Sound and performance of K&N intake?

I've always believed in a "balanced" - Intake/Exhaust upgrade to give a little help to how air is going in and out of the engine, but the expectation of gains was never high. I have use K&N open element filters on many different vehicles including my 02' & 06' tundras with no issues. I have the cleaning kit and always was patient when re-oiling to make sure not to over oil. For long-term use, that is really the only factor that matters when having an open element. Do it right and you'll benefit from whatever gains are available and you shouldn't see any cons unless you use the truck as a submarine, in which case you're f'd anyway.

My 17' is supercharged and it has an air box with the TRD/K&N oiled filter inside... Maybe the best of both? My AIT is always within 10° total (+/-5°) of ambient air temps and that works.
So
With your 3rd gen TT, maybe under-hood ambient air temps could be higher? And an open element would not be the best choice? If you could monitor AIT before and after the swap that would be a clear indicator.

 

I have posted a test they did on KN filter compared to other OEM and aftermarket filters. It was the worst. It the filter that let in the most dirt. It was also the worst at cfm when dirty. The over oiling is another issue. But in general KN sucks when it come to protecting your engine.

 

For the 5.7. LOL. Love the name they gave it.

 

That’s interesting you say that I’ve done some real world and seen the opposite. More dirt post filter in the upper intake and blower area with the Wix. Less with the Afe dry and K&N oiled. It’s all over the map. But safe to say open air element in the engine bay is no bueno

 

For some reason people think turbos pull on the filter harder than an NA engine even though its the same amount of air being pulled through the filter assuming the power of the two engines is the same. They thing the turbo engine would suck the oil right out of the filter.

I would lean toward S&B if you were going to buy an intake. All of the AFe parts I have ever bought were disappointing. Overpriced and lower quality. I will only buy their stuff if it is absolutely the only option.

The balanced approach is not necessarily a big deal on a turbo motor since the turbos themselves are usually the bottle neck to making more power, both on the exhaust and intake side. My guess is that you could just leave the truck stock, and upgrade the turbos, and make far more power with less effort than a stock turbo truck with every bolt on part you can dream up. There will be virtually zero gains from intakes or exhausts until the trucks are tuned and at the upper limits of the turbo flow capabilities.

 

It was just a test I came across awhile back. Was it real or not, the world may never know. For what a CAI does, which isn't much, it isn't worth the money. If it was worth it AFE and others would be billion dollar companies. I mean look at the Quantum CAI for the 5.7. Who wouldn't want +15HP & +20TQ for the low price of $299.25. I mean you're picking up the same HP/TQ as if you would dyno tune it. AMAZING is all I can say.

 

The power gains on the 5.7 make a little more sense because the CAI's lean the engine out under WOT. I bought the AFe intake for my Lexus GX and actually saw a nearly 10% drop in my MAF readings vs the stock intake, but was seeing higher pressure in the intake manifold. I was not expecting that so I emailed and they straight up told me they mess with the flow across the MAF sensor to trick the PCM into thinking its flowing less air than it is to inject less fuel.

I suspect the 3rd gen wouldnt respond the same way.

 

Lean? That would mean less power though.

 

Accurate info. Any time they mess with the tube diameter, they are changing the amount of air that the MAF sensor meters. Keyboard warriors on the internet all believe a cold air intake is only about the air temp. They don't understand velocity, max flow, along with playing with tube diameters to arrive at a better WOT air/fuel ratio by allowing the MAF sensor to not "see" all the air entering the engine.
I don't believe any company is going to play with A/F ratios on a brand new turbo engine platform, so I would not expect a 3rd gen to see the same gains, unless there is a max flow issue the stock air boxes.

 

Lean is more power, to an extent Just like you can lose by adding to much fuel. Regardless a CAI isn’t going to gain you what they claim. Especially in a stock NA engine.

 

Less air, less fuel to me equals less HP/TQ. Or am missing something?

 

Let all the keyboard warriors now how you are allowing more air into a NA engine. Unless it’s FI you’re not shoving more air than it can suck. After all an engine is a pump. And if the maf is being tricked into “seeing” less flow then the ecm adjust to inject less fuel. Last time I checked HP/TQ is made by fuel and timing through dyno tuning.

 

I think you are confused as to what is being said. Metering less air, but actually ingesting marginally more air due to a less restrictive path. More air + less fuel = leaner, more power than stock A/F ratios.

 

Gotha, better explanation. Was following what you were putting down. Either way a NA isn’t going to gain those numbers.

 

Not if the engine is running insanely rich, which the stock Toyota tunes do.

If you read my post, its not getting less air. Its spoofing the MAF into thinking its getting less air.

The maf sensor is calibrated to the size of the intake tube. If you flow air through a 3" diameter tube a 50mph, its less air than you get flowing through a 4" tube at 50mph. But unless you tell the PCM that the new tube is larger, it has no idea that there is more air mass moving through that larger tube.

Or, to think of it another way, 40 lb/min(whats need to make 400hp) of air will flow through a 3" tube at a higher velocity than a 4" tube. The maf sees the lower velocity of the 4" tube and the PCM thinks less mass is moving through it even though its actually the same.

The UR engines run super rich at WOT which is why they can pick up power running a little leaner. Tuners will lean them out via the actual programming of the PCM but an intake can more or less do the same thing.

 

I now know what you meant. But not those numbers. We all now dynos can be tricked and not all dynos are created equal.

 

I will leave it at this. It a 6k lbs truck not a race car.

 

3UR runs an AFR of 12 or so. Not really that rich. I’ve seen the F150 Ecoboost run 9 AFR. Usually running leaner at WOT will increase the charge temperatures and force timing retard which will decrease torque and power. I’ve never heard of increasing power by leaning out the engine. Power enrichment only really happens at WOT in Toyotas.

