Thoughts on towing an 8000 pound trailer?

Wouldn't the second trailer unload the tongue of the first trailer making it unstable?

 

I measured my tongue weight on a 2019 ORV 21RD at 950lbs with full propane, water, and every thing in front of the trailer loaded. The gross weight of the trailer is listed at 6750. Running the numbers on my 2022, rolling out the driveway with everything I normally carry, I’m about 60 lbs over the GVWR. With a couple of changes such as moving the batteries to the rear of the trailer when switching to LFP’s and putting the generator on a hitch carrier at the back of the trailer, gets me back around 200lbs of payload in the truck. Once I do that, it’s time for a trip to the CAT Scale to find the real numbers.

I have a lot of miles towing a 7000lb boat (no WDH) with a 2500HD and a 2012 Tundra. There wasn’t much difference. I have towed this ORV with both the 2012 and this 2022, and the difference is substantial. I am sure I am at the upper limit with the numbers but the truck doesn’t seem to notice it except at the gas pump.

Tom

 

It would so you would have to redistribute weight to get 10% on each tongue. I wouldn't recommend towing doubles without scales and the willingness to monkey around to get weights just right.


For those curious, in California:

2 bumper-pulled trailers are legal if the total truck-trailer-trailer combination is less than 65 feet in length.

A 5th wheel towing a bumper pull trailer is legal at 75 feet.

There is no overall length limit on STAA highways if you have two 5th wheel trailers that are each under 28'6" A converter dolly does not count against the 28 foot trailer length.

You do need a doubles endorsement on your license (and out of state drivers can apply)

 

Here's an excellent trailer towing weight calculator website: https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php
Be sure to read the acronym definitions carefully, misinterpreting some of them threw me for a loop the first time through.
Enjoy.

 

Looks interesting, I am wondering about the 1,800 lbs payload with WD? Is that in the manual?

I see that the WD returned 300 lbs to the trailer axle. I wonder what was returned to truck front axle? I would think that about 300 lbs as well.

 

Those values are some default from the calculator. You have to enter your own values for our trucks and your trailer. I had to start at the top and work all the way to the bottom changing many numbers.

 

I only thing I had a hard time with in the calculator was the tension on the bars. If I have a 1000lb tongue wt WDH what is the tension on the bars? I can find no value for that and the question I sent to manufacturer came back with a depends even though I asked for a range of values based on my trailer and hitch.

Tom

 

Most are 1000 pounds each, 2000 total. I looked on etrailer and they have a bunch in that range. Also asked etrailer for a recommendation for a 7000 pound trailer on tundra, they gave several 1000 pound each options.
Others may have more informed opinions.

 

I got this from my weigh safe app based on my settings and changed the trailer weight and tongue weight to resemble Paul’s settings.

This number is what I would tighten up the hitch head to which originally weighed the tongue static load.

I think the 1000lbs bars would make sense.

 

What does the weigh safe app do?

 

The app uses your values like that online calculator. It takes the tongue weight that you are able to read on the scale and gives you a preload force to dial in. There is a pivot on the hitch head where the load bars slot in. The load is cranked up until the scale reads the target number “2,100 lbs” which is the load applied to the bars.

All the parameters have been entered into the app like the distance from the rear axle to the hitch, the length of the load bars to the brackets on the trailer a-frame etc…

It is pretty easy to hit the target.

Since have been using this for several years now, it only takes a few minutes to setup and go.

 

I'm pretty sure I saw a tundra tow spaceship at some point

 

While I’m not a big fan of diesel emissions systems, this case you describe sounds like a dealer service shop throwing parts at the problem. Something upstream is causing the DEF system to go tits up, and until that is addressed throwing parts at it will not solve the issue.

Plus it’s a Ram, and they were later to the party introducing DEF to their diesels and have a bit less experience than Ford and GM.

I have several coworkers with newer 6.6L Duramax and 6.7L Powerstroke trucks, and they have all been very happy with them. All my Ram driving coworkers with gassers don’t get treated too badly, but the Ram diesels especially the 3.0L I hear nothing good about.

