Steering Wheel Shimmy, New Moog LCA's and New SPC/Mevotech Camber/Caster Bolts

Well here’s the update. When I put a different set of tires on, the shimmy completely went away; at all speeds. So now I know the problem has something to do with the tires/rims/balance. The crappy part is, I’ve taken them in to get the balance checked. The shop said they were good. So I now have an appointment on Monday with the shop who put the tires on. Hopefully I can get some answers.

So here’s the story on my tires. I got new Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT’s put on last April. 275/65/20’s. Also had an alignment done at the same time. The tire shop said they couldn’t balance them with the weights, so they recommended the beads. $15 per tire. They covered the cost because it took so long. These are the first beads I’ve had. I noticed the other day that at least one of my tires has weights and beads. Not sure if that’s supposed to be like that or not. Obviously something is wrong with something.

 

I would have them spin the tires 180 degrees on the rims

 

Take it to a different shop or have a more experienced person at the shop do it. Might have to go during the week to get that. No reason you cant get a regular AT tire to balance with weights.

Beads are for semi tires, bias plies, and big mud tires that are hard to balance. You can feel the inbalance at slow speeds when the beads arent spinning fast enough to work. At higher speeds they are supposed to balance fairly smooth.

 

Hmmm...never thought about that. You think that could change things?

 

Yeah. That's what they told me when they sold them to me. Told me I'd never have any balance issues since they actively balance. Since then I've heard a couple experienced guys say they don't like the beads. I'm at the shop right now. We'll see if they can figure it out. Maybe simply taking the weights off will fix the problem.

 

Most definitely. Any time I have issues Like that, that’s the first thing I have them do. Most of the time, it fixes the problem. Most experienced tire techs already know this. Hope it helps you

 

@Landodnal, @Half Assed, @blackoutt, and others, I'm very new into this forum, and in fact joined after getting serious about swapping in a 2010 Sequoia transfer case (AWD) into my 2007 Tundra, the transfer case should arrive today. The community has been a tremendous help and I appreciate it very much, especially @Wynnded. Hopefully I'm navigating this properly with tagging, I've never done forums, much less any form of social media. Closest I've come is joining FaceBook about fifteen years ago and after two weeks, I realized I had plenty of life on my own without minding the lives of others on that platform.

I'll try to keep it brief, but I have had my experiences relating specifically with this thread. I have a 2007 Tundra DCLB, bought it in '08 with 4,200 miles. Today it is at 334,000 miles, running and driving like the day I bought it. It faithfully pulls our 34' fifthwheel, romps on the dunes of Silver Lake, Michigan nearly every year and deals with my reluctance to follow tail lights.

Back to the thread. I had to cut out three of the four cam bolts due to rust seizing about two years ago. This started after the truck was about five years old as a Toyota tech advised me of the difficulty he had to do an alignment after installing the Bilstein lift, new rims and Nittos. about three or four years ago, I kept noticing a popping noise in the front end when I would turn the wheel to make a sharp turn into a parking spot. The short of it is that I had a bent cam tab (probably from the sand dunes) as noted in pics by Landodnal and the LCA was shifting within the slop between the tabs and cam. By the time I got to fixing it, it had worn a rut on the inside of the frame pocket that I had to weld up and grind back flush. I too replaced the LCAs with Moog, the cam bolts with SPC.

So four things I want to speak to briefly:

1. The Moog LCAs seem to be an exact replica of the OEM. They are made it Taiwan, which I am fine with, and seem to be of good quality. They are, however, NOT GREASED!! I found this out about four months ago when they started squeaking. About two weeks ago, I replaced just the lower ball joints with 3Fives from Japan. Note that they required grease as well, prior to install. If you've already installed these LCAs, I implore you to drop the lower ball joint, drop out the tapered stud and add the proper grease. Last note, the ball joint on one side of the Moog LCA was extremely difficult to remove and literally exploded out of the pocket when it came out. The new joint SLIPPED right in, which makes me think the pocket was oversized and the original joint was glued or LocTited in. A knurl on the OD of the replacement provided a nice, tight fit.

2. The SPC cam bolts have done just fine and have gone through two alignments at the dealership with no issue. I think everyone knows that they are greaseable to offset moisture to prevent rust seizing and after two years, there is zero rust on them. Problem solved.

