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Shop/garage

Discussion in 'Home Improvement' started by Tundra2, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Mar 3, 2020 at 4:09 AM
    #1
    Tundra2

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    Hi all! I am considering building a 2-3 car garage with a small living space in it. Lots of shop room, and at least one car lift.

    I was looking for suggestions of things people had done, or didn't do and regretted it. I will post my shop floor plans when I get home. I was thinking upstairs living space to maximize shop floor, and minimize building foot print.

    I may be stupid for even thinking this, but this is new territory for me.

    So here I am asking for ideas, or blessings.
     
  2. Mar 3, 2020 at 8:56 PM
    #2
    OV-1794

    OV-1794 New Member

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    I think it's very smart to build a shop. My wife and I bought a house this past summer and a shop was a requirement. Ended up with a detached 2 story shop. Main downstairs portion is 11-12 ft tall which has proven great for working with full sticks of lumber and sheet goods. Footprint is about 780 sq ft. per story. A great feature the previous owner did was run pvc lines throughout the shop with air hose running inside and one central hub for the compressor.

    Upstairs is plumbed with sink and small hot water heater and is finished. Using it as a gameroom. Only thing I will add upstairs is a half bath.

    Things to consider: epoxy floor, plumb at least upstairs for a bathroom. Run a bigger breaker panel than you need in case you want to add more tools or electrical later. Run plenty of electrical outlets with a 220 in the shop portion. Water plumbed to inside of shop at a minimum. Lots of lighting. Roll up doors for front and back of shop.

    Good luck with the build and can't wait to see the finished product. I'm sure other will come in with better ideas.
     
    1UPPER, snivilous, Boerseun and 2 others like this.
  3. Mar 3, 2020 at 9:09 PM
    #3
    Baja Mike

    Baja Mike Baja Aficionado

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    How hot does it get in your area during the summer? Might want to consider a swamp cooler or if it's the budget A/C. Definitely an exhaust fan on the roof to help get the fumes out.

    Epoxy floor. Sky lights. Plenty of lighting. At least a sink to wash up. A shelf/storage system. Lots of electrical outlets. Plumb it with copper lines for compressed air.

    FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEM!!! Don't want to lose all of that because of a couple stray sparks and some oily rags right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  4. Mar 4, 2020 at 12:02 AM
    #4
    Tundra2

    Tundra2 [OP] Zoinked

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    I'm not so sure about the PVC tubed airlines. I was thinking an air compressor in the corner with pipes running along the walls to hose reels. If I do that correctly it should reach the middle of the shop space no problem. Ball valves before the reels just incase I have to replace, or work on them.

    Enjoying the thought of an epoxy floor, sky lights, and probably a small bathroom in the shop area. Grit soap dispenser in the "washroom" lol. Shelving, and storage are definitely a must.

    Lots of outlets, and doing a larger electrical box than needed is a good idea. If I have room I may have some shop tools around.

    It usually gets about 100-110 on a hot day. Sometimes hotter. I work nights so I'm not 100% of the upper range since I sleep through it. I was thinking having the shop, and house have separate HVAC systems. I just need something in the shop to take the heat, or bite out of the air. In the house part it will be much nicer. Insulate the whole building. Bare sheet metal doesn't really hold that much heat in. LOL.

    I LOVE the fire sprinkler idea, but the water pressure where I am considering building really sucks. Not sure how that would work out. Definitely worth investigating.

    Thanks to both of you so far. I have been considering doing away with the two story idea. In the future I may not be able to do stairs as easily as I can now. The two story idea would definitely decrease my footprint. I'm not 100% sure on how big I want everything yet.

    2 beds, 2 baths (including shop), small office maybe in shop for record keeping, and 2-3 car garage/shop. I am leaning towards a 3 car garage so I can have the car lift in the center bay. I don't want to be working on a car 6 feet in the air, and have something happen, now I've got no where to go because I'm against a wall.

    These are all ideas, and things I am considering at this point. The shop is going to happen sooner rather than later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  5. Mar 4, 2020 at 5:57 AM
    #5
    JohnLakeman

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    Two post lift will require thicker, better-reinforced foundation at the post locations. Four post lift needs only a standard 4" slab foundation, but has less flexibility for all tasks.

    Definitely provide AC. Mini-split heat pump system if you live in a warmer climate. If you're not comfortable working out there, you'll find excuses not to go out.

    Minimum compressor capacity 80 gal tank, 220V 5+ hp, two-stage with minimum 150 psi, 15+ cfm. Compressor manufacturers recommend iron pipe for air piping. PVC is absolutely not safe for air service. Slope piping back toward the compressor, build in 8"-9" risers at each air drop take-off to prevent condensate carry-over, provide header end drain. Provide an automatic compressor tank drain system.

