Thoughts on towing an 8000 pound trailer?

Back to the original post if y'all don't mind

If I do the math, 6750 pound dry weight trailer, 650 pounds fresh water, 600 pounds for the stuff we put in the trailer = 8000 pounds. I'll leave gray and black water tank weight out as that weight comes from consuming fresh water tank weight. Then 10% for tongue weight, let's call that 850 pounds to round up a bit, plus 100 pounds for the WDH itself. Now we're at 950 pounds due to the trailer. The Tundra sticker says 1310 pound payload minus 10 pounds reduced for options, an even 1300 pounds. That leaves 350 pounds for two people and truck cargo. Sounds close. (my original post sounded like there was an additional 500 pounds of cargo, not correct, just two people and a bit of personal stuff).

Would it be fair to say that it's "ok" to get close to or right at the rated Tundra payload rating since this weight could have been mostly on the rear axle if it were say gravel in the bed of the truck? But with a WDH some weight is moved to the front axle. Not using this as a justification to go over rated payload, but as an excuse to go much closer to payload than to rated towing limit.

I stand by my statement that I'm very hesitant to go more than about 80% of rated towing based on bad experiences with trailer sway and under powered engines. Our gen 3 Tundras may not have that problem. But like others have said, we run out of payload before we run out of towing rating.

Thanks guys for a great conversation.

 

It sounds like you've researched and calculated pretty well. You're sub payload and sub tow rating, so the truck should do okay. Maybe check the manual under the towing section and see if they have a suggest top speed for towing, as some do. I doubt it'll be lower than your 65 MPH max, and I applaud you for having that limit. So many just want to run speed limit and don't realize that no truck is designed for that, even if it will do it. Your caution and research is shockingly refreshing. Just go look at the towing section and you'll see why.

Sub payload and tow rating, not exceeding 65 MPH, running a proper WDH.... You're doing it right. Now, it may not be the most fun tow experience at the upper end of the range, but you seem to be well aware of that. The only thing I would suggest you do is get an actual weight on the trailer as you would haul it. Trailers are notorious for underestimating their weights.

 

Sounds like you’re gonna be right at max payload @Paul Moll

I fall in the camp of “rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.”

While you’ll likely be ok, you’d probably have more peace of mind with a ¾ ton gasser.

 

Hi tbrady, that 21RD looks more like the weight I should be looking at. Is that 7000 pound weight with full fresh water and some personal stuff in the trailer? Is that for the Titanium version? and one more question, is there a propane generator option? I have more questions, but for that I really should go to my local Outdoors RV dealer. Thanks for any insight you have on this trailer Feel free to PM me if you are up to further chatting on this trailer.

 

Weight distribution will help for stability as it will move some tongue weight to the front axle as well as to the trailer axles. Unfortunately, this doesn't change the payload hit applied to the truck.

Towing capacities seem to be more about marketing than reality. If you consider a trailer that weighs 11,000 lbs and have a minimum 10% tongue weight and add a 100 lbs for the hitch, you have used up 1,200 lbs. Now you need to add the 80 lbs for your skid plates, and 70 lbs (in my case) for your tonneau cover and 50 lbs for my rack, There is nothing left for the passengers! The truck has to drive itself

 

Thanks for the replies guys. Yea, I'm really hoping to drop the total trailer weight closer to the 7000 pounds that @tbrady has.

I have found trailers that are lower in weight, but they compromise on lot's of things like insulation and fresh/gray/black water tanks. I came from a 2013 Honda Ridgeline with tow rating of 5000 pounds, so the 11,000 of the Tundra seemed like "enough" increase to do this just fine. Didn't expect to run into a limit on the Tundra so quickly

 

As others have mentioned U need to know Ur trailer’s hitch weight and what Ur As Built Payload lbs are when considering whether a trailer is a good fit. The manufacturers stated Payload Lbs means nothing and cannot be relied on. Even Ur As Built Payload lbs is not great because it’s estimate is based upon a person weighting 150 lbs! Good Luck and Safe Towing. The Tundra is a light duty half ton pickup with limited Payload lbs. Treat is correctly and it will be a great, safe TV for a light duty half ton.

