So, I rode in my buddies F-150

I'm not sure of the year of his truck, or what engine configuration he has, although I'm guessing it was significantly newer than my 2010 SR5.

He also must have had one of the nicer trim levels, because there was leather everywhere. It was friggin' beautiful.

I loved the dash and center console design. It looked like a cross between a real truck and the control panel of the space shuttle...bright lights, big gauges and switches everywhere; quite unlike the dash and center console of my truck, which kinda reminds me of a Camry.

And the ride was so much smoother than my my truck, but I have an OME lift on mine and it definitely rides like a truck.

So, after about 30 seconds of sitting in the passenger seat I was all ready to trade in my Tundra. I now totally understood the appeal of the F-150's.

But wait.

When I was admiringly looking at my buddies dash, no doubt with drool coming out of the corners of my mouth, I noticed he had a check engine light illuminated on his dash.

Apparently, there is some sensor that regulates the gas flow to the engine that was out. It will cost him over $2000.00 to have it repaired by the dealer, particularly if he replaces the water pump and thermostat, which is in the same general area as the faulty sensor. If he does the repair himself, it will still be way over a grand.

In the mean time he was driving around with less than full power.

In the morning when we went fishing, which involved driving rough scrub board roads that were at times very muddy, in addition to being very remote...guess what?...we took my truck. My buddy didn't trust his truck to be reliable in the back country. I'm not kidding.

My 2010 has just shy of 140K miles and the only non-maintenance issue I have had is needing to replace a drivers side front axle, about $350.

I just can't believe it. I've heard all the stories, most of them on this site, about how unreliable the Fords are and this is my very first direct experience with a Ford truck and it just confirms everything I have read.

I friggin' love my Tundra.

 

I go to the auto show every year to check out the new trucks. I will say that the F150's seats are very comfortable. While I don't think our seats are uncomfortable, I wish Toyota would take note of what Ford has done w/theirs.

 

Agreed! I came from a 2015 Silverado and that thing had issues too. Electrical issues with power seats. A clicking in the engine that I was told is "normal". And the thing ate oil. Brand new vehicle and in 5,000miles I was down a 1.5quarts. I would drive it to my hunting property and feel like I was breaking it. That is why I switched to a tundra. Screw MPGs, if I know I can get from one place to another without worry I am all set.

 

Coworker just got a brand new 3.0 turbo diesel f150 platinum. Thing feels premium, nice low end power and like you said the interior is pretty good looking. Hopefully it lasts long for him. I just know my tundra should run until the wheels off and I still think it’s a better looking truck

 

Buddy at work has a 150 platinum that we take to lunch often, the seats are great and the butt massagers are a nice extra. The reality is that trim really just makes it a luxury vehicle, as is my 1794, and that's what I'm primarily using my truck as.

He's had comparatively more issues than a tundra for sure. Nothing that has left him stranded but definitely worth an extended warranty on. I would buy one (almost did) but much prefer the styling and ride of the Toyota.

 

I also agree that some of the others are nicer inside, and maybe even outside. The RAMs, which are at the bottom of the list for reliability, rides like a Caddillac with the coil springs in the back. A Ford King Ranch edition is my absolute dream truck - I love the theme; leather type and color etc..
But, We have a fleet of trucks at work, various brands, and they just seem to be programmed to self-destruct at some point. You can maintain them and replace parts, and they will keep running to a million miles, but it is going to cost money - sadly what people think is normal.
My Toyotas have always gone for years and years without issues. There certainly is a difference.

 

I had an ‘85 and a ‘93 fullsize Bronco. Both had bad auto transmissions. The ‘93 had its trans go south twice and the electronic t-case broke as well, all while still under 100K miles. Both constantly had trouble starting and I had to replace the starter solenoid and relay numerous times. The a/c would also break down constantly, as would the power windows. Unlike the thinner Tundra and Tacoma frames, the Bronco frames were thick and difficult to drill, but my brother-in-law still managed to somehow bend the front frame when getting the ‘93 pulled out of the mud.

By contrast, my father in law had an ‘86 single cab manual with the inline 6. That thing was unstoppable. He piled on 600K hard miles on it before selling it, only having to replace the clutch twice. His ‘97 has over 400K mostly trouble-free miles, with the main repairs only being worn out ball joints and shocks.

