Resolved: Installing Big Sert for TB idler pulley bracket

And I can’t recall if this is part of the oil pump bracket or the block itself?

 

I tried that before, and it did work.

The concern was that the tensioner pulley being slightly off perpindicular might allow the TB to work its way off of the passenger cam pulley since both it and the tensioner pulley neither have flanges like the water pump pulley and the drivers cam pulley

 

Oil pump

 

I think it may be time.

 

He could replace the oil pump and be done with this, my worry is, replace the oil pump only to find it was the pulley/tensioner that’s the problem

 

no I eliminated that with the testing I did on the aluminum block. When I had the sert installed perpendicular, it moved freely. When I installed a test heli coil slightly off perpendicular it had the behavior it does now

I also confirmed by trying the old bracket and the new bracket with identical results

 

Sucks man. But it is what it is. You’ve gained new skills with the heli-coil insert and extraction and the Big-Cert insert. I would either washer it and see how it behaves, or more likely do the oil pump replacement.

 

Yes I have no qualms about doing a Heli coil or a time-sert install now. It is a breeze as long as you have full access


It looks like an Aisin oil pump, assuming that is the recommended brand, is just a little over $125. Obviously, the labor is where it gets tough But a fair portion of that is for the timing belt removal, etc., and mine would be easier since it's a 2WD.

going to have to research this. I'm to the point where I wish I could just pay someone to do that but my experience with auto shop repairs has been miserable the past few years

 

I’ve popped in and read a few times but really didn’t have anything helpful to add. Until now, maybe.

This picture shows that the face of the oil pump surface isn’t flat. Outside of your timesert you can see the slightly recessed step the diameter of the spacer.

Whether it was caused previously by over torquing (thus the original heli-coil), from fretting if the spacer bolt wasn’t tightened enough, or if it’s from the crooked heli-coil, that’s tough to say, but it does appear to be fairly uniform depth around.

Since any attempt the resurface that “flat” surface in place would make it less flat, my suggestion would be to take the spacer bolt to a machine shop and have them cut the shoulder (tensioner side of the “head”) back a few thou on a lathe, effectively making the spacer longer.

If you have calipers you can use the depth rod to try to get a measurement of the step in the aluminum to know how much to modify the spacer.

 

thanks for the input. That's a great idea. I had thought of doing that to the engine side of the bracket Which would accomplish the same thing but your idea would be even better

However, that ring is not from the spacer. The spacer covers the entire milled area of that area on the pump. The ring is from tightening down the bolt/shaft without the spacer so that I could visually inspect for a gap on one side, indicating it was not perpendicular

I believe most of that ring is oil/grease. If it is not totally flat, it is not measurable judging from running my fingernail across that ring

I have definitively confirmed that it is due to it not being perpendicular. I triple confirmed it by putting pressure on that shaft/bolt in the opposite direction of the lean to about the same distance that it is off from being perpendicular. When I did this, the bracket moved freely as designed But still, your idea would work, however for it to work I believe you would have to mill too much off of that bolt/shaft head

I have no doubt the original thread was damaged when they tightened it down too much considering the housing is aluminum and more easily stripped. It is only supposed to be tightened to about 38 ft lbs. I've been observing several shops and I don't believe they torque appropriately for most of their work unless it is inside the engine. They mostly use their impact gun and tighten it down until they're satisfied


bolt/shaft installed with the spacer pictured. You can see it covers up the entire milled surface of the oil pump:



The old surface after I did a quick clean. It's a little less obvious now. The bracket bolt/shaft definitely left a mark. It's just not measurable



if a machine shop could mill the spacer at an angle to compensate, like these shims to level a suspension component angle, I think that would be safe enough to work

 

I revisited the possibility of using a washer which worked when I tested it with the Heli coil. I do not believe the hole at the current angle being slightly off from perpendicular would move the belt toward the engine as I first thought Considering the slight angle of the bolt and where the timing belt comes in contact I'm confident it would be less likely to allow the belt to walk toward the outside as it did with the heli coil, but I'm still not positive I would trust it

i'm torn, but no doubt the best option would be to replace the oil pump

 

Just tossing this out there, but if you have a bench grinder or better yet a belt or disc sander and milled a flatwasher at an angle, maybe it would allow you to compensate? I realize we're talking about fingerprint removal level shit here, and trying to find a washer that thin could be a bitch. I'm otherwise at a loss. I don't know enough about machining and fabrication to make other suggestions. I can't help but think a machinist would have some trick up their sleeve, like using a more malleable metal that would potentially shore things up when tightened down. but I'm at a loss.

I know you just want to get this done and put it behind you. Props and respect for duking it out this long. You're right: A local shop would probably fuck this up.