 

Paul, I had a 2019 Ridgeline before the Tundra and we actually had a higher payload in that car/truck than in the Tundra. We were expecting a higher payload with the Tundra. Fortunately for us, our trailer is on the lighter side so not really an issue for us even with all the stuff we bring along.

 

@PBNB yes, I see that too. Wow, how did our half ton Tundras end up with such lame payload? Is Toyota really under rating it or is there something about it that is holding payload rating back?

 

If you look in the manuals, since the last generation they state that the vehicle's primary purpose is as a passenger conveyance. They are not trying to compete with the big 3 as work tools. They have no interest.

 

I am not too sure what the weakest link is in the payload puzzle. I know that they factor all sorts things like frame, brakes, suspension, tires and wheels to name a few. If you compare the Tundra to something like a Ridgeline, you can easily see the massive differences in the Tundra that should give a higher capacity. It is hard to understand why our payload numbers are so low.

I think the 1794 model with the Hybrid is closer to 1,200 lbs.

I put some rather heavy duty tires on the truck that have a max rating of ~3,700 lbs each. I am sure that those are better than the near bald Michelins that came with the truck but I am still stuck with a payload of 1,390 lbs!

Perhaps Toyota has a rather large safety factor in this payload calculation.

 

Godzilla, this is what sold me on the Tundra!

 

Here's a big part of it. Keep in mind, most tundras will not be at the lower end of the scale.

 

Marketing = Lying as legally as possible

As a general rule I assume that anything advertised for a vehicle is about 33% pure bullshit. It helps me avoid disappointment, and has let to some pleasant surprises as well.

 

If your camping at places that have water available, I would wait until your at the destination and fill up there. It will save you a bunch of weight and sloshing around that is no fun at all.

Unless you are really boondocking it, most campgrounds offer water service, and it’s the way to go. We drain ours if we are moving from campground to campground also, and hit every dump station you can. All of that weight you can shed is worth it.

Obviously this isn’t always possible, but we do it every chance we can.

 

Godzilla, It looks like the heavily optioned Ridgeline does not get the same payload hit since there are only a few configurations. There seems to be 100's of configurations for the Tundra. So if you are running an SR without a sunroof, your payload could be closer to 1,900 lbs.

The marketing department seems to have missed the part in the shinny brochure! The picture shows a well equipped higher trim that has all those towing gizmos. Probably over on payload in the photo and the AVS is cranked up to try and level the truck.

 

That truck may well be within limits in the ad, but they have nothing but the smallest driver they could find in it, the trailer is a stripped down base model, has no propane and no batteries, and dual axles to hold more of the load.

Like I said, marketing is lying legally.

 

Always read the fine print!!!

 

Hi Paul - two thoughts.

1. I would trust your gut. I don’t think the Tundra has anything that would make it different compared to other trucks that would make up for this line of thinking.
2. You calculated you weight of water but have you considered the weight of batteries and full propane tanks? I would be surprised if the fry weight of your trailer includes those items. As other have already mentioned, the dry weight from the manufacturer might not be accurate.

 

Paul,

ORV includes the batteries and propane tanks in the dry weight, but not the propane. They typically use 2 30lb tanks so full propane would be 60lbs.

Tom

 

Do you know if the quoted 899 tongue weight is with the gen set installed? If not, it’s about 150 more with it.

 

Heavier tires reduce your payload. And while stiffer side walls will help with stability, their rating of 3700lbs ea x 4 at 14800lbs is way past anything your truck will ever see. Double edged sword that needs to be accounted for.

 

When I last looked it up, the Ridgeline is rated for 1500 lb payload, but only 1000 lb of that can go into the bed. Remember it has a little trunk under the bed. It can not handle heavy weight on that bed surface.

As an aside, this is what is so frustrating about the half ton market. Consumers demand that their full size truck come comfortable and packed full of features. It’s not a utility-driven market; it’s driven by appearance, status, and comfort/luxury. Ford and GM build crew cab 4x4 half tons with over a ton of available payload. Toyota just seems completely uninterested in doing that for us.

I love how Sweers says, “we at Toyota refuse to play the numbers game, unlike our competitors.” Well, what do you call rating the truck to tow a number that its payload can’t possibly handle?!