My brother-in-law currently has a 2014 4x4. It looks nice and has a nice interior, but it just blew a headgasket at around the 100K mile mark.

Ford seems to be hit or miss in my opinion when it comes to trouble-free reliability. If you get a good one, like my father-in-law has (twice), they’re unstoppable work horses. But then you get the lemons like the two I had and the one my brother-in-law has and you realize that sometimes it seems like it’s the luck of the draw.

 

at some point, i'm going to fix the seat issue with a pair of these...

 

That is exactly it. Toyota has a quality control system that is world renowned. They cover all the bases. Everyone else tries to save a penny here and a penny there; then it becomes luck of the draw. One weaker bolt that saves a penny can break and cause a lot of damage. One bearing that fails because it only made a 96% instead of 99% on the reliability scale can cause a lot of damage.
The difference in reliability is small. If you look at the stats it may be 3 in 100 Ford fails where 1 in 100 Toyotas fail - it is a small number, but still 3 times as many. (I made the numbers up for discussion - I don't remember the real numbers, but you get the point...)

 

Where Ford truly has it over Tundra is safety; front crash and rollover. The F-150 actually has a full overhead canopy airbag. I owned a 2012 F-150 Lariet Supercrew with a 5.0 coyote. Had a few minor issues, but nothing catastrophic like the guys with the EcoBoosts. The steering is electronic, they call it Electronic Power Assist Steering or EPAS, and it’s the reason I sold it. Total POS steering rack made in China. The price new was 42K, but now they’re 60K plus. If they would delete the EPAS for hydraulic, I might reconsider. Meh, maybe not. I’ll wait for the 2020 or 2021 Tundra.

 

The clicking is actually normal for those trucks, my dad has a 16’ Silverado and it had the v4/v8 thing. When the truck switches to v4 mode the sound you are hearing is the lifters creating compression in the other (empty/no combustion) 4 cylinders.

 

I have a buddy with a 2017 eco-blast. It is like owning a time share. So far the dealer has had possession longer than he has. I let him drive the trusty taco when the ford goes down. They used to give him a loaner but that has stopped. They have been inside that engine three times that he admits. It has been bad from day one and they refuse to let him have a different one. He bought the big warranty so as far as I know there hasn't been any money exchanged. He has used two different dealers. No luck. Somehow they have skirted the lemon law. Either way it's a $46k truck with less than 30k miles that refuses to run.

 

I read the whole crash rating articles... I'm sure that the others performed better being a newer design. At the end of the day I still feel safer in the tundra than I would in a Prius

 

I wrote off Ford after I had a 2011 Taurus with the 3.5L V6 "Dura"tec. Wasn't durable at all - mainly because they have an INTERNAL water pump. Yes, internal. So at 97,000 miles the shaft blew it's seal and dumped the entire contents of the cooling system into my engine. It cycled all the coolant/oil mix throughout the engine.

No idiot lights. No dings/dongs. I only noticed because my fans blasted to airliner take off speed. 99% of these failures result in the destruction of the engine, I shut my down immediately and was able to save it. Ford charges ~$1400 for the repair, I used my local mechanic and told him if it'd save me money, he can take it as long as he needs. He did it in 2 weeks for $900. I mandated he change the oil three times to flush out the coolant contaminated oil in the engine.

Sold it 4 months later and bought my Tundra and a $600 Chevrolet cavalier with 176,000 miles. It now has 186,000 miles and all I have had to replace so far was the coil pack (got it from a wrecked Cobalt for $25)

Will never buy a ford again, unless its a Mustang with the 5.0.

Irony: My Tundras water pump is leaking - but at least I can change it in 4 or so hours for $80...because its on the OUTSIDE of the engine where it belongs.

 

Fix Or Repair Daily

 

F150s are the ugliest trucks in the market. Fords front grilles have been awful looking for a long time. Big 3 are junk nowadays. Tundra is the only option nowadays. Hope they don’t screw up the next generation. Have a feeling they will.

 

My 2010 Raptor was rock solid for the 130k+ miles I had it. Took that thing into and out of places so remote not even the offroad tow companies would go.

