So - talk me down from the ledge....

I can’t blame you. I’d love to drive a GTR, they’re sweet.

 

Well, aside from the political beliefs of the peeps in this site, I have reduced the variables down to two issues that decided the best truck to buy taking everything into consideration.
1. most seen truck on TV... The Toyota with all the damn Insurgent shit on every news channel showing, you got it, the Toyota truck in all sorts of environments including getting shot to Hell by Warthogs with their GUI cannon.
2. see #1 as those Mahahnameds can't have any infrastructure available for maintenance at all. This promotes the intrinsic resale value phenomena.

 

I quit buying GM products after the whole ignition lock fiasco. I worked at enterprise at the time and it was incredibly frustrating that 50% of the time the keys would get stuck in the ignition and you could not remove them, even if the car was on. Upon investigation it turned up that GM KNEW about the faulty ignition switches and installed them anyway.

Couple that with the infotainment issues on Cadillac, generally crappy plastic quality, I’ll never own a GM again. They change structural component design (UCA) to frequently for my liking and they component material choices can be suspect.

But by far, the willful (I would say criminal) neglect of the ignition switches and its impact on everyday people that they knew would occur is enough to make me never give a once great brand a dollar off my money. I thank them for their LS Engine design and leave it at that.

 

If you went to a GMC Forum they will give you the same long list that you get here in opposition of the Tundra. Your opinion and like of the truck is all the matters when choosing a brand to go with. Toyota is far from the most popular truck brand in the U.S. having had 3 different ones I have had my share of "You need a real mans truck" comments. Dodge, GM, and Ford are the kings thus why you see their trucks everywhere. Every brand can have lemons I dont care what anyone says do I love the reliability of my Tundra absolutely! I have also seen a ton of guys get 200K+ out of their GM's and Fords. Whatever truck you enjoy most will be your best bet.

 

Cadillac makes the best GM product going and more of their technology permeates all forms of motor sports more than any other manufacturer. The LS is a brilliant piece of ICE development.
The latest Corvette is regarded by all world auto manufactures as the most well engineered performance car ever.
I just built up my version of the 2022 CT4 Blackwing and plan to purchase it in late spring. (go see why)
Nah, GM's only fault is kowtowing to the commie feds on the battery car wet dream, which is only another angle on control of the sheeple in this country.

 

^this

Ive seen this first hand. Although the tundra is "likely" to be more reliable on the average, that isn't always the case. I had a 2013 Ram that everyone said would fall apart every 10 miles and the trans would go out, it didn't matter of fact, that ZF8 was the best trans I have owned in a truck. Also, my tundra is the truck that wouldn't start and left me dead in the water when the fuel pump went out, my ram started every time I ever pushed the button.

this time around Im looking at the 2022 tundra and the 2022 GMC AT4 (not the x).

Im trying to figure out if I can fit the tundra in the garage, and if I even like it which I wont know until I can test drive one. I don't like the platinum price increase so far and also the fact that they took away the blueprint color in the platinum, I can't understand that since thats what they were parading around and I liked that color. The amount of color choices in the platinum suck at the moment, except for grey and I kinda wanted something different this time

 

People who are brand loyal is a great thing and Im all for it but I tell people all the time if Ford, GM and Dodge sucked so badly then you wouldnt see so many of their trucks around. In my area for every Tundra on the road there is 6 GM's, 10 Chevy's, 5 Dodges and 32 Fords lol. If someone wants to tell me that every single one of them hate their trucks then I would say that individual is an idiot lol

Also I have looked at other forums and they say the exact same thing we all say but against the Tundra. "My Buddy bought a Tundra and had nothing but problems traded it in for a Ram Rebel and never looked back".

 

I can say this with lots of knowledge.
The town I live in, (for 32 years) is primarily an AG town. The major brand of truck here is Ford, followed by GM.
Ram and Toyota comprise more of the "newer" trucks floating around town.
I know the owner of the Chevy / Ford dealership here as he owns both.
A lot of truth comes out on the golf course during weekend play and a majority of the trucks coming in for maintenance of some sort or another are Ford by double the GM units.
Farmers still by Fords because that's what their families always bought. They have more issues than the rest but they ignore the issues because "grandpa" was a Ford man.