The only more horrible ownership experience related to me is a conductor I work with who owned a Nissan with the 5.0L Cummins; that truck was a dumpster fire, and dumpster was full of styrofoam, dog shit, and napalm with a sprinkling of Monkey Pox. He traded it in for a Titan with the 5.6L gas V8 and loves it.

 

1 gallon of water weighs 8.34lbs. If you want a full tank of fresh water you’ll be rocking 834lbs of water. Just so you can get a more accurate calculation, I think with full water and gear you’re looking at an 8134lb trailer.

Not sure where the fresh water holding tank in that trailer is, so using the 10% tongue weight is a safe bet. You already accounted for that, so I think you’ll be fine but once you and the wife and other stuff is in the truck you’re right up to near max payload.

Don’t drive like a maniac, and have some sympathy for the equipment. You’ll be fine.

Next time if there is a next time, pick your trailer first and let that dictate the capabilities of the truck.

 

There are a dozen of so trailer that have a 24' box size that are under 6,000 lbs dry.
I have a Jayco Flight 240RBSW. Dry weight 5,700, and has 1,600lbs cargo cap. I bought it on sale 7 yrs ago for $20,000.
For your information travel trailer have about a 30% markup. Take your time Looking.

 

The ram Ecodiesel is dead.

but a Powerstroke HO with 1200 ft-lbs of torque sounds mighty nice. I don't think it would ever have to downshift out of 10th gear towing my trailer

 

Me personally, I would NEVER tow at max capacity with any 1/2 ton. If memory serves, the 2017 Tacoma I had could tow my current 25' boat, what a joke. The Tacoma would shit itself if I hooked up my boat behind it. I have said it before, these manuf are all playing the "who can tow more game" with our lives is the way I see it. My boat comes in at around 6.5-7k and it's not scary by no means but it doesn't give that 100% confident either. Now can you imagine 12k?
If I am mistaken also, the 3rd gen also has no trans cooler. Another short cut from Toyota just like they did to the 19-21. And it's been shown on here that it needs it.

 

I don't know for sure that 3rd gen has trans cooler, but another thread has concluded that it does. Probably integrated into the engine radiator if it does.
I agree, 11k or 12k, what ever your truck's "tow" rating is is not the limiting factor. Payload definitely is.

What do y'all think of adding air bags to the rear to help this out? Toyota will never state that this helps payload, but it's got to help in the real world. Have to stay below rear axle rating of course. If I/we could get even another 300 pounds effective payload capacity that would be a game changer. But which air bags that don't break the bank, are easy to install and easy to air up and down??

 

I am tempted to try to buy an HO Powerstroke even though I rarely ever tow anything.

I’m a juvenile delinquent at heart, and 500 HP and 1200ft-lbs of torque sound potentially entertaining to yeet something the size of a small building down the road with.

I guess as an upside given how long I keep vehicles, if I ever do buy a boat or a camper (heaven forbid) I will not have nearly as much payload/towing angst as the 1/2 ton crowd trying to do 3/4 ton stuff.

 

3rd Gen does have a transmission cooler, it runs the fluid into a cooling loop integrated into the radiator. Not as effective as a stand alone air to liquid, but certainly better than the 19-21 models with nothing.

 

Not to be a contrarian here, but it seems like you’re willing to spend the money dicking around modifying your Tundra to make it do stuff it wasn’t meant to do; have you considered getting rid of it? While I suspect you will be fine for occasional towing up to that 8,000 lb mark, you have doubts and concerns. Understandable since you want more margin to not have to sweat how much weight you have in the truck, on the tongue etc.

So trade or sell the Tundra while values for pre owned 3rd Gens are still hot, and go buy a 3/4 ton. You might take a financial hit, but you’re going to anyway if you throw parts at your current truck to have it still less capable.

