Shudder at Low Speed, Low RPM, Old Tranmission questions

Hi, first thread and I need some input on what to do. My '06 Tundra has 241,000 and as far as I know it's transmission has never been serviced (I bought it at 185K and it has a "sealed" transmission).

Backstory: two years ago I felt a shudder at low RPM's (less than 1.5) and low speeds (20–30mph) and then it evened out. I initially looked under the frame to find a broken U-joint. I replaced it but the shudder kept up and I shelved the issue until now. Stupid? Yeah… So I just had my drive-shaft rebuilt to try to fix it: I had the U-joints replaced and the carrier bearing and had it balanced and yet the shudder continues. One important note to include is that when I speed up quickly, there is no shudder at all.

Diagnostics I've heard:
1) maybe they used bad parts to rebuild my drive-line (not convinced on this, they used Spicer bearings)
2) tires could be out of round (but tire guy said that I would feel it continually, not just at low speed)
3) transmission problem and/or torque converte (seems most likely)

Solutions I've Heard:
1) just get a transmission diagnostic and go from there (maybe a really good idea, truly)
2) throw in some additive into the transmission and see what happens (sounds cheap and unlikely to help, maybe to hurt the other seals)
3) drop the pan, replace the 4 qts I lost, the gasket and the filter (hope it helps)
4) flush the transmission (hope it helps)
5) I guess the last option is to put in a new torque converter

Biggest problem and heart of the issue:
The transmission has so many miles on it that guys are hesitant to service it now (I guess they're worried that it wouldn't solve anything and/or would stir up settled junk in the casing and start other problems).

My questions:
1) is this concern legit? why can't I drop the pan, put a new filter in it and in 3,000 miles drop it again for whatever other junk settles out?
2) should I fork out the $150 and wait two weeks in the que to have someone look at it,
3) or should I just try one of the options above hoping that I solve it and don't cause any other issues along the way?

Final request:
If you could include WHY your solution makes sense to you, could you please include that info? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind it and not just "try this"…

Thanks so much!

 

If you accelerate harder does it shudder? Checked the fluid? Happen at low rpm in every gear?

how long has it been happening?

 

If I accelerate hard I feel nothing at all. I haven't check the fluid because the transmission is sealed (there is no dip-stick). It seems that it happens only in 2nd or 3rd gear (not sure which)

 

Any signs of leakage on the trans?

i've got a dipstick, someone else is going to have to know how to check it.

 

nope

 

Clean your throttle body, get a new air filter, top it off with fresh gas & some cleaner, and give it the beans for a couple days. Trans clutches might just be glazed over. Or maybe a sensor is set wrong and its not got enough pressure at lower rpm.

maybe unplug the battery for 15 min or whatever. I dont know how long it takes the transmission controller to reset. Then add the beans.

 

I had that on my 2010 at around100k miles. It often felt like driving over rumble strips at 30-35 while running low rpm. Then it progressed to shuddering randomly and until she downshifts. Stronger acceleration no problem.

Transmission fluid flush at dealer fixed it(on second try). Though yours having much more miles might be problematic. On mine, I figured since it doesn't get better, might as well try something and was glad it helped.

 

Any thoughts on why it took two tries?

 

I'm assuming they got the fluid level wrong. When they gave her back to me, shudder was still there, only softer.

Next day, when I was going somewhere, at a stop sign, she revved up and engaged at like 1500rpm. I called the dealer and they said to bring her to them again. They kept her for a few hours and when they were done, I drove home like a new vehicle.

She's been fantastic ever since. It's been about 3 years and over 30k miles.

 

Interesting. I guess the main concern I have is the mileage difference…I'm glad it worked for you though. And that may be what I end up doing.

 

You can absolutely do a drain/refill as long as you use Toyota WS fluid. Follow the procedure, and afterward you'll be sure that the fluid level is correct. It shouldn't harm anything to do that, and may well solve your problem. While you're underneath, open up the inspection plate to see if the flex plate is cracked.

 

Any thoughts on all the junk that might/will get knocked loose due to the new fluid's detergents? Some say that that worry is a myth but I don't have any experience much less expertise to say one way or another.

 

No, your trans has 60kish miles and the flush is fine. But if it were more than ?150k? And still going, probably not the best idea to mess with it, until you're ready to replace or rebuild it.

 

Politics and religion are kinda banned on this forum, you trying to start a riot here?

Seriously though, this has been covered so before people start arguing, read this: https://www.tundras.com/threads/is-...smission-fluid-important.115675/#post-2975399

This may be helpful too: https://www.tundras.com/threads/tranny-flush.119731/

 

And back to the original question.

You're 2WD. Did you check the tranny crossmember, to make sure all 4 bolts holding the transmission are intact? There was a TSB for this on earlier years, the crossmember would crack on 2WD trucks and bolts fall out. Other year 2WD have seen bolts missing.

This sensation you describe.

• Does it stop/increase/no change if you let off the pedal?
• Does it stop/increase/no change if you tap the brakes, or brake?
• Does it stop/increase/no change if you throw the truck in Neutral and coast?
• Does it stop/increase/no change if you accelerate?

I'm asking these for very specific reason. Any of these could point you in the direction of your actual problem.

The "so many miles on it" thing is bullshit. We have guys on here with 600k+ miles, original transmission.

I'm leaning towards torque converter if none of the above pan out.

