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Smart Stop Technology

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by rons23, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Apr 28, 2015 at 3:20 PM
    #1
    rons23

    rons23 [OP] Next Round is on me! Live OBX

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    Has anyone here had this software update done to there Tundra. This update is for 07-10 Tundra. I'm a little leary about getting it done, but it is a safety recall/issue. What's y'alls thoughts. Thanks
     
  2. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:02 PM
    #2
    Mike

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    Why would you be leary about a recall? Recall is there for a REASON. You could be running around with a bad firmware on the brake system or any other system and not know it. ALWAYS i mean ALWAYS get recalls done no matter how small they are..
     
  3. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:03 PM
    #3
    matluth

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    I was at the dealer a couple of weeks ago. I knew about the smart stop "fix" and was asked if I wanted it done. I politely declined as it is not necessary. Too many nanny's already spoiling all the fun. This is what is known as a CYA recall not a true safety issue. Mainly for people who need nannys controlling every aspect of their truck. IMO.
     
  4. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:21 PM
    #4
    Mike

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    You opened up ALOT of legal issues. Dealer ( if smart) made a note of it in there computer, so if a lawsuit ever comes too, your SOL, if someone say gets killed for whatever reason while the truck is in your hands.

    PRODUCT LIABILITY people.
     
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  5. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:25 PM
    #5
    matluth

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    If this issue was a true and present safety hazard it would be a mandated recall imposed by the NHTSA. Another example of a CYA recall was the gas pedal trim that they did on my 09 Tacoma without asking me when I was in getting the freebie rear leaf spring upgrade. The pedal trim CYA "recall" was mainly for Nimrods who bought universal floor mats and improperly used them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  6. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:30 PM
    #6
    matluth

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    There is a lot of info out there about this new CYA smart stop recall. The mechanic that worked on my truck did not have it done on his 2010 Tundra either. Nothing to do with product liability, just another nanny IMO and many others.
     
  7. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:36 PM
    #7
    Mike

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    Limited Service Campaign BST.. ITS INTERNAL RECALL

    On July 24, 2013, the settlement of claims for Economic Loss arising from allegations of unintended acceleration was approved. As part of this settlement, Toyota will install Smart Stop Technology on certain model and model year vehicles. This feature will cut engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedalat certain speeds and in certain driving conditions."

    This is LEGAL.. and yes its a recall just limited not nationwide.
     
  8. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:40 PM
    #8
    Mike

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    So your mechanic is better than the lawyers and the engineers who made it right? i got to meet this guy..

    you need to read up a product liability.. laws have changed.

    If you dont like nanny stuff on your truck you better keep the truck you have for the rest of your life there is new nanny as you call it coming in the works and toyota and ford both are leading the race on that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  9. Apr 28, 2015 at 4:57 PM
    #9
    matluth

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    You are correct except was mandated as a "precautionary measure" as part of the settlement. Anyone who refused the gas pedal trim also had it recorded to cover Toyotas' behind. The gas pedal trim was also done as a precautionary measure and was an internal recall.Not sure how many Tundras actually had unintended acceleration issues. Was mainly with Camry's. Like I said, there is a lot pro and con thought's out there on different forums. By all means have the update done if only for piece of mind.
     
  10. Apr 28, 2015 at 5:15 PM
    #10
    matluth

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    I like new technology. I work with it every day. I have been in the field of Metrology for over 35 years (science of measurement) I calibrate and repair high end RF test equipment valued in the tens of thousands of $. Eventually your "future" truck will be able to drive itself with all its' nanny's. All you have to do is sit. To each his own.
     
  11. Apr 28, 2015 at 5:16 PM
    #11
    Mike

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    it was a precautionary because toyota NOR the feds could get the cars to do what the drivers said it was done during the accident. But toyota lost do product liability because toyota knew about this problem all along and covered it up that has been noted in many news write ups on this.

    GM(like toyota) learned about covering up recalls too, saying nothing was wrong, and what almost 2 years later GM is still recalling bad car/trucks on the road..

    Toyota has learned to open its mouth, about recalls, now and im glad, they have and quit hiding problems, in there cars/trucks, no car or truck company builder is perfect.
     
  12. Apr 28, 2015 at 5:17 PM
    #12
    rons23

    rons23 [OP] Next Round is on me! Live OBX

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    Well to Mike and Matluth, didn't mean to start a war lol, I see both points. Hopefully someone has got it installed that could chime in. I will more than likely get it installed, just wanted some insight. Thanks
     
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  13. Apr 28, 2015 at 5:22 PM
    #13
    Mike

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    No war :)... i just like getting my point across thats all. i just dont want to see someone get hurt over something when a fix was in place that could have prevented it to start.
     
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  14. Apr 28, 2015 at 5:39 PM
    #14
    matluth

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    Ditto. No war. Smart Stop Technology is a possible "fix" for "something" that no one knows for sure if it is even "broken" or even "exists". Maybe better to be safe than sorry.Peace.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
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  15. Apr 28, 2015 at 8:22 PM
    #15
    Sean266

    Sean266 #ThinBlueLine Staff Member

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    If it's a recall, you can bet I would get it done. I would hate to have to explain why something did / did not work and now I have to answer why I didn't get the recall..."because it's not necessary" ...but they may be able to prove it was and may have played a determing factor in preventing said accident.
     
