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Slow crank, no start

Discussion in '2nd Gen Tundras (2007-2013)' started by TundraTinker, Oct 3, 2021.

  1. Oct 5, 2021 at 2:12 PM
    #31
    NueveTundra

    NueveTundra Internet Certified Forum Mechanic

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    Exterior: Toytec ultimate 3" lift level , GoodYear helper air bags , DayStar air bag cradles, AcanII smoked headlights, AcanII smoke Tail lights (2.5 gen style), DV8 front winch bumper , Badlands 12k winch , White AUTMATCH Shackles 3/4" D Ring Shackle, White AutoBots winch hook, Trail Ridge mirrors , 20x9 Creeps rims , 33x12.50r20 RoadOnes , Black Hart cross drilled n slotted rotors , Rigid flood flush mounts rear bumper , WeatherTec rain guards , OEM black side badges , Rigid Amber Radiance Pods. Energy Suspension Red Rack and Pinion Bushings, EAG front mesh Grille, RCI HighLift bed mounts. Rough Country DS2 Steps, A.R.E OverLand Canopy with Ascend basket, Stickers: ToyTec lifts windshield banner, Red Strange Music window sticker(back cab), White Strange Music sticker(back canopy), White Rigid sticker x2 (canopy sides), white Official BigFoot Research Team (Back Canopy) Interior: Alpine double din touch iLX-650 , JL C5-653's (front) JL C1-650x (rear) , JL JX400 4 channel amp , JL JX500 mono amp , 2 JL 12" subs , WeatherTec floor mats, Kenwood F/R Dash Cams, Under the Hood: Koyo all aluminum radiator, Mishimoto red silicon hoses , XS Power 3000 amp battery , LAlectric 300 amp Alternator , K&N replacement filter. Online LED store accessories Fuse/relay box. unknown Cat-Back exhaust.
  2. Oct 5, 2021 at 2:21 PM
    #32
    NueveTundra

    NueveTundra Internet Certified Forum Mechanic

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    So as per Toyota on checking by rotating from that last video its 28 full revolutions ...... I would follow the 9 minute video from Toyota and call it good and return the new chain if you bought one. :)
     
  3. Oct 5, 2021 at 2:38 PM
    #33
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Fender Flares, Dasaita HU, and your mom
    Thanks! That's actually what I'm watching right now, haha. Just getting a little OCD with my wife because our markings don't align exactly like this:

    https://workshop-manuals.com/toyota/tundra_2wd/v8-5.7l_(3ur-fe)/Page-403001.png

    or this:

    https://workshop-manuals.com/toyota...tion/service_and_repair/components/page_2136/

    I notice it says in that second link that if the timing markings don't align, to continue to rotate...which we are...we've even marked the crankshaft timing gear and camshaft gear to see if their positions ever change with each rotation, and they don't (we thought we were going crazy)...I think I am going crazy.
     
  4. Oct 5, 2021 at 2:48 PM
    #34
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Thanks! I'll check out the toyota video too. I appreciate all of your help!
     
  5. Oct 5, 2021 at 6:10 PM
    #35
    audiowize

    audiowize New Member

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  6. Oct 5, 2021 at 6:54 PM
    #36
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    All I changed out the first time was the primary chain tensioner, I never removed the chain or cam.

    I'll have the chains out tomorrow, life keeps popping up. Was hoping to have the truck done before my leave is up, but don't see that happening!!
     
  7. Oct 6, 2021 at 11:32 AM
    #37
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Hmmm, I'm wondering how badly my truck is screwed...how this could have even happened. Either way, while attempting to take off the chains today, I noticed a ton of tension on the slippers on both sides of the truck. This is after removing both the primary tensioners on each side. There was a bunch of slack on the guide side, but the slippers were pushed all the way up.

    I assumed this had something to do with the teeth jump on the chain, so when I pulled up on the chain by the camshaft, the camshaft moved...this happened on both sides. How the hell does that happen? How did that happen from just changing the tensioners beforehand? I also noticed the slipper on the LH side was cracked...WTF?!

    slipper.jpg
     
  8. Oct 6, 2021 at 5:11 PM
    #38
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    ...Another conundrum, while I'm waiting for the new chains to come in (may still return them, have to wait for new slipper anyway) I thought to try the old chains on the cam, see if everything lines up. Of course the knock pins are just a bit off from each other. I'm assuming if the chain markings are in line with the timing markings on the cams, that I'm good to move the knock pins so that I can get the cams on? Of course I'd make sure that it's like in this picture:

    https://workshop-manuals.com/toyota/tundra_2wd/v8-5.7l_(3ur-fe)/Page-403001.png

    And I've have to be damn sure to rotate the crankshaft 28 times once I have everything lined up to ensure timing is correct...is this correct?

    Thanks!

    EDIT: So this applies to only the passenger side...driver side everything goes on no problem, and I am not able to freely move the cams. It's only the passenger side that I can freely move the cams. That kind of makes me feel better, as I can't mess up the timing, since the drivers side is solid in place. Hopefully this makes sense.

    Double Edit: After more messing around, one of the cams on each side doesn't move, while the other will. I'm not going to mess with the driver side positioning, however, I'm going to move the passenger side cam exhaust so both it and the other cam fit...I think timing, since both exhaust cams moved, will be interesting. My hopes are that if I can get everything to hit their mark, that everything should be good. We will see. I kinda wish I would've never changed the primary tensioners myself. I'm also wondering if maybe there were already issues with the engine for this to happen? Just really confused about the whole ordeal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
  9. Oct 6, 2021 at 5:37 PM
    #39
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Lead foot, left lane, loud stereo

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    Damn it! Performance sure does make it hell to replace a timing set. When my turn rolls around I will consider a for sale sign.
     
