SAVE THE TUNDRA V8

Same in Texas. The heat is brutal and unless you live in a city everything is a good drive.

 

Or.. the TTV6 will get so much better gas mileage, much more power, and much better carrying ability and tow ratings very few people will want the old second gen v8 just because it has a V8.

But Some will always have interest. Specially if they sell for a lot less. I know if I was buying a Tacoma today I would want a 2nd gen because the motor was better. But they screwed the 3rd gen Tacoma up. I don’t think there screwing up the new tundra. We shall see soon.

 

Not at all! Good discussion for sure. I'd guess that Ford/Chevy/etc are able to offer multiple options because their MSRPs are so high. Sure, every year they knock prices down $10k in December, but only then does their pricing match the Tundra, at least in my experience in 2019.

In 2019 I was cross shopping half tons from the big 3 w/ a few options against the Tundra SR5, the MSRP on the domestics were all $10k higher than the Tundra, but the incentive price brought them all in line.

So higher starting prices, plus higher volumes than the Tundra, makes me think that the domestics have an easier time scaling out big options. Also a priority thing, trucks are the domestics' bread and butter. Toyota's is the Camry and Rav4

 

Let me fix this for you, "today's electric vehicle isn't suitable for x place due to x weather, distance, etc.". Folks always compare today's tech with today's problems. Today's electric technology is just starting to walk and I'm sure engineers are working on solving your scenario with tech you or I don't know much about.

 

I hope they do as well. Or at least a better v8 option. I have heard they are going to offer 3 engine options. Assuming one isn’t the all electric then it would seem it could be a v8 or a non turbo v6 I guess for whoever those weirdos are who like underpowered trucks.

 

but domestics usually are intended to sell for 10k less then the msrp to make customers feel like they got a good deal.

 

It makes financial sense for the big 3 because they sell 10 times as many trucks as Toyota does.

 

Yeah that makes sense. I assumed their MSRP are always higher just because they all have way more “bells and whistles” then Toyota but you’re speculations also make sense

 

Nah, most consumers do not know what they want. Once everyone sees the actual new Tundra and its capabilities, everyone will be on it, like smartphone taking over the old phones.

 

I see what you’re saying, but to me, the big 3 sell 10 times as many trucks maybe because they have 10 times as many options to purchase than Toyota does.
Like if Toyota offered a V6 and V8 option then boom, “double” the supply so “double” the sales. Idk, I’m not the most educated individual in a business sense so I could be way off base here.

 

Now THIS makes the most sense to me. Haha. Bye bye V8 if that’s the real reason

 

shady. Lol

 

Would you buy the current V8 in the new truck if there was a gas guzzler tax associated with it? At what point would that extra cost become not worth your consideration?

Remember we aren’t requesting a product with certain features in an environment where the only concerned parties are the manufacturer and the customers. Regulators are also involved and they love to regulate, and we have foolishly given them more and more authority to make decisions for us about what we can freely exchange our money for.

Toyota has to make decisions based on delivering what most of their customers want, and deliver those features and capabilities as best they can while avoiding regulatory issues, fines, legal liabilities, and observing fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders.

I would love to see a fire breathing 1000HP 8.0L V8 with direct injection and twin turbos in a Tundra, with a trophy truck chassis and AWD.

Not many people would buy one because it would get horrendous fuel economy and be expensive. R&D costs would be bonkers, never showing a profit. Insurance companies would hate them so rates would be stupid. Regulatory agencies like EPA would count every one sold against Toyota’s CAFE numbers. Liability lawyers would be waiting in the wings to sue Toyota every time some bucks up Billy Bob wrapped his new 1000HP truck around an oak tree because it would be a widow maker for all but skilled drivers who respect the power… not Billy Bobs.

 

Therein lies the problem. Toyota could make some improvements to the 3UR-FE and improve fuel efficiency “a little bit” as you put it. That is probably pretty accurate, they could improve it a little bit. Say put D4S injection on a new cylinder head, and implement a displacement on demand system. Maybe they get it from 13/17MPG to 15/20MPG in front of the new 10 speed auto. The new cylinder head, direct and port fuel injection, high pressure fuel pump, and hardware for the displacement on demand system add tens of millions of dollars to R&D and certification costs. Plus they add significantly to the cost of the engine, probably a solid $2500-$3000.

Now we have an engine that is much more expensive, more complicated, and still not as efficient or power dense as the TTV6. Sooner than later the V8 even with improvements is not going to cut it for CAFE standards, where the TTV6 will. Toyota is loathe to modify engines once they’re in production, and clearly none too fond of changing engine offerings once a vehicle is in production. This is especially true with trucks where we have observed Toyota intends to keep building the same thing for at least a decade at a time.

With that in mind Toyota is probably not at all interested in spending all that money to develop a new engine that will have a very short production run within a product line they plan to produce for a long time period.

 

With a load V8 is more efficient, we all know how Toyota gonna tune that tranny and with a v6 there’s just not enough power without boost.

 

It always strikes me funny how some people will build an argument with extremism to get a point across. Nobody is wishing Toyota would come out with monster trucks.
The gas guzzler tax thing has nothing to do with the actual mpg of any auto; it's a way of squeezing the public for more money.

