, 2021 at 9:26 AM
    #106
    scpete24

    scpete24 Duuuuuuude

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    What aftermarket warranty did you get and did you get it when you purchased or after?
     
  17. Mar 17, 2021 at 10:57 AM
    #107
    Rebel Tundra Man

    Rebel Tundra Man [OP] New Member

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    The company is Alpha Warranty Service, I purchased it when I bought the truck at the dealership. I cant remember the price of it, but there were a couple of extra options that can be bought and added to the total package, like I said above, the Lift kit & Wheel/ Tire Mod was one of these options. I am unsure if it can be purchased after you have owned the truck or not.
     
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  18. Mar 22, 2021 at 8:08 AM
    #108
    Rebel Tundra Man

    Rebel Tundra Man [OP] New Member

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    Good Morning everyone, Just wanted to give a final update to everyone following this story, the work was completed on the truck friday afternoon, I went and picked it up and drove it all weekend. Everything seems to be great now. No issues that I heard. The bill came out to be $2,700 after all parts and labor. The warranty company did not bat an eye though. I will report back if there are any issues down the road from this.
     
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  19. Mar 22, 2021 at 5:47 PM
    #109
    pillpusher84

    pillpusher84 New Member

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    thanks ... very good to know!
     
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  20. Apr 19, 2021 at 9:45 PM
    #110
    Dalandshark

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    @blanchard7684

    Just wanted to update you guys on what I found after tearing down my truck. The main tensioner is both ratcheting and oil initiated. The ratcheting seems to prevent a complete fail, however the plunger still moves about 3/16 inch in a ratcheted position. In my case, it was frozen. In other words, the thing was NOT moving with the oil pressure but it was ratcheted out enough to keep it mostly tight.
    F5D9BB6F-E54A-44A9-AA31-92459544C33C.jpg
    F5D9BB6F-E54A-44A9-AA31-92459544C33C.jpg

    58EEF888-59D6-4289-9D9A-1964F94BF3D7.jpg
     
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  21. Apr 20, 2021 at 4:44 AM
    #111
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Thanks for the update on this.

    That looks like a plugged oil passage into the tensioner.

    Did you get this truck used?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  22. Apr 20, 2021 at 5:01 AM
    #112
    Rebel Tundra Man

    Rebel Tundra Man [OP] New Member

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    I did not get to see the parts that came out of my truck, but I assume the ratchet part was still good on mine. and keeping me from having a total loss. It is weird though as to why the tensioner would go in and out, because it did not happen consistently on mine.
     
  23. Apr 20, 2021 at 1:24 PM
    #113
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    What is your theory on why these fail? Build up preventing oil pressure to activate the plunger? Some kind of binding?
     
  24. Apr 20, 2021 at 9:28 PM
    #114
    Dalandshark

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    The oil passage did not seem to be plugged. The plunger was stuck though. On the front the hole is for the ratchet to be held open during install.
     
  25. Apr 20, 2021 at 9:33 PM
    #115
    Dalandshark

    Dalandshark Recently infected with 5G

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    I think it would be basically impossible for the ratchet to release itself. However, it is possible for it to not extend further if needed. In my case, with the plunger not moving as it should... I think it had sat unused at some point. I did buy the truck used. It was one owner and in good shape. I suppose it’s entirely possible the engine had been replaced or something but based on some available records it seems unlikely with 130,000 on odo when I bought it.

    Edit: to clarify I think the plunger fails to move properly either due to mileage, wrong oil?, bad manufacturing, or maybe sitting.
     
  26. Apr 20, 2021 at 9:58 PM
    #116
    Vizsla

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    Maybe you don’t have the same issue as the cold start noise. Lack of maintenance maybe?, that looks awful. The tensioner plunger going in and out makes the typical failed tensioner cold start noise, and you can watch the plunger going in and out if the oil fill tube is removed, not sure how it happens if the ratchet is holding, but I don’t know. Obviously your tensioner wasn’t moving.
     
  27. Apr 20, 2021 at 10:06 PM
    #117
    empty_lord

    empty_lord They see me rollin'

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    I’ve replaced a few of these tensioners.. and I’ve never soon one look that rough.. how’s the rest of the motor look inside? Looks like that engines lived a rough life
     
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  28. Apr 21, 2021 at 5:57 AM
    #118
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    That is coked oil that indicates an oil breakdown. Either from temp or oil degradation.

    Could be high OCI intervals, or wrong oil. Or truck got overheated. All that carbon can really muck things up.
     
  29. May 2, 2021 at 3:58 PM
    #119
    sixweeds

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    I just removed the engine cover to access the chains and tensioners. That was no easy job. I plan to post a more thorough report on all the things I learned, but suffice it to say, I finally got the cover off. In looking at my chains, the driver's side (left, is that correct?) was loose, but on the tensioner side of the chain. And on the right side (passenger?), the chain is loose on the opposite side from the tensioner. I was expecting the chain on the left side to be slack after it comes around the bottom of the bottom sprocket like in other videos. But it is loose BEFORE it gets down to the sprocket and you can push the chain guide in and out against the tensioner. To me, this would indicate that the tensioner is not all the way out and therefore, not putting pressure on that side of the chain and that that primary No. 1 tensioner is bad. On the right side, that tensioner is tight and the chain guide is tight against the chain. So to me, that No. 2 tensioner seems to be doing its job. Can anyone confirm that for me? My chains, guides and inside the engine cover and the back of the engine cover all look remarkably clean and in great condition. Should I pull the chains and all four tensioners and replace them? Should I pull them and measure their length (my Haynes manual says to measure worn chains, you measure between 15 pins at a few places around the long chain and if it is stretched beyond the limit (don't have the manual in front of me, so I don't know the specs), then you replace the chains. I'd love to just replace the one tensioner and reassemble. But of course I want to be sure the chains and tensioners are all doing their job before I put this beast back together. Any input/advice is appreciated. According to this, the chains are lifetime and never need replacing.
    The guides look unscathed and new. So I'm thinking just the primary No. 1 tensioner is all I'm needing. Suffice it to say, Seafoam did NOT eradicate the low oil pressure to this tensioner. It may just be in the design difference between the two main tensioners with the oil pocket design somehow causing the No. 1 tensioner fail. I'm not complaining. 187K and 14 years old and although my truck is very well taken care of, I use it like a truck was designed to be used. It's not a garage queen.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021 at 4:03 PM
  30. May 2, 2021 at 4:44 PM
    #120
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    Make sure you use FIPG when you put the cover back on. Get your info for reinstalling from a Toyota manual. I personally wouldn't trust a Haynes manual in this type of job.
    Screenshot_20210502-184114_Opera.jpg
     

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