    Consider laying out shop area such that compressor can be isolated from the work space, particularly an area that could be isolated for light spray painting. Commercial compressors are typically not rated for operation in possible flammable or explosive atmospheres. Providing an outside air inlet for compressor is a good idea anyway. Creating a spray paint area will likely require a rigid partition (poly drop cloths will not work), plus provision for powerful ventilation to draw out paint fumes for visibility (portable fans mounted in roll door openings?). Air drop inside this area should have secondary pressure regulator and micron particle filter. Breathing air should be an independent supply with full-face mask.

    Electrical outlets have been covered.

    Provide speaker wire for desired locations.

    Ideal lighting is to string two spaced rows of 8' fluorescent tube units per work bay.

    Work bench area with thick wood counter top (thick solid core doors work well) built over generous kitchen base cabinets, wall cabinets above. Electrical outlets spaced every 4'-6' behind. Counter top covered in thick rubber flooring, galvanized sheet, or laminate (easy to clean, resistant to grease and oil spills).
     
    snivilous and Tundra2 [OP] like this.
  6. Mar 4, 2020 at 6:28 AM
    #6
    Tundra2

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    I am trying to figure sizing of building. I have a friend who has a 30X40. Which is an adequate 3 car garage with room for storage, and some work in my opinion.

    I am thinking if I double the length, and use part of the building for living. 60X40 I could have a bay in the back of the building with two post lift. Mainly shop space, plenty of storage, and small living quarters.

    The sizing thing is hard to get in my noggin.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  7. Mar 4, 2020 at 6:30 AM
    #7
    Ckatz53

    Ckatz53 Newish

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    Subd. We are looking to buy land and build a house. A four car detached garage is a must for me (1965 Mustang, 1974 Monte Carlo, my bikes, and obviously the Tundra). Be cool to see some ideas when this thread takes off.
     
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  8. Mar 4, 2020 at 6:32 AM
    #8
    Tundra2

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    I was thinking of 100 gallon air compressor. I completely agree with PVC piping NG for air. I work as a maintenance tech. We have piping in the ceiling of the plant EVERYWHERE that has 100 psi constantly. It's super handy.

    I'm not sure how much painting I will be doing. I will keep this in mind though.

    As far as speaker wire I was possibly thinking bluetooth system to eliminate as much wiring as possible. Maybe.

    I had planned on lighting with LED lights. Definitely similar in style to T8 fixtures with better efficiency.

    Work benches I agree with you completely on.
     
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  9. Mar 4, 2020 at 6:36 AM
    #9
    Tundra2

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    Thank you, and I wish you well on your endeavors. I am building on my Mom, and Pops land. I want to have more privacy but still stay close to home. My older brother is autistic. He can live on his own, but cannot drive or work. Which is why I am building here.

    If I continued living where I am I would have to make 2 grocery trips, and take him to the places he wants to go. For now he is being taken care of by mom, and pop. One day they will not be here, and I will need to be close.

    Looking at where I plan to build I see everything I want, but I am greatly discouraged. There is piping under where I want to build, and is partially down a slope. There are very few flat-ish places to be had here. Most flood with 8" of rain.

    Very discouraging. I will persevere though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  10. Mar 4, 2020 at 6:49 AM
    #10
    JohnLakeman

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    If you're ever going to do any painting inside the space, you have to think about it up front...hard to retrofit.

    Bluetooth and LED. Shows how outdated I am. Yes, I completely agree. LEDs will be a great choice if you can get enough light out of them. I have a three car garage, with two ~24' strings of T8 tubes per bay. Fluorescents are more efficient than similar incandescent capacity, but if I turn on two bays of those fluorescents, the meter is visibly turning faster. I can prepare for bitchin' about the electric bill. :D
     
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  11. Mar 4, 2020 at 7:26 AM
    #11
    Tundra2

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    Mom, Pop, and older brother have requested a basement large enough for us/them to hunker in during a storm. Adding yet another layer of complexity.
     
  12. Mar 4, 2020 at 8:46 AM
    #12
    snivilous

    snivilous New Member

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    First, something I haven't seen said is a DRAIN for the shop. I just bought a house at the end of last year that has a shop and there's no drain, and I don't think there's really an effective way to add one. That'd be my biggest thing in general, plan out all utilities running into it. All my shop has is electricity, and granted water and gas won't be a huge deal to run to it, but they won't be able to be integrated into the slab and like I said I can't add a drain inside the shop.

    Since everyone else has kind of covered the other bases, sizing: I was renting a shop before this that was 50x53 and had an office and bathroom and single garage door. It was really nice. The biggest issue was the single garage door meant you had to reshuffle things a lot and keep that main bay open to pull things in and out. You could stuff a lot of vehicles in there with a lot of room to work around each one. I added some stairs to get above the office and my buddy had a bed and computer and stuff up there. That was 2650sqft total, with the office taking up probably 12x20. There was also a bathroom in the corner with a little 5 gallon water heater that was nice.