 

Probably a non-issue. Drain and re-fill is only going to be maybe 1/3 of the fluid. Toyota once marketed the sealed transmission as a "lifetime" transmission, but the later changed their tune and recommend drain and re-fill after so many miles (60,000? I don't recall. You'll have to google it yourself).

 

I'll be on the cusp in 10k, but might start my d&f's soon. Think i wanna coffee filter the draining to see how that looks, along with the magnet, and when its time, i'll be damned if its not getting replaced with a stick. This truck would be perfect with a clutch pedal.

 

Why yes, I am Christian actually, but if you're good with "hippie powers" then I guess I'll stick to my name
But seriously, thanks for the info. Really very helpful. I'll check all of those things out including the other forum discussions.

 

I picked up on it in the name there, Mr. I Won't Let Temptation Overtake Me. I've read more of the Bible than 99% of my Christian friends or family. But that's not gonna help us here!

The 'hippie powers' quip is a song lyric. Hippies and believers aren't two exclusive entities.

 

Well, I'm glad you noticed it then.
So I've been trying to answer some of the questions you asked above and I've been able to come up with OK answers…

First, all of the bolts to the cross-members are there. Everything looks very clean and snug.

Second, I've honestly found it rather difficult to answer your other questions but I did notice a few things. 1) the shudder is very intermittent (it's even difficult to TRY to make it happen…which I guess is a good thing?) and it seems to happen when the vehicle is warm, not cold. 2) Upon feeling the shudder, when I throw it into neutral, the shudder stops and the rpm's climb. Upon speeding up I climb out of the shudder very quickly; upon braking is slows/stops.

Grateful for your thoughts man. Thanks.

 

So this is interesting to me. And also, maybe good news.

Thinking about what happens when you shift to Neutral, transmission stops actively engaging / putting active load on the driveline, to put it in laymans terms. Although I'm sure someone will say I'm not getting that right. Your driveshaft should continue passively spinning (no active load) because the wheels are moving, thus engaging the gearing in your pumpkin, which then engages the driveshaft.

Normally if I wanted to rule our carrier bearing and/or U-joints and/or driveshaft balance, I'm looking to see if the vibration goes away with pedal actions (i.e. stepping on releasing pedal). If either of those two actions cause the problem to start or go away, I'll go down the rabbithole of trying to figure out if it's one of those three culprits (or maybe ask if someone had a driveshaft out recently and may've clocked them incorrectly during reinstall). That's not saying shifting to Neutral won't also alleviate the symptom, though. But when the symptom shows up when accelerating, or at a specific speed range, and it goes away with one of those two pedal actions it's often one of those three guys.

With it stopping when you shift into Neutral, entering the most-passive-mode-possible, I honestly don't know what it says. But I'm not well at the moment, and have literally been banging my head against a table all day trying to solve an issue at work, so I'm a bit inept on the diagnostic side at the moment.

 

Sorry to hear about the work issues…
I guess to me it would make sense that it's a deal in the trani because of how intermittent it is and that it SEEMS to happen when warm. There is one more detail that I didn't include in the last post and that was that I was hauling 1000 lbs of rock in my bed today and the shudder happened at a higher speed (40 mph). Might that point to the trani since the computer "knows" to shift slower under load? I can't say for certain but that would make sense to me.

 

Yep. That set off my 'driveline' mental alarm too.

 

So just to confirm: I just had the driveshaft rebuilt. Do you think it likley that one or more of my parts is bad? Why driveline instead of trani?

 

This extra actually makes me think the LSPV isn't configured correctly and your rear brakes are grabbing. Unless my brain is seriously off somewhere smoking crack. Which it probably is.

 

I'm still leaning towards transmission because mine was shuddering before she downshifts. It progressed to the point that it would happen at 30, 55, 40, any speed she wanted. Often I'd be driving on flat road and she starts to rumble. Adding gas so she downshifts and starts accelerating was stopping the shudder. Or letting go of gas altogether.

Shudder happens--->slowly apply more gas--->shudder intensifies--->little bit even more gas-----> shudder stronger----->little bit even more gas--->downshift and shudder immediately gone.

 

I have a 2007 4.7 V8 Tundra. I have this same issue. Can anyone advise or do i need a new post? Everything seems to be running fine, not sure how many miles, it says 109k but i believe it has over 300k miles on it after seeing maintenance logs and the carfax. Anyways, the transmission grinds or shudders around 1500 to 2k RPM, applying gas makes it go away. Any tips?

 

You most certainly don't have the same issue.

 

I had that issue in my 2nd gen. Swapped torque converter out and issue resolved!

 

Hey, so I took my truck into the transmission guy and here's what he found. He noted everything works real solidly (He ruled out torque converter) except when there is not enough pressure to when shifting between 3rd and 4th. When I drive it a little more heavy, symptoms are gone and won't even start unless I drive with a softer peddle.

So before I took it to him, I flushed my trani fluid over the course of several weeks, and during the first change I pulled the pan and cleaned it out. The guy asked me if there was a black film in the pan that I had to wash out, and there was. That led him to conclude that one of my clutches is slipping, hence the shudder at low rpm's which goes away with a little more pressure to push the clutches together.

The solution: says he could try a solenoid but not a hopeful fix; 2) rebuild the trani; 3) get a new one. Hope that helps