 

I get it but...

Ford sells WAY more trucks so of course they will have more repairs.

 

Not so, you need to not make assumptions and do the math.
What you're looking for is rate of maintenance returns and that, shows Ford to be the worst and most expensive.

 

Just read that "article".... Holy crap. The absolute pussification and tyrannical attitude of these people. Seriously, it's an "I don't like/use it so it should be illegal" attitude at best or an "I know better than you how you should live your life and should be given the authority to force you to do as I say."

I hate people.

 

They also are not made as well and have repairs at a higher rate. The number of issues in every 10k F150s is much higher than the number of issues in every 10k Tundras.

 

Get the Denali if your plan is to sell it in two years and don't mind eating the insane depreciation otherwise get the Tundra. I however am waiting on the next redesign as the 2022 model is ugly as hell.

 

The PP100 in 2020 was Tundra at 130 and F150 at 138, not really significantly higher.

 

New here. I have a 2 week old 21 Tundra platinum.

Anyway, I buy fleet trucks for the business I manage. I bought 12 Fords and 2 Chevys this year. I had a Tremor on order because I couldn’t find a Tundra locally.

The Ford tremor I drove made the Tundra embarrassing from a features perspective at about the same price range. 360 camera, tailgate step system, cargo options, fuel economy, overall interior sexiness… all profoundly nicer in the Ford.

I still bought a Tundra. So there ya go. I’m replacing engines and transmissions in our fleet. I drove my last Toyota 350K and sold it to someone else who is still driving it.

If I could find fleet service in my area I’d convert to Toyota 100%. It might not be as cool, but I’m pretty sure it’ll last.

At least I know this engine is what I keep telling myself. I’m still going to have to spend the extra 10K on “cool” factor before I could reasonably say I’m on par w the new fords. I could have ordered the 22 but wanted the proven platform and the sexiness can be bought.

 

I very much prefer the raw data aggregated by Dashboard Light to JD Power. Aren’t JD’s ratings based on the initial 90 days of vehicle ownership?

DL specifically measures long term drivetrain reliability. Their data doesn’t really become meaningful until years and miles have passed.

 

Go ahead and buy 2 Denali's that way you will be sure to run over 300,000

 

If you can't wait for the 2022 Platinum Tundra or Capstone, I would suggest a 21 F150 Platinum over a GMC Sierra. I recently went with the Ford because I don't want to wait for the Capstone but will trade it in next year when the Capstone arrives. Having owned many Toyota and Lexus vehicles as well as a loaded 2016 GMC Sierra, I can say with confidence that Toyota is a significantly better product. I agree with a prior poster that the Ford's are sexy in terms of gadgets and in my opinion are far better than GM in terms of fit, finish, build quality, materials, etc, but neither is a Toyota overall. I can't speak for the 2022 Sierra with the new interior which looks nice and more appropriate for what they charge, but by 15,000 miles my Sierra was starting to feel like a GM in terms of rattles and general annoyances. Compared to my 2008 Tacoma with 130,000 miles and zero rattles or issues, the GM was a big let down. For those who think it's crazy to trade a 21 Ford I just purchased on a 22 Tundra, I bought the Ford private party and got a great deal that I believe will insulate me from most of the depreciation while I wait for Capstone. Overall, they are all nice trucks, but I'm very confident that the Toyota is the best built.

 

+1 on the GM rattles. Both our older Suburban and our current Yukon sound like they’re going to fall apart going down the road. Rattles galore. In my experience, the GM 5.3L is a reliable engine, but you need to put a Range AFM Disabler in it ASAP, or it’ll drink a couple quarts of oil between changes. We got 260k miles out of our 5.3 Suburban before trading it in. Our Yukon, also a 5.3, is at 147k with no major issues but some electrical quirks. It has stranded my wife twice…one time was limp mode due to a fouled cylinder, and the other time it blew a heater core hose. I fixed that in the dark on the side of the highway. NOT FUN.