 

GMTA???

along those lines and also somewhat similar to @landphil 's suggestion, I was just testing to see how large of a washer I needed for it to move freely. My thought was taking it to a machine shop and getting them to grind down the spacer at a 45' angle so that one side is thinner the amount of the thickness of this washer, which allowed it to move freely. I torqued it down about 10 ft/lbs more than the specs mostly to test the time sert and to Be totally positive that size would fully correct the issue i.e. not on the bubble


This is the size of the washer that allowed it to rotate freely. it looks like it is half the size of the spacer, but I think it is slightly less than that.

I would put a mark at the top of the spacer to identify the correct positioning so that the thick side/thinner side would be at a 45'/135' angle which appears to be the angle that the bolt hole is off from perpendicular. Hope that makes sense. I'm not the most eloquent writer.

additional washer on the left, OEM spacer on the right

 

Just remember, you'll need to hold the spacer in the right place while torqing to prevent spin. Maybe some permatex gasket maker allowed to fully cure overnight before you torque down?

 

I would need something to hold it in place and that would be perfect. When you torque it down, it does not create any rotational force on the spacer because the bracket can be held stationary while torquing. Wouldn't take much to hold it in place. And I could put a paint mark at top dead center of the spacer to confirm it stayed in place

edit: correction, it would have a little rotational force while torquing once it got tight because it is the bolt/shaft that contacts the spacer and not the bracket in order to allow free movement

 

Success finally!



it's hard to measure how close the pulley is now to perpendicular, but it has to be pretty damn close. The bracket definitely moves freely

 

Hell yeah!! Hoping the persistence pays off!

 

I think I may cut a hole at the top of the passenger timing belt cover at the pulley and put a solid plug grommet without a hole just so I can pop it out and easily inspect to confirm the timing belt is not walking.

Just for peace of mind since I can't measure the pulley angle to be sure it is perpendicular. But it is definitely much closer to perpendicular, and it was not far off before. This one is an inch and a quarter and should be perfect

 

Thanks man. You've always been a huge help along with shifty and several other folks on here that usually chime in on my threads

 

I've mostly been cheerleading, but you're welcome!

 

turns out I didn't need the permatex to hold the spacer in place. If you push the bracket up against the spacer, it held it in place.

I went back this morning, removed the bracket, used the stud and a square to make sure I had it in the most perpendicular position. And marked to help me align it when I reinstalled the bracket


It is very much closer to exactly perpendicular. As close as you can measure given the obstructions

Thanks again everyone. I'll be tied up for a couple of days but should be able to get it all put back together this weekend

 

I'm just in shock and awe milling that spacer/washer worked. But also, hell the fuck yeah!

 

Finally after three or four threads for various problems, the timing belt is done - all leaks corrected, timing belt Tensioner pulley fixed etc

Unfortunately I'll be starting one or two other threads about another issue or 2. Might be related to the new ecu

at least the timing belt is behind me. What a relief


Thanks guys

 

Good luck with your eye surgery man, see you on the flip

 

I just peeled back the passenger cover after around 175 miles and I can now say the timing belt is not walking. So hell the fuck yeah it worked!

And obviously before the timing belt was not as tight as it should've been because the tensioner pulley did not move freely

Before the big-sert and milling the spacer to make the tensioner pulley perpendicular and after just a few miles and about 15 minutes of idling, it looked like this:

most of these other problems are now resolved.

the rough and high idle (above 2100rom on cold idle and very slow to get to 1500 and then even slower to drop to 1000rpm's) were because I crossed up to vacuum hoses going to the power steering pump

still higher idle than it should be, but it is smooth and it's acceptable for now

one noise was the catalytic converter which had about a millimeter clearance from the crossmember. Muffler shop corrected that

other horrible noise was the front passenger tire scrubbing on the fender when in reverse. didn't come close before, but with the increased caster it moved the front tires forward and I had to do some trimming

thanks man. Surgery was successful now I can see light and moving objects. should get full vision back in that eye in a few weeks

 

Great to hear on all fronts man.

 

Just tossing this out there, but you may want to - if for nothing other than shits & giggles, unless you already have one - buy a regular, unmodified ECU from Flagship One. Just something to have on-hand, to use if you ever need to send your modified one back for reprogramming/fine-tuning, and for the sake of contrast/comparison (sanity check) for "is this normal?" - it would probably answer your idle question, whether it's got to do with the modified tuning.

Stoked all came out well, and something as stupid as shadetree milling of a spacer/washer solved the prob.

 

i've still got the original ecu. I did get the overland tuning on it, but it performed perfectly

good point though. I could test by swapping them out. It would eventually throw codes, but at least I could see if that was the source of the idle issue.

 

Yeah, sometimes tuning is trial and error. i.e. deleting out one thing will adversely impact others. Maybe nopping out the O2 sensors and/or overriding with static values is causing an unexpected idle?

 

I don't think it was this bad before the timing belt change. Although I could only test it briefly maybe 125 miles or so

and this guy's tune is supposedly specific for the headers as recommended by Keith at DirtyDeeds. so it is supposed to be a proven tune