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Supercharged my 2019 Toyota Tundra Platinum

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by BoWat, Apr 28, 2021.

  1. May 3, 2021 at 3:50 AM
    #31
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas New Member

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    Probably been posted before, pardon if so,

    From Harrop:

    Calibration of Toyota 3UR-FE Engine ECU for Harrop Supercharged engines

    Tuning of Supercharged Engines is always recommended to achieve safe and predictable performance targets. Recently, manufacturers have begun increasing security around the OEM ECU, limiting accessibility and therefore tunability of modified engines.

    As there is high demand for modifications on 3UR-FE powered Vehicles, Harrop Engineering have undertaken both Dyno and road testing on their own development Vehicle – a 2018 Toyota Tundra 3UR-FE.

    When assessing the vehicle software for suitability with mechanical modifications, we looked primarily at Ignition, fuelling, load calculation and torque output. From looking at multiple similar stock calibrations we were able to reasonably assess the upper limit of the existing tuning maps.

    After installing the Harrop 2650 Tundra Stage 1 Supercharger kit, Harrop were able to make a number of assessments based on comparative ignition timing, fuel enrichment, engine loads, and torque output. Logged data, in combination with access to earlier 3UR-FE calibrations allows for some reasonable assumptions.

    Ignition:

    The factory maps are very conservative on ignition timing. In Australia fuels vary from 91 through 95 and 98 RON. The Harrop test vehicle was delivered on 91 RON fuel, and logs showed the vehicle to be running on the knock sensors. i.e. the stock ECU was retarding ignition timing due to knock on 91 RON fuel. ‘Knock Ears’ were used to confirm the effectiveness of the knock control and sensitivity.

    With the Supercharger installed running on 98 RON fuel, similar low-level knock retard was evident, in general no more than 2-3 degrees of knock retard was recorded. Audible knock at the knock ears was no greater than experienced using 91 RON stock. Knock was only audible with knock ears; no knock was audible in the cabin as per manufacture.

    Assessing knock sensitivity is a common tuning requirement due to mechanical modifications that impact engine noise. Noisier mechanical components can result in false knock detection and low power output. Fortunately, the Toyota knock strategy proved to be very robust and well dialled in. Like many OE calibrations the Toyota spark strategy starts from being retarded, in this case 3 degrees, and adapt up or down from there. If we take an example from our logs and spark tables and compare them to other accessible 3UR-FE calibrations, our run spark is actually only 2-3 degrees lower than the commanded spark table at loads above 60%. This is on par with the stock vehicle and low(standard) octane fuel.

    Fuelling:

    In regards to fuelling the 3UR-FE are MAF (Mass Air Flow) based, so boost pressure is not a factor for the ECU. The limiting factors are MAF flow and any ECU limits relating to flow. The stock mapping extends to load of 110%. Observed peak load supercharged is 140%, therefore it is important to know what is going to happen when you go “off the map”.

    The additional airflow proved to be of no concern to the ECU, peak airflow of 450 g/s was measured with the supercharged unit.

    Testing at higher boost did reveal limits, both an ECU 512 g/s calculation limit and the MAF voltage ceiling. In addition, at higher flow levels the standard injectors do not have sufficient flow.


    Torque output and engine load:

    The output torque is clearly higher, the concern around output torque is that it is calculated correctly. The relative torque output calculation is important for transmission shift quality and torque reduction. Harrop are able to log airflow and load calculations on their Hub Dyno. By retaining the stock MAF and therefore stock airflow reading, the transmission will see the relative torque increase and apply the required pressure and torque reduction changes.

    To summarize, Harrop recognise a tuned option would be best. Where one does not exist, Harrop opted to test the operation of the stock tune with the Supercharger and are content that the modest boost upgrade of the Stage 1 kit works within the limits of the factory tune. The parameters of the stock tune extend satisfactorily to within the increased airflow of the upgrade as is evident by timing and knock control when combined with 98RON (93 AKI) fuel, component enrichment protection, increased shift torque reduction and the absence of modification induced MIL light from increased air flow.