Now that I think about it, all the Fords in my family rattle like crazy, too. My Grandpa’s 2001 7.3L F350 (understandable), my FIL’s 2016 3.5EB F150, and my MIL’s newer Explorer. My wife borrowed her dad’s truck recently to haul some stuff while I was at work, and she told me afterward that it felt a lot cheaper and less solid than my Tundra. I told her that’s the main reason I bought a Toyota—I have too much experience with everyone else’s Fords.

 

Good thread!

Two asides to possibly add to the side conversations:

There is an interesting US map somewhere of the biggest selling *vehicle* in every state...F150 flat runs away with it.

Mention of the GM ignition lock fiasco: the Valukas Report on the matter (not light reading) is a fascinating litany of failure analysis...if you l like to study that sort of thing. They broke rules galore on that switch (reusing old part number for the corrected product, etc) and every break in proper procedure developed into a cascade of bad juju.

 

Not a funny story but funny.

My boss is a Chevy guy. Drives a 2019 High Country.

39,000 miles, 2 year old truck, critical oil warning. We were only 10 miles from our shop. Dipped it and stick was dry. No leaks detected. 2 quarts low. Put oil in and drive another 1200 miles, dip it again. It’s clearly burning oil. His trade in light is on.

Told me when I rolled up in my new Tundra last week that my truck was “not cool”. He’s right. Stock, his is cooler looking than mine. But I’m not done. Rims, wheels, lift, all coming…

We put a lot of miles on our rigs (agriculture, my 10 day old truck has 1000 miles on it). It never was an option for me to buy a Chevy. I get a $1000/mo allowance + all service, wear parts and fuel is expensed. I could have gotten whatever I want.

But who’s going to be laughing in years 5-13 while he’s still toting payments on his Chevy that he has to trade all the time. I’ll be using that allowance to pad my bank account.

mmm. Okay bruh. Whatevs.

 

Agree with you on everything you said. I think the '21 F150 is built better than the '16 Sierra I had (can't speak for the new 22's) but I still suspect that I will have typical domestic aging issues with the F150 over time, which is why I will be moving to the Capstone Tundra as soon as they are widely available. Personally, while they have upped their game dramatically, I wish the domestic manufacturers would achieve the quality levels that I've experienced in Toyota/Lexus for the last 20 years of owning various models. I've simply never had anything as good as a Toyota truck or a Lexus sedan in terms of reliability and build quality.

 

AMEN

 

I almost bought the Denali... it is about 15k more. Which motor? I would only do it if it were the bigger V8. They are both very nice and the Denali is dialed both inside and out. It's really up to you. I like the 10speed transmission with the 6.2 Ecotech and the 6.5ft bed. (I ended up buying a 2021 Platinum)





I was able to do mods with the money I saved

 

Glad I could brighten your day a bit.

 

I am a huge fan of Scotty Killmer, he is a life long mechanic and has his own Youtube chanel. he routinly condemns all GMC, he doesn't care for any of the new products and thinks they are poorly designed. He really dislikes the 8/6/4 cylinder shutdown technolgy and says the money you save in fuel costs will be spent on repairs. I have rented multiple Denali's over the last 5 years for road trips. what can you say... they are amazingly comfortable and powerful. But I would never buy one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fc_IARDCqU

 

One problem I have with Scotty is his blatant pro Ford bias. He still blindly recommends the F150 with the 5.0L Coyote despite all the reliability issues they've been having with it since about 2018.

 

He’s also blatantly self-contradictory. It’s smart, I guess; he keeps from alienating fans of different vehicles. One example:

Those videos are only about two months apart.

 

He tends to do the "one of my customers brought me this 15 year old Mercedes and it doesn't have any serious codes right now so I guess this is a reliable model."

Or "this Jaguar was actually built by Ford so it's reliable."

"All GMs are crap. Except their HD trucks. Those are well built. And this Aveo I rented because it's actually a Daewoo."