3. Blackoutt mentions welding the gussets, and "why not?". I couldn't agree with you more. I straightened the bent tab on mine and tweaked them all in a bit to where they were quite snug on the cams. I then put a MIG weld behind every one of them for support, the weld pulling the tabs back ever so slightly as they cooled leaving a nice fit for the cams. We put a lift on my son's 2016 Tundra, replacing the LCAs and we welded his tabs too and installed SPC cam bolts. The factory tabs are weak, but a good weld bead greatly strengthens them. Blackoutt also slates that he is an OEM snob, and I am whole heartedly one too. I get nearly all of my parts from Joseph Toyota of Colrain, OH online with a discount that always is comparable in price to CRAP from the stores, with OEM fit and quality.

4. Landodnal, I believe you have an '08 and it may be that the noise you are hearing is the front differential. The '07 and '08 Tundras have a known issue that was remedied somewhere in '08. It is a cyclic growling noise that goes away in 4WD. I discovered this just before my warranty ran out- 50K miles, and at the time, it was an obscure issue that little was known about. The dealership followed the TSB and resolved the problem for better than 200,00 miles, but it came back. I swapped out the diff two weeks ago for one from a 2010 and the problem is resolved. Another resolution is to get a kit from East Coast Gear Supply (I believe I have the name right) that replaces the needle roller bearing on the short tube side of the diff with a bushing. Had I learned of this prior to purchasing the 2010 diff, I would have gone this route. If you haven't addressed this issue in your '08, I'd put good money on it that this is the issue.

I'll check back in on this thread, but I've got to get to work for now. I hope to have helped someone and I welcome any questions or comments.

 

So I took the truck to the tire shop yesterday. I showed them the video of my steering wheel with the shimmy and then showed them the video of my buddies tires on my truck with no shimmy in the steering wheel. They were pretty understanding that yes, it's probably the tires. They ended up taking the tires off and removing the beads. They then were able to balance the tires with weights this time. I must have gotten someone more experienced this time or just someone less lazy. They said there could maybe be some slight cupping, but nothing to cause the issue. The best part, they did everything free of charge. So part of me wants to be mad at them for not balancing them correctly the first time, but they are always so nice to me when I go in there and they have done things for free in the past. I guess mistakes will sometimes be made. As long as they make them right, I'm ok with it.

So now for the drive. The shimmy in the steering wheel is definitely better, if not completely fixed. As I got on the highway and up to 70 mph, everything seemed nice and tight which definitely was not the case before. When I got off the exit then got back on headed the other way, I maaaayy have felt some slight vibration at one point, but that could have been the road or something to do with the 5 inches of snow we got or who knows what. So, I'm scheduled for the final (hopefully) alignment on Thursday. I also may take my tires to a shop in the next town over and get my tires balanced again. They have a Road Force wheel balancer. The original shop does not. I might as well get the best balance I can if I'm gonna have these tires on for the next 3 years or so. I will post up the final video of my steering wheel after all this is done. Thank you to everyone who has read through this forum and offered up help where they could.

 

This one is easy to test, drive truck on smooth pavement slowly (10-30mph) in 2wd. If you have front diff needle bearing wear, it'll almost sound like a bad front wheel bearing low rotational vibration. No steering wheel vibration though so maybe not OP's issue. Then click it into 4wd (going straight on dry pavement) and the noise will disappear. The fix is replacing the needle bearing with a sleeve bushing, ECGS is best they will sell you OEM axle seal and install tools as well, Nitro does offer a similar bushing too. I did this on my 07 15-20k miles ago when I got it and no low humming in 2wd anymore.

 

Hi Tundra Steve. Thank you for the thorough response. Your tags worked just fine. Does your truck have the 4.7 or 5.7 L? I think it's awesome that you have 334,000 miles on it. My goal is to drive mine that long if I can. I love these trucks. I'd love to see a list of all the things you've had to do to your truck in that 334,000 mile journey and roughly at what mileage you had to do them.

As for your first point, I totally agree with you. The Moog LCA's seem to be very high quality parts. So far, I haven't heard any squeaks from my ball joints. I'll make sure to keep an ear out for them over the coming months/years.

Your second point. My SPC bolts are not greasable. The only greasable cam bolts for the Tundra that I know of are the Moog cam bolts. Is it possible you have the Moogs? So far, the SPC bolts are working great.

Third. I tried bending my tabs back so I could just put a weld behind them like you did. But I just could not get a hammer or pliers into the right spots to get them bent back. It was a huge pain. So I just cut them off and replaced them. Good on you for accomplishing what I could not. Like you said, why not weld them BEFORE they bend or break.