But... my buddy bought himself a 2018 F150 and has had nothing but problems. Its been back to the dealer probably 10 times now. The latest, just this morning, his entire HU/radio died. He told me the driver's seat lumbar support has been broken for a while, and was just waiting for something else to break (like the HU) before taking it in. Trying to minimize the visits.

He's SERIOUSLY considering leaving it there this time, and heading to the Toyota dealership...

 

I love my truck. When I’m not with it.. I think about it. It doesn’t have everything. I wouldn’t mind a few other buttons like electronic differential etc. but it gives me a sense of comfort knowing that it’s pretty damn bulletproof compared to my other vehicles I’ve had. Although I never put 100% faith in anything.

 

I've kicked around the idea of buying new seats as well, but I'm 6'4" 250 so unless I can sit in them first to make sure they're more comfortable and sized properly, I'm reluctant to do so. I hadn't heard of that brand yet. I'll have to look them up.

 

Seats are a funny thing...
I had a 2018 Ford Raptor and I had the worst lower back pain. I actually had to purchase a seat cushion...sucks to do that for a $70k pick up.

 

I hear that. 6'9" 320 here. Crazy that the base 40/20/40 cloth seat was by far the most conformable option available in the Tundra for me. Blows away the seat I had in my 2017 Ram 2500 Laramie.

 

https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-seat-in-the-house-scheel-mann-seat-review/

 

Here are my thoughts.
I wish my Tundra could haul 3,000#s in the bed like an F150 without snapping the frame like a twig, as opposed to the1600#s my Tundra is rated for. I wish it did better in the new crash tests like the F150, or Honda Ridgeline(the Tundra did so poorly, worse than Ram 1500s even, Consumer Reports revoked their recommendation to buy one)
I also had great customer service when I owned a Ford. Toyota is hit or miss in that respect. I put 130,000 hard miles on a new 2001 Ranger(which was rated to carry as much weight as my full size 2018 Tundra with an 8 foot bed), and never once did a single thing break or leak(like cam towers...), and the Ford dealer always was great, with the most trivial complaint I had taken care of, unlike shady Toyota, who cannot even give a straight answer to simple questions(I have caught customer service, and the dealer, lying more than once, about minor things).
Toyota makes decent small engines, but zero excuses for oil leaks in their 5.7s. That is something to be expected from FIAT, not the Japanese. They know better.
Furthermore, we all know the Tundra interior is made to same high standard as a 1995 Dodge Neon, literally. Huge Gaps, cheap plastic, and steering wheels that look like they were cut out of the moulds with a dull hacksaw by a blind, one armed chimpanzee suffering a seizure. 20 year old F150s and 2007 Tundras have better interiors than 2019 Tundras, in build quality, and style. 2019 Tundra interior door panels appear to be designed by the same people who designed the dash board in 1998 Camaros.
Knowing all this(except the crash tests, these are new) I still bought a 2018 Tundra, but I have had dozens of new vehicles over the years, and this one leaves me unimpressed on build quality, and capability, even compared to vehicles I bought back in the 90's. The big horsepower v8 was novel in 2007, but nowadays, big strong v8s are a dime a dozen, and Toyota's is the least efficient, and leaks oil for many of those who buy them.
The way I see it, the current Tundra was designed to compete with domestic products for a 2007 launch, products that were, in turn, designed back in the 1990's, like the 2000 - 2006 silverado. The updates on the Tundra were cosmetic since 2007, mostly. They simply are not comparable to new Rams, F150s, and new Silverados, except in towing and horsepower. The safety, the quality of the interior, "acceptable" oil leaks, all are standards from a bygone era, with no place in the modern market. Toyota needs to remember the old saying about reputations, something about years to make them, and seconds to break them.

 

I have a hunting buddy who is a dyed-in-the-wool Ford guy and wouldn't consider driving another truck. He works at a local Ford dealer and bought a '16 F-150 XLT eco boost in '16. Crew cab, 6 1/2' bed, leather, loaded with pretty much everything. It spent more time in his shop at the dealership than it did in his driveway. Trans problems, drive line problems, turbo issues. The last straw for him was a failed fuel pump that left him stranded. He ended up trading down to a '14, pre aluminum body 5.0 liter. The best part and the one I point out to him all of the time is that thru all of the times his new, latest and greatest F-150 was in the shop, the vehicle that sat outside in the freezing cold next to his garage, the one that started every time, the one that could be counted on without question.... his old '91 Camry.

