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Rear axle seals/bearings.

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by bmf4069, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Feb 2, 2019 at 5:13 PM
    #1
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    I pulled the rear axles out today to be sent off and have new bearings pressed in and replace the tube seals. Overall not a bad job. Only took 4 beers. The pass rear was definitely the leaky one. It's now wonder my parking brake failed inspection. Let's look at some pics.


    Pass tire. You can see nasty coming from the inside of the wheel out.
    20190202_155106.jpg

    Rear axle. That e brake cable is loooose. I made sure I could get the full plug off before I drained the diff.
    20190202_155125.jpg

    Pass backing plate. Ewww.
    20190202_155135.jpg

    Drivers backing plate. Not as ewww.
    20190202_155146.jpg

    Diff plug magnet deposits.
    20190202_161833.jpg

    Pass inside wheel.
    20190202_162042.jpg

    Pass inside drum.
    20190202_162144.jpg

    Pass brake guts.
    20190202_162158.jpg

    I dug this out from the bottom of the backing plate.
    20190202_162334.jpg

    Pass backing plate.
    20190202_163518.jpg

    Shoe assy.
    20190202_165729.jpg

    Shoe assy bottom.
    20190202_165741.jpg

    Abs sensor covered in ewww.
    20190202_164800.jpg

    The empty tube.
    20190202_165641.jpg

    Axle assy.
    20190202_165707.jpg

    Pass brakes and axle.
    20190202_165722.jpg

    Pass brakes and axle.
    20190202_165659.jpg

    Axle seal.
    20190202_165812.jpg

    Ewww.
    20190202_165821.jpg

    Cleaned up.
    20190202_170945.jpg

    Drivers inside wheel. Definitely not as bad.
    20190202_171400.jpg

    This looks worse than the pass side.
    20190202_171405.jpg

    Drivers side. Better, yet worse.
    20190202_171412.jpg

    Drivers bottom.
    20190202_171417.jpg

    Wow.
    20190202_171425.jpg

    A little ewww.
    20190202_173933.jpg

    Definitely not as bad as the pass side.
    20190202_173938.jpg

    Driver side assy. All that shit on the table is from the shoe assy.
    20190202_175244.jpg

    All the things.
    20190202_175311.jpg

    Ewww.
    20190202_175302.jpg

    Tools used.
    20190202_175252.jpg

    "Get a good look, city boy?"
    20190202_175338.jpg

    Poor iron man. That's a spilled beer spot under the drivers door. Oops.
    20190202_175408.jpg


    So all in all not too bad. My diff fluid didn't smell bad at all, not like the stories I've read. Definitely save the wheel cylinders for last so you're not leaking DOT3 all over the place. I just put them back on to stop the dripping. I didn't have a (guessing) 23mm socket for the diff plugs, but a 15/16 worked fine. And a brake squeezy took for the shoe retainer springs would be nice. I forgot to get one. Took about 2 1/12 hours, once again, going slow, taking pics, etc. I'm gonna drop the axles and bearings off at the machine shop to have it all pressed back together. Should be next weekend I'll get em back in. Any questions, comments, concerns, or stories about the time you got drunk in Tijuana and fought a midget are welcome.



    Also, my lug nuts are different sizes so I'm ordering all new ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  2. Feb 2, 2019 at 5:30 PM
    #2
    landphil

    landphil Socially distant and prone to wandering.

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    Two suggestions. First, check the diff breather or just replace it. With both sides leaky, I'm suspicious of it being plugged up.

    Second, make sure whoever you have do the pressing knows that the ABS tone ring and the "retainer ring" that the axle seal runs on DO NOT get pressed on as far as they can be. The spec is show below, though measuring it accurately can be difficult. If they are pressed right up to the snap ring behind, the oil seal won't touch the ring and it will leak very badly. Don't ask how I learned this.:anonymous: :oops: And who told you about the midget?!
     
  3. Feb 2, 2019 at 5:49 PM
    #3
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    The breather was a bit crusty. I cleared it and rotated it a few weeks ago but still saw fresh seepage today. I'll just order a new one and look up the breather mod again.
     
  4. Feb 3, 2019 at 6:52 AM
    #4
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Good write up. Here are the parts I used for the breather extention. Bought some 3/8” fuel line (6’) at auto store and ran it up to behind the gas cap door.

    upload_2019-2-3_9-47-55.jpg

    upload_2019-2-3_9-48-53.jpg
     
    mcharfauros, 15whtrd and bmf4069 [OP] like this.
  5. Feb 3, 2019 at 9:17 AM
    #5
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Ordered new lug nuts, ebrake cables for inside the drums, a diff breather, and all new front brakes for a 13wl. Figured if I'm putting in all new rears may as well do the front.
     