  16. Apr 28, 2015 at 9:38 PM
    #16
    matluth

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    I agree with that. Its just that I was asked if I wanted SST flash done. It was not presented to me as something that needed to be done, only recommended. From what I understand it can be turned off just like VSC and AutoLSD. I will contact the dealer tomorrow and get some clarification on this. If this is something that needs to be done, I will do it. Sometimes at speed you purposely use the gas and brake pedal at the same time. Would you want the engine to cut down when you don't want it to? Also what if you deliberately turn off VCS and and then have an accident? Can you now be sued because you turned off a perfectly good VCS system? I think these are valid concerns too along with the obvious safety issues that are addressed with SST technology. I know that the NHTSA and NASA found no fault with Toyotas fly by wire system. Only a jury determined that there "could have been" cause. The decision against Toyota was widely panned as being excessive and highly punitive at the time.
     
  17. Apr 29, 2015 at 5:40 AM
    #17
    matluth

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    I just got off the horn with the dealer. Smart Stop flash is a Limited Service Campaign set to expire in March 2016. After March 2016 I guess you pay to have it done.Most safety recalls are open ended with no expiration date and can be done at any time for free to protect buyers of used vehicles that did not have the recalls performed. I had this situation with my 09 Tacoma. I decided to have it done tomorrow afternoon after being re-assured that it would not affect off-road driving and it is a complete re-flash (all updates, a plus). SST is apparently now standard on all new Toyotas. I am not totally convinced but going ahead anyways. Anyone out there have any experience good or bad off the road with this "smart" technology that overrides other "smart" technology?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  18. Apr 29, 2015 at 7:17 AM
    #18
    chphilo

    chphilo New Member

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    My understanding is that after several reports of unintended acceleration back around 2009-2010, Toyota Tundras were recalled to replace the floor mats and to trim the accelerator pedals. Next came the US Congress's request to study Toyota's electronic throttle system. While the case was being studied (it was a 10-months study), Toyota developed the Smart Stop Technology and started installing it on new vehicles. After this development, the Toyota electronic throttle system study was finished, concluding that there was nothing wrong with the Toyota electronic throttle system and the sticky pedals were due to drivers' error.

    Now give that the 'solution' was provided for the non-existence problem, I don't see why this update has to be done, or make your vehicle unsafe if you don't. I have not done the floor mats/shaving of the accelerator pedal, nor do I plan to install this Smart Stop Technology. My truck has been flawless for the last five years and I do not want to install an unnecessary gadgets that may potentially mess up my perfect track record. :)
     
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  19. Apr 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM
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    matluth

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    Ditto on everything you posted. Hard to have a solution with no verified problem (with empirical proof) to begin with. What you end up with is a band-aid "fix". Don't see how there can be any "product liability" issues either on a closed ended limited service campaign. Whether Legal or Math, it is hard to prove liability or an equation when all you have at best are false positives. Many truck owners may never realize that there is an issue unless they come here, other forum's that addresses this (there are a few) or Toyota's site.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  20. Apr 29, 2015 at 4:51 PM
    #20
    Mike

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    WRONG.. READ.. there was a problem and toyota covered it up.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...38a3c4-af69-11e3-9627-c65021d6d572_story.html

    "
    The problem was caused by plastic material inside the pedal that could cause the accelerator to become stuck in a partially depressed position. The pedals were installed in several models, including the Camry, the Matrix, the Corolla and the Avalon.


    The problem had surfaced in Toyota vehicles in Europe in 2008, causing instances of uncontrolled acceleration. In early 2009, the company gave European Toyota distributors information about the sticky pedals along with instructions to replace them if customers complained.

    Meanwhile, rather than issuing a recall, the company quietly directed its pedal supplier to change parts in Europe and made plans to roll out the same change in the United States.

    "For several months, Toyota received more evidence of the pedal problem and quietly made plans to address it without informing federal safety officials as required by law. Concerned that federal officials would learn about these plans, the company canceled the change in pedal design and communicated that change orally rather than in writing, so there would be no paper trail. "
     
  21. Apr 29, 2015 at 5:02 PM
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    Mike

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  22. Apr 29, 2015 at 6:09 PM
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    matluth

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    1. And what exactly does the aforementioned pedal issue have to do with this discussion which concerns the "limited campaign" as in limited,Smart Stop flash update and Toyota's fly -by- wire system ( ie:the never proven electronic issue, not the proven sticky mechanical pedal issue) that the update allegedly addresses? I can cut and paste random info from several different hundred page reports. It is not my limited recall. Read your own previous post. "Limited Campaign " which expires in March 2016. I never claimed Toyota did not cover up anything. It is clear that you know something that even the NHTSA and NASA could not find. You might want to inform them. Maybe ask them to RE-READ their own findings. I will be getting flash update tomorrow so you can have piece of mind that I won't kill someone and get sued. I am moving on now. Can you? I know you want the last word, in the mean time I will go watch ice melt.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
  23. Apr 29, 2015 at 7:34 PM
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    chphilo

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    You do realize that this article was from 2010, right? Didn't several lengthy investigations subsequently cleared Toyota?