    Very recently, tuning has become available on some 3UR-FE ECUs so further analysis of higher output and the respective limits became possible. The results were that re-calibration of 3UR-FE Vehicles was not advantageous for the Stage 1 kit (Ø85mm pulley), as long as the Harrop Supercharger kit is Installed as supplied, completely and without further modifications.



    So maximum airflow was set at 450 g/s by selecting the Ø85 Supercharger pulley. To provide a further factor of safety, the Harrop Supercharger kit includes a high-volume Fuel Pump and Fuel pressure Regulator modification. Higher outputs beyond the Harrop Stage 1 kit will require tune scaling, larger MAF pipes and supporting fuel hardware.

    The mixture commanded in the stock tune is very rich under load for catalyst and component protection, something most tuners would lean out for greater gains. The Harrop fuel system upgrades in no way alter the normal overheating protections. These fuelling protections are modelled in the ECU and are based on airflow, not boost as no MAP sensor is present in the OE manifold by design. The advantage here is that the protections will be available at the same rate of air flow as stock, no “performance tuning” means engine longevity is less compromised as the aftermarket tuner will generally lower or remove the factory protections in favour of Power. The modifications made to the fuel system also ensure the ECU hits is commanded target fuel, and logged fuel trims are +/- 10%.


    Torque output and engine load:

    The output torque is clearly higher, the concern around output torque is that it is calculated correctly. The relative torque output calculation is important for transmission shift quality and torque reduction. Harrop are able to log airflow and load calculations on their Hub Dyno. By retaining the stock MAF and therefore stock airflow reading, the transmission will see the relative torque increase and apply the required pressure and torque reduction changes.

    To summarize, Harrop recognise a tuned option would be best. Where one does not exist, Harrop opted to test the operation of the stock tune with the Supercharger and are content that the modest boost upgrade of the Stage 1 kit works within the limits of the factory tune. The parameters of the stock tune extend satisfactorily to within the increased airflow of the upgrade as is evident by timing and knock control when combined with 98RON (93 AKI) fuel, component enrichment protection, increased shift torque reduction and the absence of modification induced MIL light from increased air flow.

    Very recently, tuning has become available on some 3UR-FE ECUs so further analysis of higher output and the respective limits became possible. The results were that re-calibration of 3UR-FE Vehicles was not advantageous for the Stage 1 kit (Ø85mm pulley), as long as the Harrop Supercharger kit is Installed as supplied, completely and without further modifications.

    190808_Toyota_3UR-FE_V8_Tech_Guide
     
    406Michael likes this.
  2. May 3, 2021 at 3:54 AM
    #32
    nodak67

    nodak67 New Member

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    wondering why you started a new exact named thread? why couldnt you continue your other thread.
     
  3. May 3, 2021 at 4:55 AM
    #33
    jewild

    jewild New Member

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    3/1 level" Real lift, 20" fuel wheels on 31"tires
    At 7K, just for the SC, plus price of the install and software.
    You have to get alot more miles per gallon to pay for that thing.
    and as easy as pics are on cell phones lets see the installed pic and some stats on the cluster
     
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  4. May 3, 2021 at 5:15 AM
    #34
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas New Member

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    MPG justification has no business in a S/C discussion.

    one has nothing to do with the other.

    Inverse relationship at best.

    however, if you soft peddle it you can maximize the added volumetric efficiency. Theoretically.

    but what grown ass man soft peddles a S/C?
     
  5. May 3, 2021 at 6:40 AM
    #35
    Marshal

    Marshal Newd Member

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    So, what you're saying is getting a supercharger will save me money in the long run with the better mpg...:spending:
     
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  6. May 3, 2021 at 6:48 AM
    #36
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    So, what is his break even point?
     
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  7. May 3, 2021 at 6:54 AM
    #37
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    This sounds like a riddle of the ancients.....is the answer a light footed man?
     