 

Long time user of KN filters. I installed the KN filters in January on my 23 Hybrid and noted a small MPG Decrease 1.5 MPG around town. Throttle response was down.

Last night installed the AFE CAI with Dry Filters. Easy install-45 Minutes. Basically Install and go . Quick 20 Mile ride 1st impressions. (Caveat-Just driving feel (Butt Dyno)).

• Throttle response better.
• In normal mode-noted response increase during normal acceleration.
• MPG immediately improved 2 MPG on read-out. (Mixed 20 Mile loop)
• Noise level the same as standard Intakes

Next installing a Dirty Deeds CAT Back system. This will increase flow especially on the road and with it additional MPG gains. I had a Dirty Deeds system on my 22 Tundra TRDOR non-hybrid. Impressive gains-Long summer road trip hit +24MPG running 70-75 MPH with air

 

Yes it is, but it's pretty quick for a brick

 

I just posted in another thread About the k&n open cold air kit so won’t repeat it all. However, it’s so funny & interesting to me how so many people with the exact same truck basically with different mods to them have such different experiences. I initially tried the AFE kit didn’t like it then tried the k&n and love it!! I love the open element and more turbo sound you get. I am not anti AFE or anti anyone/anything just find it amusing how so many people have such different experiences.

 

LOL yeah, I added myself to the waitlist for the S&B air intakes. They look pretty nice with that plastic top part.

 

Thats the one I was wanting but just got tired of waiting so got the only open air kit ready for now…the k&n…..I bet the s&b will be great!

 

The gooey K&N filter oil migrating downstream coating mass air flow sensors skewing them out of spec causing generally P0171 lean fuel trim fault codes, also the filtration media having basically the ability to stop small birds or large bugs from being injested.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3L-E-ufYo&t=804s
I'll just stick with the factory filter.

 

I have ran open air filter cold intake kits on almost every single vehicle I have ever owned over the years (all different name brand kits & probably over 40 plus vehicles in my lifetime) including my current lineup of vehicles 2021 M5 competition/2022 Tundra/69 Bronco/etc/etc (don’t want to sound like I’m boasting cause I’m honestly not but I am fortunate enough to have a lot of vehicles and no not jay leno numbers come on now) and I have never had any issue with any kit name brand causing any error codes or mass air sensor issues or check engine lights etc etc. this is what I meant in another post saying it’s crazy how so many people have different experiences. Don’t know how I could be that lucky over the 35 plus years of driving/ownership (yea I’m old now) and never have an issue. Each vehicle owner has to decide for themselves what they want and for me I love the sound the open air kits give your vehicle. You can find negatives on any product of any kind if you really want to!

 

Agreed, all these ppl make it seem like it's got no filter installed at all lolol

 

It may suck in engine air but don't forget about the turbo intercoolers...
Turbos and supercharger have the same principles of ramming and compression of air. Compression of air and the friction of compressed air will heat up.
So that's why both styles use a intercooler for this alone, so would it be better to pull out side air into the air filters to give the intercooler a better delta T shit yeah I would agree,but these are just street trucks for fun,recreational and daily drivers,so no matter what we say, do,or what ever we do what is our choice at the end of the day,just saying.
I thought this whole web site thingy was for fun and sharing information.

There are usually 4 steps in increasing overall HP for turbos.


1.More air intake. ( Mass Air Sensor or "MAS").
2. Is more involved more like sub categories
A increasing size if turbo
B change the or style of it (there are three)
Variable geometry, scroll and electric.
3.Exhaust
4.Tuning

Just my .02

 

The original question was about performance. If you want performance, these types of intakes are not good. It’s critical to keep IATs low with turbos. It doesn’t matter about the intercooler, modern turbos have a limit for post compressor air temperature dependent on the intake temperature. The hotter the intake temperature, the lower the boost pressure. Lowering the boost pressure helps to keep the compressor outlet temperature limit. Unfortunately, lower boost always means less power and torque. The temperature limit depends on the hardware but usually it’s like 320~360 F. This is so important that some manufacturers have patented their methods for estimating post compressor air temperatures. Here’s one from Cummins: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6401457B1/en
One from Ford: https://patents.google.com/patent/US10858987B2/en
That last specifically says why such a control is necessary and parameters needed to estimate the compressor outlet temp.

Forums can be fun but also should be useful resources of information. Sometimes it’s just the latter to the detriment of others.

 

So after my install I ran dragy times of course. 3 runs so far. Two with exact same zero to 60 times & quarter mile times and 1 run with .1 second faster for both, and no I don’t share my dragy numbers been asked in past threads too! So there is that…yes was ran in the morning with cooler outside air temp but I honestly don’t understand all the hate for the open air cold intakes. Even if it ran slower I still prefer the sound it now makes. I just hate seeing a post a person makes and it shows a certain part in the pic then all these people jump in telling that person he has a piece of crap part and not to use it. Those kits aren’t cheap first off and maybe the person did their own research and chose that part and was proud to have it until they got sh#% on by all the haters. Why do so many people hate on others rides/customs/accessories/etc? I just don’t get it. Leave your vehicle completely stock if you want or custom the crap out of it. Either way it’s YOUR vehicle don’t let others question your choices. Yes you can have your own opinions on things/parts/etc but if you actually read some of the posts on this forum there are so many negative Nannie’s i call them. I am truly sorry your life is sh%#tty but why try to bring others down?! I promise you life would be much easier with a positive attitude and trying to help people vs trying to put them down constantly. Ok, rant (off) now….sorry for hijacking this thread….