Fourth point. I think you may be psychic. The main problem I have been having in this thread is a shimmy/vibration in my steering wheel while driving at 60 mph. There was no noise associated with the shimmy. Luckily, taking the beads out of the tires has hopefully fixed the issue. BUT, the noise you described in your fourth point is something that I think my truck is having. As I speed up, I get a cyclic hum. Around 15 mph it happens about once every second: like huummm...huummm...huummm. As I get faster, it slowly speeds up: like huum..huum..huum. Then it gets to: hum, hum, hum. And finally, it goes away as I get up to 50 mph and above. If I put it in 4wd, the hum goes away. When it's really cold outside, the hum seems to be worse. During the summer, it actually seemed to be almost unnoticable. So, maybe I do have an issue with my front differential. So you're saying it might be a bearing on the short tube side? Can you explain in more detail what might be going on with the hum noise? Again, you may be psychic because I have never mentioned this on this forum Thanks again for your response.

 

Sup Blackoutt. If you look above at my response to Tundra Steve, it looks like I may be having this issue. If you don't mind me asking, how expensive was this fix and was it hard to do? Any good write ups that you know about?

 

Looks like currently $60 for the bushing, $45 for the removal tool (I would say required), and $22 for the OEM axle seal for one stop shop order but might be able to get it a few $ cheaper online somewhere else. This does not include install tools, I used some sockets, be creative. Given the amount of work you've accomplished so far this should be an easy one for you. I jacked the left side of the truck up pretty high so I didn't loose enough oil to require a top off.

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-1...amshell-bushingeliminates-needle-bearing.html

Here's a link to the issue
https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/files/PDF Files/tsb-0121-08-t9r-front-diff-growl.pdf

And ECGS install video on Toyota 8" but similar to our 9" front.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiasSTuDfPA

 

I just finished watching this video. lol. Thank you. Seems like it shouldn't be too difficult. I changed out my passenger CV axle last year, so I have a general idea what needs to be done. Getting the old seal out seems like it could be a chore. I'll have to get myself a seal puller. Thanks again.

 

@Landodnal, I'm going to have to learn how to quote portions of a post. I do have the 5.7l and the closest thing to breaking into the engine for a major repair was replacing the switching valve for the air injection pumps: removing the intake. Wasn't a bad job at all, about five or six hours and I replaced the radiator (with a Denso), water pump, radiator hoses, belt tensioner, belt idler and belt, and with exception to an expiring radiator, all other parts were replaced out of good measure. I only use Castrol full synthetic with one quart of Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer every 7,500 miles. IF, and I mean IF, you ever start using Lucas, DO NOT STOP using it. I started adding it around 100K and thought I'd leave it out on an oil change around 225K. Within a week, it developed a serious rear main oil leak, and as I started getting my thoughts together on replacing the seal, I had nightmares every night. It dawned on me to drain off one quart of oil and add the Lucas back in, and don't you know that in a few days, the leak stopped and to this day it is dry as a bone with no mechanical repairs.

I've been through the fiasco of wheel balancing and found a shop here in Lebanon Ohio that does a PERFECT job every time. They have Hunter wheel balancing equipment and I always spec Road Force balancing. The Nittos are excellent tires for balancing as well- the shop made note that one tire on my last set needed no weights whatsoever and the others were only lightly balanced, and they were perfect. I'm on my fourth set of Nittos now, GREAT tires!

@blackoutt is exactly right on the front diff test and replacing the bearing with the sleeve. I spent $480 on the replacement diff and a lot more work was involved. I would have done the sleeve if I was aware of it. Hint: when refilling the diff with fluid (use synthetic), snake a cheap vinyl hose from up top around the battery down alongside the engine and slip it into the diff fill hole. Snug fit the hose over the nozzle of the bottle, tape it secure and turn it upside down, nestling it in place somewhere around the battery. Poke a hole in the bottle bottom for an air vent and let it gravity feed to fill the diff. After it drains down, cut the bottom of the bottle off and you now have a funnel that you can throw away when done. It takes a little over two quarts to fill the diff. Leave a drain pan under the diff, once the lube flows out the fill hole, it is full, replace the fill plug, throw the bottle and hose in the trash, done. I always fill the Lucas in the engine oil first, cut the bottom off and use it as a funnel for the remaining oil to be added. Throw it in the trash when done, no cleaning a funnel for every oil change.

I've seen a thread on the "cyclic growling noise" (search that) on this forum site and someone does cover the ECGS replacement sleeve.

It's quite possible that I did use the Moog cam bolt kit, it's been a few years but they definitely were greaseable. The kit and LCAs came from CarID at a good price.

Last, Landodnal, I am certain that you have the front diff problem. You can simplify the process of repair by not tearing down the hub. Liberate the lower ball joint, lower shock mounting bolt, sway bar link and tie rod from the steering knuckle and have someone pulling the knuckle out away from the truck while you pull the drive shaft from the diff. No more tear down is needed and you won't disturb the hub. I advise you get a slide hammer with the proper attachment (finger) for pulling the shaft.