  8. May 3, 2021 at 7:03 AM
    #38
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas New Member

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    ah..the conundrum.

    light footed men don't opt for forced induction.
     
  9. May 3, 2021 at 7:32 AM
    #39
    DCGymRat303

    DCGymRat303 Psalms 91

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    That right there...
     
  10. May 3, 2021 at 7:06 PM
    #40
    BoWat

    BoWat [OP] New Member

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    I'm a rookie at this stuff. :der: Did not notice post reply :( Will figure how to get pictures uploaded. Then try to find out if I can combine the two threads into one.
     
  11. May 3, 2021 at 7:44 PM
    #41
    BoWat

    BoWat [OP] New Member

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    I posted two threads with the same title, I didn't know how to reply. :sorry: Got it now.
     
  12. May 4, 2021 at 5:20 AM
    #42
    nodak67

    nodak67 New Member

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    probably have to ask an mod/admin to merge the threads.
     
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  13. May 4, 2021 at 5:21 AM
    #43
    ninjajay

    ninjajay Posting from the toilet

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    doesn’t the Maggie have a bypass before about 2500rpm anyway?
     
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  14. May 4, 2021 at 5:32 AM
    #44
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas New Member

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    I think it does have a bypass...I don't think it is RPM engaged. it is vacuum engaged.

    however...the air still flows thru the intercooler. remember, the Harrop has a larger intercooler.

    so sending cooler air into the engine under low loads, as the bypass is engaged, "could" help.

    I'm guessing cruising at hwy speed, the bypass will open.

    once I get my unit installed, I'll do a nerdy write up.
     
  15. May 4, 2021 at 6:53 AM
    #45
    Nowhereman

    Nowhereman New Member

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    I don't think that has anything to do with it.
    He said after X amount of miles he refueled with X amount of gas. This was done going to and coming back from the same roads so a good mechanical average was achieved.
    Has nothing to do about battery disconnect.
     
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  16. May 4, 2021 at 6:58 AM
    #46
    Nowhereman

    Nowhereman New Member

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    Me thinks with enough of these pumps getting out to the public and having them EPA certified the price should come down a little.
    Even Toyota itself offered this forced induction option at one point so you know it's a good thing for the 5.7 engine.
    It's on my list of things to check off for next year on my 2021.
     
  17. May 4, 2021 at 7:01 AM
    #47
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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  18. May 4, 2021 at 7:20 AM
    #48
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    You are all that is man. Spoken like a true Texan.

    Ever consider that people want more efficiency, power, towing ability, or just want one?
     
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  19. May 4, 2021 at 7:49 AM
    #49
    Oats87

    Oats87 Pumpkin Rider

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    I have a Magnuson S/C installed on my 2019 Tundra as well, with the Magnuson-provided VF tune. The supercharger is great, but don't be fooled into thinking adding a supercharger is going to increase your fuel economy. I have ~3500 miles on my supercharger at this point. Mine has been consistently 1.5-2 mpg under where I was before the supercharger, and I have tracked every single fill up since the truck had 10 mile on it using Fuelly. I do primarily highway driving between 75-85 MPH (depending on where I am and how far ahead I can look for CHPs )

    There is no way that you are going to get better MPG than without the supercharger, unless you keep your engine RPMs under 2500 (i.e. never give it gas). The ECU runs in "stoich"-target (closed loop) mode at low RPM/low load/low throttle, and inherently, any time the supercharger is adding air, it will need to inject more fuel. Not to mention when you switch to open loop mode, the tune will run the truck extremely rich, and your high flow injectors and high flow fuel pump guarantee you'll use more fuel.

    The Magnuson/TRD superchargers do have a bypass, but the bypass is vacuum actuated rather than being directly RPM actuated. This means that it's more dependent on throttle plate position than it would be on RPM (although of course, the amount of boost the s/c makes is dependent on RPM because it's driven by the crank...), and thus, you can "make boost" from basically idle all the way up to redline if you punch it. If you have a supercharger, you'll experience this if you punch it from low speed (20 mph) or so, although you'll probably just light your rear tires on fire instead lol. Note that the bypass defaults to "closed" i.e. the supercharger making boost, and idle manifold vacuum is what causes it to "open" the bypass. Thus, when you're on the highway, throttle input generally may partially engage the supercharger as the bypass is just a butterfly valve.
     