    More I read about this issue (your selection of articles is one-sided), more unclear it seems to become. There is legal issue of cover up. If there was cover up, I think Toyota should be fined for that. But then again, just because a woman sues McDonald's for hot coffee and wins, does not mean their product is defective. I do not wish to confuse the legal issues from engineering issues. Often companies will settle for strategic reasons unrelated to technical merit.

    After so many years (there have been many other brand cars involved in this issue long time before 2009) it is still not clear what the cause of sudden acceleration is. Many theories exist. If small plastic material (relatively easy fix) in the pedal is the cause, it does not make sense to me why Toyota would spend millions of $$ to replace floor mats, shaving pedals, etc, especially since it is alleged that Toyota knew this and covered it up. Maybe they just want to spend money.

    Do we now know what the real cause was? Initial investigations cleared Toyota, as I recall. Did subsequent investigation find any definitive answer or find the initial investigation faulty? I don't recall. If we do in fact know the cause of sudden acceleration, we should no longer have this problem, ever, right? I highly doubt that's what's going to happen (or not happen).
     
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  24. Apr 29, 2015 at 8:34 PM
    #24
    Mike

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    We have really DERAILED this thread now. ( last post on me)

    I will agree with you on things. 2014 press tho hasnt changed much has it? http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 and toyotas lawyers are not talking so still one sided i guess.

    They where cleared but they still paid the fine.. If you paid the fine your at fault. If you read the press release from toyota its strange but ok. ( we paid and moving on)

    Funny you said something( real cause of pedal) i found this. http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=1854 look near the bottom now they have pinpointed a issue looks like it to me or a cover up?

    Im putting this to rest but i will agree with your comment this was a mess to start and toyota is still is trying to get is straight. But recalls are recalls and they shouldnt be ignored.
     
  25. Apr 29, 2015 at 9:39 PM
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    TruckyTruck

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    Jeeze mike, if you put this much effort into working on your build page.... Coming soon, but never... Ha extra derailed.
     
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  26. Apr 29, 2015 at 10:13 PM
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    Mike

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    Some how I knew you or csviper or sean was going to say that: and rag on me. I have been waiting on that since i posted that.. UGH... its all good tho man. im waiting on bob to get the gallery up first then a build page will begin.. I have started you know wink wink over on the retro section on hid lights if you missed it.(cough cough)

    https://www.tundras.com/threads/mikes-stepside-build-page.1615/ does this help?

    This train is beyond derailed now. Crashed and burning with un1075, 1203, 1863 tankers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
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  27. Apr 29, 2015 at 10:37 PM
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    csuviper

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    Some Mods :) See build thread for details
    To conclude.......
     
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  28. Apr 30, 2015 at 6:07 AM
    #28
    Sean266

    Sean266 #ThinBlueLine Staff Member

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    Here's the bottom line -
    It's your truck do what you want with it.

    If you decline the recall, that's fine too. You're the one who will need to answer up to it, if/when something happens and its determined that may have played a factor.

    If you want the recall, that's great too, and probably a smart choice...I know I would.
     
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  29. Apr 30, 2015 at 7:30 AM
    #29
    matluth

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    That is good advice. I am scheduled for the SST flash update at 3:00. For those of you that have not had the flash update done and are on the fence ,there is still plenty of time to do your own research to help you make your own decision.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
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  30. Apr 30, 2015 at 9:16 AM
    #30
    rons23

    rons23 [OP] Next Round is on me! Live OBX

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    Vehicle:
    2008 Nautical Blue TRD
    Sabm (Gtek-Fab), Blake Carbon Diamond Plate door sil protecters, and Air Dam mod, Black Rivited Grill, Devil Horns- Black Anodized(Diaz Fabrication), Hid's in Low Beams and Fogs -6000k, Piaa Extreme for High Beams. Black Rhino Step Tubes, Razir Led interior Lights (white), Low Profile Black Diamond Plate Tool Box, Trd accesories, Weather Tech Mats, Carbon Fiber Shorty Antenna, Drl's, Plasta Dipped Badges + Front Grill Surround
    Ok guys I went to get this update at a local Toyota dealership and this is what I know. The service manager and a service tech told me that this issue came from people hitting the gas and brake pedal at the same. Then people were claiming that is was there vehicle automatically doing it. True or false information I do not know. Anyway Toyota came up with this smart stop technology where if you hit both pedals it reduces power to your engine. The tech said that Tundra owners have came in and decided not to get the update. I also decided against it. Basically it's personal preference. I never had any problems with pushing one pedal at a time. I don't power brake. I haven't had any problems with my pedals. Also it was interesting to hear from 2 Toyota tech's, one being a service manager basically saying well............... If you want to. I just got the impression they were not on board with this whole campaign. That definitely played a part in my decision. I hope this helps. I'm not in any way saying don't do it, just not worth it to me.
     
    matluth likes this.
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