Toyota is marching along with all other auto manufactures in the gilded guise of making the Feds happy about smog production. Some are stupid enough not to understand that when you force induct fuel / air mixture into any engine size, your just packing it with more gas.
So, a normally aspirated V8 in some cases can use less fuel than a twin turbo V6. It's a very easy physics problem to understand. Smaller engine == lighter weight /GVW = better fuel economy.

Force feed that smaller motor (with more fuel) should give a better power to weight ratio of the vehicle IF done properly, which Toyota thinks it has done. Reliability for a setup like this under specifically imposed conditions remains to be seen.
Now I personally have experienced the wrath of a moderator twice in my short time with this site due to a few comments from me that were deemed to be political. These comments have caused me to have more time kicked off the site (2 months) than the total time I've been here.
I can respect that, though I feel it was quite a strong slap on the wrist, but I digress.

IF carbon emissions are the prime focus here, why doesn't the world focus on the biggest carbon emitters, which are two nations. I have seen data that shows if these two cut back by 50%, the world wouldn't need to concern itself about auto emissions.
Anyway, Toyota will do what Toyota wants just like Ford V6'd the Raptor. Lets see how it goes as I'm sure they will sell these new packages to lots of people.

My guess is that Toyota has done their DD and found that sales should be ok. Who knows, maybe with enough complaining, Toyota will give us an optional V8 / heavy duty package with a supercharged version for the inevitable up-charge in price.

 

BLASPHEMY! .... BURN THE WITCH!!!!!

 

So what? Toyota is well aware that under load a larger displacement naturally aspirated engine will burn less fuel to make the same power as a smaller displacement forced induction engine. I think we are all aware of that.

We are talking about privately owned and operated 1/2 ton pickup trucks. Not Class 8 trucks, medium duty vocational trucks, or even 3/4 ton and 1 ton pick up trucks. The vast majority of miles 1/2 ton owners put on are not loaded, or towing miles.

So Toyota and other manufacturers are perfectly happy to have the trucks burn a little more fuel for that 2% of the time the truck is towing or hauling, so the other 98% of the time it burns less fuel. If you can’t see the logic in that you either tow and haul a lot, in which case a 1/2 ton is the wrong truck to buy, or you are not making decisions based on realistic use.

 

I work six miles from my house. 12 miles round trip 5 days a week. I tow my boat to the lake on weekends at about 165 mile round trip, often Saturday and Sunday. You do the math.

You actually sound like a Toyota rep desperately trying to push the new truck on forums.

 

Your anecdotal use does not equal the typical use of me, or a lot of other people.

My commute is 48 miles round trip. I don’t tow frequently. So we have a different use scenario.

Toyota is evidently unwilling to satisfy or attempt to satisfy everyone. I also notice that a lot of forum users here are not able to recognize an argument posed not from personal preference, but from the possible or likely point of view of a third party. I know that reading is hard, and that without constant disclaimers many of you become confused. So let me break this down:

I like V8’s, I would like to see a V8 option. I am also trying to explain why a manufacturer like Toyota is unlikely to continue to offer larger naturally aspirated engines going forward.

It sounds like Toyota isn’t going to be interested in your business anymore because they’re not going to offer a truck that fulfills your specific needs. This is unfortunate but they’ve made it abundantly clear they believe in a one size fits all approach to pickup trucks. This is probably why they are one of the slowest sellers in the segment, being handily outsold by most of their competitors. It’s going to be time for a lot of Tundra owners who want V8’s to move on to other manufacturers.

 

Or pick up a 2021 NOW....

 

If you can find one and that’s what you want, better start looking.

 

Why do you have a truck? Sounds like a passenger car would help you save the planet.

 

Look all I want is a truck that looks like my tundra and has twice the horsepower with ten times the mileage.

And a fucking auto up driver side window.

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK TOYOTA!?!?

 

I think you're right in theory but most truck drivers seem to be very brand loyal and would never buy a truck that "isn't American" so Toyota would be wasting money offering options that would sell in lower numbers.

 

I have a truck because it’s useful for hauling stuff, home ownership projects are tough to tackle if the trunk of a car is all I have to work with. I also enjoy hunting. Forest service and logging roads are a lot easier to manage with ground clearance. Ever put a dead animal carcass in the trunk of a car? Not exactly an odor that’s easy to get out.

Plus I live in a rural area, the county and state don’t do much snow removal and I work on call. So any given winter I’m driving that commute in snow deep enough to benefit from more ground clearance than a passenger car provides.

Sorry you’re so upset by my devil’s advocate argument in favor of Toyota’s business decision. Good luck with your future vehicle needs.

 

Very fair point.

 

Hell, I just want the auto-up driver's side window. I'm okay with my 15.8 mpg and 380ish hp.

 

So the reveal just happened and we just, V6 Twin Turbo or the same with a electric motor to make it a hybrid. No mileage calcs release yet. Still pining for a V8...



437 HP/583 Lb.-Ft.
i-FORCE MAX

389 HP/479 Lb.-Ft.
i-FORCE

12,000 Lbs. 138
Max Towing

 

The 2021 Tundras just went up in resale value. Reason? The 2022s....
Toyota you blew it with the new power train dudes.