 

Good God man. You're not Cement, you're the whole Cement Truck.

 

Like I said and CLEARLY wrote, knowing all that BEFORE I bought my Tundra, I still bought it. But I have had enough experience with new vehicles, and regularly drive many models of truck, to know the Tundra is way over-hyped by a few fan boys, just like the Fords, and I hate to break it to you, ergonomics wise, it is a very VERY average truck overall. Toyota knows this, and a savvy buyer can get a new Tundra for way way less then the msrp. I bought mine for 31k when it had an msrp at 38k, BRAND NEW. That is why I bought it. If you want a top notch modern vehicle, the Tundra is a weak non viable option. If you like old stuff, go for it, as I did. BUT, Buying one does not mean I have to give Toyota passes for flimsy customer service, and defend them from other consumers observations, so Toyota don't get hurt feelings, like Some people........who act like they invented the Tundra, lol.

 

So many things.

Speaking of "Fiat not Japanese" my wifes car is an Acura, a High End Honda, and the thing is a piece of absolute S**T , its got 40K miles and he's had a transmission replaced, and so much engine work. It spent the first 4 weeks of its life in the shop getting all kinds of things fixed, and generally spends a few days every 6 months getting something fixed. The 9 speed transmission issue on Acura is a well known issue, so even with Japanese, things sometimes happen.

As for interior, go check out a "new" 2019 Silverado. I did, the exterior of the Trail Boss version is really nice, but the interior looks like it came from a 90's Pontiac. Gigantic plasticky knobs and buttons and dials, and NO OPTION for a center shifter, the only option is the steering column shifter, from a 1985 Family Truckster.. even in 2019 the Tundra interior is GENERATIONS beyond the GM interiors.

as for the F150, my father has a 2013 F150 Lariat, and the interior is nice, I'm not a fan of Sync, it is slow, the navigation is slow, but the exterior, is horrible. Talk about hopping and skipping over road imperfections, or hard shifting, and gigantic turning radius, and general poor drivability and NVH.

While the Tundra may not be perfect in every category, its good in every category, and I love it.

 

I dunno man. Sounds like you're comparing apples and oranges in most respects. I've "Build and Price"d a Tundra vs F150 to match an SR5 spec close as I can get it, and sure looks to me to be roughly $8k more for the F150. Is $8k worth tighter fitting plastics (that ultimately end up squeaking and rattling, in my experience)?

Payload numbers on the F150 *can* be configured somewhere north of 2500lbs if you give up a lot of the creature comforts, but even so no config I saw gave anywhere close to the 3k you quote. And... aluminum frame... jury is still out on that. Time will tell.

As for dealer support: I think this has a whole lot to do with the dealer, and not the mfg'r. The Ford dealer I took my truck to was flat terrible. I knew more about the truck than they did, and they didn't care a bit. Same can be said for the (different) dealer my buddy goes to that I referenced above. On the flip side, apparently the Toyota dealer here is top notch. Can't speak from experience though, as I haven't had to take the Tundra in yet.

To each their own for sure. The F150 is the best selling truck for a reason, where the Tundra doesn't even show up on the radar. But I humbly suggest the two aren't as far apart as you may think.

PS: That crash test you reference is troubling, but not nearly as much as the media makes it seem. Gotta remember the test standards are constantly changing and what was great last year is all the sudden a death trap this year. Use that latest test as a data point only, and be sure to compare it to the other testing standards used by the gov when trying to decide. And as for the Consumer Reports recommendation... yeah no. CR is probably the biggest boondoggle ever perpetrated on the American consumer. You can do a whole lot better than CR, with others who aren't paid to give their thumbs up.

 

That's quite the review. I may have to head out to one of the Overland Expo's soon to check them out.

 

Haha true that. Here, look... nope that's not a Tacoma... that bigfoot...



I used this pic to convince the wife I simply HAD to lift it. She couldn't argue