Buy a bigger truck, problem solved. A 3/4 ton gives you:

Bigger frame, bigger full floating axles with better gearing, bigger brakes, bigger beefier transmissions with real transmission coolers. Plus ample payload to take the worry out of your trailer towing adventures.

GM is going to put the 10 speed behind their 6.6L gasoline V8 once the updated HD’s show up. Ford is offering 6.8L and 7.3L gas V8’s backed by their 10 speed as well here in a few months. Those wouldn’t be terribly out of reach price wise for similar options vs what you could probably sell your 1794 Tundra for.

 

Do it! WDH for the win and enjoy your family time… that’s why we buy these things!!!

 

I knew they had that but yes not very effective as a stand alone. I kinda never considered the radiator loop a cooler per se.

 

Yeah, some people consider the radiator loop a cooler per se. While it might help some it’s not nearly as effective as a stand alone. To me Toyota cheapened out for more profit. Same thing they did to the 19-21. I fixed that and added a stand alone, the way Toyota should have done it. No more heat issues. Any tow vehicle should have the accessories to tow the weight it’s required and maintain all fluids in check.

As for you air bag question, like coal dragger said, your trying to justify pulling that much weight with your truck. Me personally, these trucks are not meant for these weights. Sure, it can pull it in a straight line and stop in a closed coarse but that’s now real life. When I bought my boat, I had to tow it around 250 miles to my house. This boat is the heaviest boat I have owned and like I said, while it wasn’t scary, it also wasn’t 100% confidence. I kept it around 60-65 and you can feel it back there. You can tell that in an emergency maneuver that the boat can control the truck instead of the other way around.

 

I would be careful with the air bags. Do some research on this subject as it pertains to towing a camper. It will level your rear end sag, but will ADD weight to your rear axle. You’re basically putting a band aid on a bigger problem. The bigger problem is that you did not properly dial in your weight distribution hitch. My advice is to visit the CAT scales and perform the “Three Pass Approach.” Stay under your axle ratings and go camping!
If you really want to dive into some details, read up on Andy Thompson out of Ontario Canada. He is the towing guru and you will learn a ton.

Safe Travels!

 

Rig looks good, Have you tried pulling your Airstream with your 2022 Tundra?

Andy Thompson from Canam RV in London Ontario has been setting up tow vehicles for decades and is worth reaching out to discuss any questions you have. He is very helpful and also very busy.

 

I agree on air bags and wdh. They can be used together but you have to be careful. The air bags leveling the back of the truck unloads the wdh bars effectively cancelling their weight transfer.

I have air bags, and I have an Equalizer wdh. I either dont use the bags at all or I use them just to level the truck due to weight in the bed(generator, wood, etc) prior to hooking up the trailer.

 

I can’t comment on towing with a 3rd gen but I have a Transcend 265BH that is 33ft and about 8300lbs fully loaded out at most. I have an equalizer 4 point setup correctly. With my dogs and their kennels and generator in the bed I’m right at rear axle weight, good amount back on the front, and a couple hundred over rated payload. I’m not overly concerned. Truck doesn’t skip a beat. It’s worth noting that was on a recent trip that was 10 days and had TONS of stuff in the camper. Typical weights are 8k or under for weekends and 3-4 day trips and I’m typically right at payload or slightly under. I scale the whole setup quite regularly because I’m curious

 

Whats your payload on that truck?

 

I’m a “tow police” style guy in that I don’t think things should be grossly overloaded but I’m a realist in that they may at times be slightly. Here’s a weigh slip from my last trip, and my door sticker. I was 600lbs over GVWR and 90lbe over RGAWR. Is that a super concerning amount to me….no not really. Was still under all other weights. That was with a full fuel take too. I have E rated all terrains so the tires have the carrying capacity, I know the axle was tested well over that capacity by Toyota, I’m comfortable with it considering I tow 1x a month on average for only several months out of the year. Typically the trailer is lighter than this, we were on a 10 day trip “loaded down”. I confirmed I had about 350lbs in the bed between the generator, dogs, kennels, and bikes.

What do you all think?