 

That's a nice trailer and the fresh water capacity is crazy. Unfortunately, the grey water is only 50. My 22' Grand Design is opposite with fresh water of only 50 but grey water of about 80. And you'll create much more grey water than black water. That means you can go longer without needing to dump your tanks when hooked to water. Something to think about maybe.

Also, everyone is different but we never travel with more than about 10 gals of fresh water since almost all campsites have water, unless you are boondocking. Then you should still probably be able to find water near your destination?

 

Of all the travel trailers I have ever had ( 4) from 22'-26', I never got the 10% tongue weight, most of the time it was closer to 15% tongue weight.
Adding up all the weight numbers don't always works.
How do you know for sure? Load your trailer to about 90% load and get a tongue weight scale, 0-1500 lbs.
My last trailer, was a 26' a Nash with a large slide, had a tongue weight was 1,300 lbs at 50% load.
Did not fill good on the road. And yes I had a 1500lbs equalizer hitch set up.

 

We plan to do some boondocking but traveling with little water makes sense no matter how you cut it. I imagine that we could get water near our destination. Kind of frustrated by this discovery now. Was really hoping the Tundra would be good enough for a good range of trailers.

Our Tundra is 1794 TRD CrewMax, wonder if adding air shocks to the rear would help out the payload even if Toyota doesn't actually say that. Just a thought.

 

I pull a very similar travel trailer - minus the tip out but with the extra insulation and same basic layout - with my tundra and sequoia, both of which have the ‘outmoded’ 5.7L. Zero problems. I use an Andersen hitch (which is very light, but IMO, very effective as well) and find it to be very comfortable and planted at highway speeds. The tundra is always loaded down with a cap and stuff in the bed. The sequoia is bone stock. Neither make me think I need more truck.

People will ..weigh.. in on how much your trailer is going to weigh with all the excess crap they assume you are going to put in your truck and trailer and rooftop cargo and hitch mounted tray for Home Depot bins that you are definitely going to load to the max… but nobody knows what your trailer will weigh until you weigh it on a scale. So ignore them. Go by the numbers - which you have done. Assumptions that your will be way over weight are no more accurate than assumptions that you will be way under weight - they are both assumptions. Ask the dealer to weigh the trailer empty and get an actual tongue weight if you are that concerned about it, then start from there. There are plenty of tundras owners towing that size and weight trailer while legitimately staying within both payload and GCVW.

In my opinion, you should be just fine.

 

Pulled my 34’ TT fully loaded at about 9k no problem. Used a WDH with sway bars. The truck had 35’s with Westcott 3/1 collar lift. Since then I’ve added Icon stage 6 and haven’t pulled my TT yet. My rear is pretty soft now so I’ve ordered some airlift bags for the rear just incase. I’f you worried about the tongue weight being so close just get some airlift loadlifter 5000 ultimate bags and call it a day.

 

These are also good inputs.

One thing that confuses me: OK, so the Tundra payload sticker says 1300 pounds (in my case). That means I'm good to put 1100 pounds in the bed and me as a 200 pound driver. That 1100 pounds is almost all on the rear axle. Really all on the rear axle when you consider the bed location over the rear axle. But then with a WDH moving I'll guess 300 pounds is transferred to the front axle (with a 900 pound trailer tongue load). Just guessing a third of the tongue weight gets transferred to front with a WDH. Why then don't I get a bonus 300 pounds back to the total payload? Or is Toyota saying that the front axle can have no additional load beyond what passengers have...distributed front and back.
Just wondering

 

But wait...I just now built my exact 1794 TRD on the Toyota website and downloaded the details. It says "Maximum payload" is 1665 pounds. There is an footnote which reads "Payload includes the weight of occupants, cargo and options and is limited by weight distribution". That's essentially the same language as the sticker on the vehicle.

So what gives Toyota? Why does the actual vehicle sticker say 1300 pound???

I think the payload reduction is due to the tires. My 1794 TRD has Wildpeak at3w-a tires with max load 2469 pounds at 51psi. The truck sticker says to run the tires at 35psi which surely degrades the tire capacity. Plus, the Wildpeak atw3 (more real offroad and standard on SR5 and Limited TRD I think) have a max load of 3750 pounds at 80psi. Granted 80 is a lot higher than 51 on the at3-a, but I'm guessing the load capability at 35psi drops and forces the truck max payload down to 1300 from 1665. Comments welcome