I'll post some other gold nuggets I've gained over the last 330,000 miles. I plan to run this truck well in excess of 500k.

 

bottom right of post "Quote" and trim out whats not needed drop a line or so to make a clean multi quote. Just leave the bracketed meta data and end bracketed quote... I still haven't figured out multi quote function next to it. But this method works also... its just a chore if not on a PC.

 

Good point, I only undid the 2 big lower ball joint bolts, sway bar link, and pulled the shock out for extra room to swing the axle around. I left the tie rod attached and was still able to pop the CV joint out with a big hammer and 2x4 block, then swing the whole knuckle/hub/axle assembly forward and ratchet strap out of the way to access the diff end. I carefully used big flathead to remove old axle seal without scoring the bore, and then ECGS tool to remove the needle bearing.

 

Ok. Final update on the steering wheel shimmy.

In my last update, I explained how the beads in the tires ended up being the problem with the wheel shimmy/vibration. The shop that originally put the tires on and added the beads agreed to remove the beads. I left the shop thinking they did just that. I then took my truck to the dealership to get the final alignment after installing the lower control arms and new camber/caster bolts. The alignment went well. $100 and they seemed to have done a good job. It's not a perfect alignment (numbers-wise) compared to what some guys on the forum says is the best, but it's close and it's driving well. I'll take it.

So my next step was to get a final balance at a local shop that has a Road Force balancer. When I got to the shop for my appointment, it was cut short because the tech said the tires still have beads in them. I told him the other shop said they removed the beads, but he was right. The rears still had beads in them and he could not balance them. So, I called back to the original shop. They set me up an appointment. When I got there, I told the guy at the desk that I thought they had removed all the beads the first time because they had obviously failed. He said they had only removed them from one of the front tires. They never told me that. I told him I don't want one tire with weights and three tires with beads, especially since the beads have proven that they will fail over time. So, they removed the beads from the other three tires, for free, again. I do appreciate that they are admitting they might have caused some of the problem and fixed it for free, but they definitely need to work on their transparency skills. Since all the beads were now out, I took the truck back to the other shop with the Road Force balancer. They got them balanced just fine. He said he didn't detect any defects in the rims or tires.

So now the truck has all 4 tires Road Force balanced with weights and has been aligned at the dealership. Here is the final video of my steering wheel driving at 73 mph. In the video, I touched the wheel for just a second to keep her straight, but the wheel is nice and tight:

https://youtu.be/-Ng2F4LvJRE

The final lessons I've learned after this experience: Don't simply trust the people at a tire/mechanic shop. Do your research. If they say they can't balance your tires with weights, get a second opinion. They are probably just being lazy or maybe their equipment isn't the best.

Thank you to anyone who followed along and offered help where they could. My next project will be tackling that needle bearing replacement in the front differential. I'm tired of hearing the hum, hum, hum.

 

Hard to find a good tire/alignment shop. Glad its finally sorted out and you have a nice new quality ride!

 

The beads are junk on 32 to 35" tires.

 

I am about to put on those same Moog lowers and the ball joints are extremely well greased from factory. Are you saying that I should grease the bushings to keep them from squeaking?

 

Hi ftmyerstundra. I can only give my experience so far. I haven't had any issues with "dry" ball joints or squeaking bushings. These lower control arms and ball joints have worked great so far. I didn't add any extra grease or anything to mine. Hope that helps.

 

I see in post #1 OP shows the Mevotechs being made in the US, and that they are similar to the SPC’s. I bought SPC’s from autozone but noticed they said made in China, bummer. The washers look the same, and both come with the same plastic sleeves. So I’m not sure what changed. Maybe where the bolts are manufactured?

I priced out all new OEM hardware and it was about $200 to complete both sides, so about double what I paid for the SPC kits. Not really sure which route to go, I have more confidence in the OEM parts; so that’s probably what I’ll do.

 

@TundraDude772 , I used Moog 4497438585 from CarID currently for $55.23 each side and they are just fine. They've probably been in there for eight or ten years and we've done two other Tundras with them as well. Mine was the only one that I had to cut out the LCAs due to rust seizure. We live in the rust belt, and I wouldn't use the OEM kit because they would be sure to re-seize just like the originals. The other two Tundras were well on their way to seizing when we swapped them out. Just my opinion.

 

Good looking out, those look like they’ll handle the higher torque specs better than the plastic bushings on the SPC. I just ordered a set of 2 from Amazon, I’ll compare them to the SPC’s I have and post some pics.

Luckily I’m nowhere near the rust belt, but I’ll take every advantage I can get when it comes to rust prevention.