    [​IMG]

    The new shop at my house is 40x60 with I'd guess 18ft ceilings at the lowest. Two garage doors on either end, one 14ft and one 16ft as I recall. Much much nicer layout since you can pull in from four directions, or if you have a trailer pull straight through. I only have a half acre, so there's gates behind each door at the fence to pull through onto the back street. This shop is 2400sqft, but doesn't have the office or bathroom so overall has more actual shop space than the last shop. For me personally, after sharing shops with friends, using my dad's during the summer in college, having storage units, etc. I think the 2000sqft+ size is really nice. It gives you lots of room to grow, and to be a slob. Which sounds bad, but for instance I don't have any shelving since I'm waiting to insulate the shop and don't want to mount to the walls yet. But the place is so big it gives me freedom to just store all my tires and random shit in one bay, and still easily have enough room to pull the Tundra in to work on, have my long term buggy project, and to store my FJ40 out of the weather, all without going to much effort to move stuff around. My plan is to eventually put two lifts in, one for long term projects and one for quick stuff like maintenance. The shop being bigger than I realistically need makes it more fun, less worry of where to store stuff, how to stuff trucks in, how do I reorganize because my friend is coming over with his truck--none of that, just oh we need to fit another truck in? Let me just move the welder out of the way and scoot the dirt bike over and we can fit another truck in.

    This is probably 1/3 of the shop in one photo. As you said, it's hard to convey size. But there's half the shop behind the camera to the right, and an entire pallet rack and a table with hobby machining equipment and a fridge and compressor just to the left of the camera.

    [​IMG]

    I think 30x40 is a good size (excluding using any vertical space), but having double that just gives you more freedom and space to not feel cramped. I built a racecar in my buddy's shop and my dad's shop, and usually had maybe 3ft around the truck usually to build it unless I could convince people to move their trucks out. That sucked ass. Now I can have a lot of projects, and enough room to wander around with tubes of steel and not worry about bumping into everything. Makes it more fun, and I can add more projects and not worry if I'll have room to keep them. I'd say build the shop as big as you have the room/can afford. Better to have too much and not care, than too little and always be cramped.
     
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  13. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:02 AM
    #13
    1BadTundra

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    This is my 24x36. Nice space, just wish I would've went deeper, like 40'x36. Definitely better than working in the driveway tho, cant complain.
     
  14. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:06 AM
    #14
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 What's a Dickfir?

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    Have @1UPPER build you monster man cave/workshop!
     
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  15. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM
    #15
    801Tundra

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    What are you planning to do for insulation? I have a similar shop (60x40) in northern UT. I'd like to go the spray foam route, but not looking to get a second mortgage to pay for it lol.
     
  16. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:17 AM
    #16
    Baja Mike

    Baja Mike Baja Aficionado

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    Unless you plan on washing your vehicles in the shop, there's no need for a drain. You don't want to accidentally knock over a drum full of gas/oil/coolant and have it go down the drain into the local sewer system. You want standing fluids to make for an easy clean up. Keep a bunch of kitty litter in there and you'll be good.
     
  17. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:24 AM
    #17
    801Tundra

    801Tundra New Member

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    Here's my 60x40 right after electrical and lift went it.... Previous owner built the shop. It was definitely a DIY, so it's not perfect. But it's mine and I love it.

    Tundra up on the lift for it's first oil change.

    IMG_1459.jpg
    59312330293__889672C0-090D-4B14-B5EC-2A5EF74D94D0.jpg
     
  18. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:31 AM
    #18
    Prostar 190

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    One thing I would do for sure is put white metal ceiling in you get a lot better light reflection so you can see everything. And like someone else said I always put a drain in because I like to wash my vehicles inside out of the sun and cold.
    MVIMG_20191117_112639.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  19. Mar 4, 2020 at 9:31 AM
    #19
    snivilous

    snivilous New Member

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    I looked at spray foam and concluded the same thing haha. I found a local guy who has like 2" foam board and the vapor barrier and he says has a R value of 34 which apparently is really good. He roughly quoted me $7k in materials to insulate the whole thing including the ceiling and he could show me how to do it myself, or another $4k for his guys to do it and they could do it in 3-4 days. I called around to other places but no one said they'd do metal buildings, so either spray foam or this guy. Right now I'm planning on having him do it, and wait until summer or fall. I went to school in Logan, so I know your pain of the cold, and the metal building seems to be colder than it is outside even when it's wickedly cold out! I had to put RV heater lines in my plasma table to keep it from freezing lol
     
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  20. Mar 4, 2020 at 12:28 PM
    #20
    Omohundro

    Omohundro 2018 Not a Pro

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    What ever you do have fun doing it and count yourself lucky you get to have a shop. Mine brings me joy every time I crack the door open.
     