  20. May 4, 2021 at 11:40 AM
    #50
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Haha. Yes! Is that with or without a Tonneau?

    Toyota also stopped supporting it as a factory/dealer install.

    It was a dirty trick question since some of the information needed is not presented. We could make assumptions about the numbers needed but I wouldn't base it off of a sample size of two trips.

    Personally I don't think OP will get improved MPGs in the long run but it is possible he drives the truck perfectly and lives in ideal conditions to maximize the blower's MPG impact. It is also possible fuel prices go up more than they have to date which will favor the blower slightly
     
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  21. May 5, 2021 at 12:37 PM
    #51
    Vector W8

    Vector W8 Old guy with a lot of expensive habits.

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    Supercharged my FFV back in 2015. 550hp does not = better fuel mileage than naturally asperated 381hp. You dont make HP without extra fuel. I have averaged between 9 and 14.7 mpg for 6 years. That is all she gets.
     
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  22. May 5, 2021 at 12:54 PM
    #52
    Stumparius

    Stumparius New Member

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    I am supposed to get my 18 Limited back tomorrow. I would take 8 MPG to get her back. I am like a kid before Christmas. Waited 2 years to save the cash and I dropped her off almost a month ago (having some other work done as well). So the big question is if I am paying for 93 Octane and I am gonna lose 15% on fuel economy is she gonna be FAST! If the answer is yes.. then it is worth every penny to me!
     
  23. May 5, 2021 at 1:34 PM
    #53
    Oats87

    Oats87 Pumpkin Rider

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    Yes, the truck will be fast (almost stupidly fast). Be careful not to get too complacent with how quick the thing is, being you're so high off the ground, it's easy to not realize how quick you are going...
     
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  24. May 5, 2021 at 1:42 PM
    #54
    BoWat

    BoWat [OP] New Member

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    Just figured how to put a photo of my truck in as my avatar. I am enjoying my supercharger. I like knowing that when you need the power, it's there. As far as mpg goes, I'm letting it go. Anyone purchasing a Tundra is certainly not purchasing it for the mpg :rolleyes:. I like that it's reliable, dependable, and holds its value.
     
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  25. May 5, 2021 at 2:49 PM
    #55
    Stumparius

    Stumparius New Member

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    Exactly BoWat!
     
  26. May 5, 2021 at 3:11 PM
    #56
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Got RF/Microwave? CALIT4U

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    Ideally, we would need a group buy of 50,000.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  27. May 5, 2021 at 3:16 PM
    #57
    Stumparius

    Stumparius New Member

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    I hope they get it certified for the 21 by next year.. have they got the 20 done yet? Took them 2 years to get my 18 certified- why I am just getting it done now.

    Sad thing is price won’t go down because the V8’s are going away and all of the smaller displacement engines are getting turbocharged or supercharged by the manufacturers.
     
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  28. May 5, 2021 at 4:37 PM
    #58
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Got RF/Microwave? CALIT4U

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    The good news is that the 5.7L is a strong motor that lasts awhile. Yes, the 5.7L has its idiosyncrasies but who knows. Dino gas isn't going away anytime soon contrary to what you read about. If the SC folks can get total install to 5 or 6K then..............yeah, I hear laughter in the background.....hey, who knows? Ha!
     
  29. May 10, 2021 at 6:04 PM
    #59
    jptshadow

    jptshadow New Member

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    Anyone know where to get the Magnuson installed in Houston area? Really interested in this setup.
     
  30. May 10, 2021 at 6:04 PM
    #60
    Oats87

    Oats87 Pumpkin Rider

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    I'd reach out to Prospeed.
     
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