  10. Oct 7, 2021 at 9:54 AM
    #40
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    While waiting for the new chains, still not sure if I want to use the old chains, I've had some time to see how everything lines with up with the crank at TDC since both intake cams moved when taking off the chain on each side. I can get both cams on either side to line up with the secondary chain timing marks, however, the primary chain for each side is off TDC (and you can tell from the picture that the cams aren't where they are supposed to be for TDC).

    Where they are:
    thumbnail 2.jpg
    thumbnail.jpg

    Where they are supposed to be:
    3.jpg

    Anything preventing me from hooking up bank 1 to the crankshaft, rotating until the timing mark hits where TDC would be on the crankshaft, then disconnecting and doing the same for bank 2, then just hook up both banks? Is this how terrorists win?

    EDIT: Also, any ideas why the inlet cams would have jumped teeth the way they did? And then jump back once I relieved pressure on them by taking off the chain?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  11. Oct 7, 2021 at 6:36 PM
    #41
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    So after lots of reading, and understanding that the engine is an interference, 4 stroke engine, that it'd be best for me to rotate the crankshaft without the belt on to a position where none of the pistons will hit any of the valves. Folks mention 22.5 deg past TDC...not sure if that number is correct on the 5.7L. Either way, I'll just go slow. Then rotate the cams to hit the timing mark on the crankshaft. I could only find threads about older v8 tundras about lining up mark without belt on: Hopefully easy enough, and still relevant. Chains came in today, slipper will be in tomorrow. Guess I'll just go for it tomorrow.

    EDIT: And another...https://www.tundras.com/threads/timing-belt-replacement-mistake-please-help.21350/

    seems like it's pretty typical to have the cams move based on spring tension from the valve spring. Weird, still a little confusing. Just hoping I didn't jack anything up by trying to start the engine. Guess we will see tomorrow (or the next day depending how the kiddos are, haha).
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  12. Oct 7, 2021 at 7:13 PM
    #42
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Lead foot, left lane, loud stereo

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    I suppose you could have bent a valve maybe, doubt a rod but time will tell. Good Luck to you bro!
     
  13. Oct 8, 2021 at 5:14 AM
    #43
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Thanks, I appreciate it! This thread has gone a bit quiet...I'm hoping it's just because folks are too busy with life, and not just staying quiet because they don't want to say "You're F@CKED!" Haha.
     
    JLS in WA and 2mchfun like this.
  14. Oct 8, 2021 at 1:10 PM
    #44
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    I was able to get my timing to line up again, and understand why the cams jumped after relieving pressure when loosening the chain.

    With everything lined up, I did the 28 rotations, and the primary chains always line up with the marks, however the secondary chains don't. I think I've gone through 72 rotations now, only to see the secondary chains end up in a different spot. It's obvious they haven't jumped any teeth, as the spacing is always the same with them...but I figured i would have seen the primary AND secondary chains line up by now again!
     
  15. Oct 10, 2021 at 11:56 AM
    #45
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Got the truck started! Definitely sounded different, and was idling pretty high. Let it sit for a couple of min, and hooked up my scanner to see if there are any pending CEL's...There's one, for P0116 : Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit Range/Performance Problem. I'll double check the radiator is full. Just glad the truck started, fingers crossed there aren't any further problems!

    EDIT: Geez, of course coolant is leaking from the bottom of the radiator (not the hose) when I trying filling up the radiator. At least I'm getting there...sheesh
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
    2mchfun and JLS in WA like this.
  16. Oct 10, 2021 at 6:16 PM
    #46
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Well thanks to advance auto parts and same day delivery, new radiator is installed. No leaks! Was able to take the truck for a quick drive, and it was so nice to actually have it run, have it run smoothly, and most importantly NO MORE CHAIN SLAP. It must be true what they say about Toyota's and how they're built to last. I could have really jacked up my truck, and I'm certainly not in any position to handle something big like that without it hurting big time, and it's running perfect.

    Thanks to everyone who offered a hand to help too, it was good to know that I could potentially have help or advice if needed.
     
    NueveTundra, 2mchfun and FrenchToasty like this.
  17. Oct 10, 2021 at 8:27 PM
    #47
    NueveTundra

    NueveTundra Internet Certified Forum Mechanic

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    Glad you got it fixed :) :yes: and by the sounds of it its working good and as aspected.

    an yes sometimes forum Threads go quite me personally I'll look but wait for new info or out come till I chime in again to avoid the rabbit hole or distraction. :hattip:
     
  18. Oct 11, 2021 at 9:37 AM
    #48
    TundraTinker

    TundraTinker [OP] New Member

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    Yeah, I get it going down the rabbit hole of everyone offering suggestions. I typically ask for suggestions as someone may offer a logical thought processes that I didn't think of...such as timing potentially off.

    You were right on the money though...it was either spark plugs or timing. Due to my ignorance at the time, and not thoroughly researching before changing out the driver side primary chain tensioner, I didn't know that the cam timing gears could potentially move due to tension and positioning of valve springs/cam shaft "lumps". Thankfully the second time around, the cams jumped again to correct positioning on either side and all I had to do was manually move the cams to match crankshaft timing mark (90 deg after TDC in my case). My main concern was damage to the engine from trying to start the truck with the timing off, but it starts and runs just as good as before, just no chain slapping. Not gonna lie, my hands were shaking a bit before starting the truck!
     

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