Schooled by a Firestone Alignment Tech

I would like to narrow down and/ or learn what is affecting this pull. Before I tried to ask if he could remove some caster, he stopped me and said nope... nothing can be changed. I actually like to learn as much as I can from anybody with advice on anything mechanical. Probably why it tin a year researching lift options before pulling the trigger.

 

nothing can compare to the horrors of NTB

 

So I haven't felt bump steer since I had a non-power steering jeep (actually drive without my thumbs around the wheel because of this to this day) but that's similar to what I feel.
If the road pitches to the right, the truck pulls to the right harder than it used to before the lift/tires/wheels and bumps are felt more in the steering wheel. I'd say it pulls to the left on a left pitched road, but that's not the case, it stays straight. If the tires are not to blame, would caster be the major driver with this?

 

Just needs more caster on passenger side. Easy fix.

 

So would raising the caster on the passenger side also raise the camber?
The number I originally gave the shop was highest caster without going above .2-.3 camber. This time I tired to get the .5 higher on the passenger but the tech was throwing in the towel saying it can't be done.

 

Playing with your caster will effect your camber. Tech just needs to know what he doing. I'd raise my camber and caster with my front passenger side cam. Then adjust my rear passenger cam so that my camber lowers and caster raises. Set my tow then test drive it. But you most definitely need more caster. You want that tire to lead. Special with bigger tires and crowns on streets. Good luck!

 

The alignment looks beautiful on paper tho. But that's not always that case.

 

Describe your “pull”. When you let go of the steering wheel , the wheel turns to the right? Or the truck drifts right? The numbers look great. You are a lil more caster on the right wheel which is normal for road crown. If the steering wheel stays straight and truck drifts to the right it’s a non centered steering wheel with TOE adjustments.

 

I agree with @15Yota. SPC’s fixed mine. So did new camber bolts since mine were stripped out by trying to get the alignment good with stock UCA’s with my lift.

 

Just adjust your toe a little to get the vehicle to drive straight. He probably didn't settle the suspension between adjustments. You can loosen the lock nuts on your tie rod ends and adjust a 1/4 turn in on the right and out on the left. You'll be gtg.

 

First, tell the tech to mind his damn business and do the work you are paying for. Then go to the service manager and explain to him that it is your truck and you want it aligned properly and that the tech should shut his mouth and do what he is told. Third, if that doesn't work, go to a different Firestone. The alignment is valid at all locations in the USA. This is so irritating. Ugh. Am I paying you for a service? Then perform the service and do what I am paying for, not your rhetoric.

 

I would advise against adjusting the toe blind. This a good way to cause your tires to feather and wear prematurely. Making the adjustments described above will correct and offset steering wheel and not a pull.

 

I stopped going to Firestone for alignment because they always acted like dickheads. I had an unlimited deal for 2 years I think, used it a few times as I dialed in height and changed parts out. Last 2 times they were treating me like I didn't know anything about cars. Never went back.

Went to a cheap spot once, I was a little surprised when the guy was "done" in 20 minutes. As I was paying I looked at the specs, he only did the toe. I told him take it back and do the camber and caster, he claimed they can't be adjusted on Toyota.
I asked if he wants me to show him how. He didn't like that. His price was $50 but I slapped a $10 on the counter and said be happy for that.

Went to 4wp, they're pricey and absolutely no warranty but they get it spot on every time with no fuss. Once your suspension isn't stock a lot of alignment shops seem to struggle.

 

I have done all my own alignments on an alignment rack since I put my lift on. Toyotas do not have a way to adjust thrust angle on the rear end, therefore you have to make minuscule changes in the toe to correct it. The difference of a quarter turn is nothing in reality going from .11 to .13 or to .09 is only a couple 10ths or 100ths of a degree. This is why there is an acceptable range for alignment settings.

 

It’s probably good at any Firestone, are there any other locations nearby?

 

This and this^^^^^

 

Being all in the green means nothing. That screenshot can be fudged by leaning on a tire or suspension part right before the "tech" hits print. Find a shop or dealership with a Hunter Hawkeye alignment setup. Aligning toyotas can be very difficult if the lower control arm bolts and bushings are seized..common issue. Being an 18' it should be easy to set straight..just takes a technician who takes pride in his work.

 

Ahahaha, great quote from a great movie

 

Leave caster as close to stock that will make the drive better the camber is what needs to be adjusted to have a total cross camber of .7 or more to account for road crown/drift to the right it will not wear tires with that set up

 

I recently had Costco give me similar BS when mounting 35s on RW wheels. They claimed, being out of recommended BFG and Toyota spec, I'll slip a bead instantly and damage the wheels and potentially the truck...guaranteed. I've had this setup before without issue....they didn't care. I called around and felt good with the mechanics ability to converse with me about it all at Les Schwab. Took my truck there for all the work, even after purchasing the tires at Costco. TPMS, mount, balance, and 2 full size spares. The alignment tech had a Jeep on 40s, which convinced me. In the end, I'm absolutely pleased with their work and would recommend them to anyone.

 

Pos .6-9 left front and around -.3,-.4 rf camber should correct it and still stay within factory spec wich means nothing with lifts. Showing green is great for a complete oe setup

 

OP, your alignment isn’t bad, tech probably did the best he could looking at the numbers. Save $ for upper control arms imo..

 

uppers wont fix the road crown drift toyotas are prone to it most come from the factory with over .7pos total camber. with that it will pull slightly to the left to prevent the vehicle especially lifted tundras from pulling right.

 

From what I remember while working as an alignment tech, a vehicle will pull towards most neg caster and most pos camber. Road crown (the slope of the road) will affect it. Also tire pull, even with new tires. Try crossing the two front tires and see if it makes a difference. Also may try to drive on a residential street with little traffic. If it pulls to the right, wait until it is safe and drive the opposite direction on the same side of the road and see if it pulls left.

 

Yes, that camber Toyota uses for road crown is also why every stock Tundra kills the outer tire edge. We don’t do that with lifted trucks..., and the uppers allow me to align better in every way, including road crown. If you aligned a lifted truck to your recommendation, it would kill tires.

 

it would not kill the tires we do 10 to 15 lifts a month as well as service many lifted truck they wear outer edge from bad body rool and that is primarily on 2010 body styles

 

If you just put a lift in I'm guessing you got new tires too? I would atleast check the pressure in them. That's always the first thing I do before aligning a vehicle. All the numbers look good for your alignment and bad front end components would give different readings after jousting the vehicle. Another thing to take into consideration is about the facility, was the alignment rack next to an open door or a ventilation system? Did the tech need to heat anything up like tie rods to adjust them? I've watched numbers move from green to red on the screen as parts cooled, and the same with any breeze blowing on the vehicle. Lifts done correctly keep the same geometry as stock so what the tech was saying to you doesn't make much sense. I've put 6 inch lifts on brand new jeeps with 35x12.50 tires and had them go down the road like a stock ride. It's all in taking your time and knowing how to properly align a vehicle. Hopefully some of this can help.

 

I don't agree with his position. The manufacturer's design is not always the best, but I can see where he's coming from.

Generally speaking, it's his job to fix it when it's broken and it takes more mental effort to do that when it's no longer an OEM setup. He can't just use a vehicle specific troubleshooting guide like he normally does so modified vehicles are just more work for the same pay to him.

Add to it that most people who alter cars aren't smarter or better trained than the manufacturer's engineers and most of the time people who modify cars do make things worse in the longrun.

Even with all of that, these are our trucks. We get to make them fit our needs regardless of what anyone else thinks.