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  21. Mar 4, 2020 at 12:39 PM
    #21
    Northbound Train

    Northbound Train Masshole

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    I have a 24x52 garage with upstairs. One thing I am very happy with is the radiant floor heating. I have a lot of electrical outlets and I still wish I had more. Install lots of lighting! I ran 1/2" copper along one wall with 3 drops for compressed air, that's handy so I'm not dragging long hoses around. I put the windows up high so anyone who ventured on my property couldn't easily see what was inside. Good luck!
     
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  22. Mar 5, 2020 at 4:03 AM
    #22
    Tundra2

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  23. Mar 24, 2020 at 7:19 PM
    #23
    Tundra2

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    4fb9c08afd61400540f0219df07033a54afe7c95a7c67df0d1e8d6f67d242079_1.jpg.jpg

    This is definitely going in the shop once funds are stacked, and building is erected.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  24. May 8, 2020 at 4:07 PM
    #24
    SMK Shoe

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    Grab a can of florescent marking spay paint and tape measure. Lay the whole thing out in the yard. Paint in rooms, lift, workbench, everything. Then you can walk around it a bit and see if it works or doesn't.
     
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  25. May 8, 2020 at 4:11 PM
    #25
    Tundra2

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    That right there is a million dollar idea.
     
  26. May 8, 2020 at 4:19 PM
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    SMK Shoe

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    Did it awhile back and is gonna cost me a good chunk of extra money. I thought a 24x26 would make a nice workshop. NOPE, makes a nice two car garage to park in but not work in. Money was saved to start building. Now going with a 26 or 28 by 40 and a second story. Other than concrete work, doing it mostly myself ( SIL for manual labor). Lots more planning and figuring going that size.
     
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  27. May 8, 2020 at 4:20 PM
    #27
    SMK Shoe

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    #9822
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    539
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    First Name:
    Paul
    Central North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra TRD DC
    Step Bars, Rear Swaybar, 2,000 Watt Amp, 2-10" Subs, new door speakers, De-Badged, Hondo vent mounts, Calipers, 6112/5100 shocks, SPC UCA's, Front bumper, Bed Bars, bed rack, Fuel Rims
    Friggin love that banner.
     
    Tundra2 [OP] likes this.
  28. May 8, 2020 at 4:22 PM
    #28
    Tundra2

    Tundra2 [OP] Zoinked

    Joined:
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    #25875
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    Noah
    Western Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    '02 Tundra V6 SR5 '08 Sequoia V8 SR5
    Deer guard, LED everything.
    I am still saving money, and am on the fence now about whether I want to build on mom and pops place OR if I want to buy/build away from here.

    Being laid off due to RONA is not helping.
     
  29. May 8, 2020 at 4:33 PM
    #29
    SMK Shoe

    SMK Shoe Not New Member

    Joined:
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    Member:
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    Messages:
    539
    Gender:
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    First Name:
    Paul
    Central North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra TRD DC
    Step Bars, Rear Swaybar, 2,000 Watt Amp, 2-10" Subs, new door speakers, De-Badged, Hondo vent mounts, Calipers, 6112/5100 shocks, SPC UCA's, Front bumper, Bed Bars, bed rack, Fuel Rims
    I would build it on a separate parcel of land. Even if Mom and dad sell you a chunk of theirs to build on. That help's keep things cut and dry in the future. Your building, on your land with separate insurance and titled in your name. You stated your parents were older and god forbid any medical issue's arose then your building would be considered theirs since it's on their property. Or if someone got hurt at your shop, they couldn't go after your parents for $$$. Hate having to think that way, but times are different than when I grew up.
     
    Tundra2 [OP] and Baja Mike like this.
  30. May 8, 2020 at 5:18 PM
    #30
    Tundra2

    Tundra2 [OP] Zoinked

    Joined:
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    Member:
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    First Name:
    Noah
    Western Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    '02 Tundra V6 SR5 '08 Sequoia V8 SR5
    Deer guard, LED everything.
    You are correct. I hate thinking that way as well... but times now are different than they used to be. Like I said earlier, I'm on the fence about whether I want to build here or not.

    I have been eyeballing parcels of land about an hour away with an industrial base near by. Ergo, jobs. We are both industrial maintenance techs.

    The county in which they reside is quiet, and peaceful. Perfect for them, but commuting an hour for work has taken its toll on Pops after 16 years now. I drive the same, and have for 4 years out of county/state for work. He drives across 3 counties, and so do I. The school system is the largest employer in the county. (750)

    Not sure I want that kind of wear and tear on my vehicles, or body (deer, falling asleep, etc)

    Collisions/accidents on the roads we drive on are usually fatal.
     

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