  6. Feb 3, 2019 at 9:43 AM
    #6
    ifishinxs

    ifishinxs New Member

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    Very nice write up and photos..
     
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  7. Feb 3, 2019 at 3:56 PM
    #7
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Raise those nuts and your stopping power will be improved.


    upload_2019-2-3_18-54-59.jpg
     
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  8. Feb 5, 2019 at 4:51 AM
    #8
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Machine shop said $250 to clean and press on new bearings. I gave them the specs on the abs tone ring. Front brakes, diff breather, and new lug nuts will be here Thursday, ebrake cables say Monday. May put the old ones back in for now. @Professional Hand Model I think I'm gonna drive it and get the new brakes broke in, then adjust the rbpv. Just to give it a test.

    Question: how much play should be in the parking brake cable after the split in the rear?
     
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  9. Feb 5, 2019 at 7:41 AM
    #9
    lsaami

    lsaami Let ‘er buck

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    none. it should be pretty tight.
     
  10. Feb 5, 2019 at 7:51 AM
    #10
    mtntop

    mtntop New Member

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    great write up and what lsaami said, very little play in the e brake cable, tight enough for no slack but just enough so that a slight pull on the cable will begin to engage the e brake.
     
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  11. Feb 5, 2019 at 9:59 AM
    #11
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Well damn. I have about 2-3" of play in mine to the pass side.
     
  12. Feb 5, 2019 at 3:09 PM
    #12
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    There is a turn buckle under the driver side seat under the chasis that you can choke up the slack. I’ve had 2 different mechanics try to get my parking brake to work over the last 10 years and neither was successful. I tried recently and struck out, too.

    None of my rear drum internals have been replaced except for the drum shoes. Everything is still OEM, so maybe your rebuild will do the job. Maybe those short cables in the drum stretched with age?
     
  13. Feb 5, 2019 at 5:20 PM
    #13
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    They look like it. And the rubber coating wore off. I may have to get a new rear ebrake cable too. We'll see.
     
  14. Feb 7, 2019 at 11:05 AM
    #14
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Most of my parts are set to arrive today. So how should I go about removing and seating the new axle seals? And just 75w90 for diff juice? Non lsd. Do I need to pre oil anything before installation?
     
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  15. Feb 7, 2019 at 11:17 AM
    #15
    FirstGenVol

    FirstGenVol Allergic to Darkness....

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    I can't answer the first part but I used Royal Purple 75W90 in my rear diff. I think Fred recently mentioned 80W90 works well too.
     
  16. Feb 15, 2019 at 7:13 PM
    #16
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Finally got back out to work on it. In typical fashion shit went bad fast. Again. Let's take a peek, shall we?

    This is how bad the wind has been blowing lately. Gross.
    20190215_173230.jpg


    20190215_173230.jpg

    Rear axle seal pulled out.
    20190215_174350.jpg

    My seal installer.
    20190215_174457.jpg

    New seal installed. Notice the hole the axle needs to go in to seat in the diff. Be careful.
    20190215_175849.jpg

    Dont forget the o-ring!
    20190215_180142.jpg

    New bearings, tone rings, and collars pressed on. And a tad bit cleaner.
    20190215_180810.jpg

    They may have pressed the tone rings on too far....
    20190215_180816.jpg

    Axle and wheel cylinder installed.
    20190215_184314.jpg

    The new shoes.
    20190215_190820.jpg

    Also new shoes.
    20190215_190826.jpg

    And then this happened.
    20190215_192001.jpg


    20190215_201337.jpg


    20190215_201350.jpg


    So everything just started bad. The dirt didn't want to leave it's new home in the axle tube. Finally got it all cleaned out. Note to self, ziptie a ziploc bag on the end next time. Then I couldn't get the axle seal pulled out. It took a while and I bent my new seal puller getting it out. Pry on all sides and make sure the tip of the puller is on the inside lip of the seal. I used a 2" PVC coupling to get the seal in place. Just make sure you get it in evenly. I wasted a seal hitting it in crooked and had to pull it out.

    So with that debacle dealt with, I took the old wheel cylinder off and tried to put the axle in. Didn't go. Opened the book and read a bit. Gotta lube it up first. Ohhhhh. Lube it open and it goes right in. (Insert that's what she said here.) Put the new wheel cylinder, backing plate nuts, abs sensor, and ebarake cable bracket it.

    That's when the shit hit the fan. I pulled the new shoes out of the box and went to assemble everything. The kit I bought didn't have the adjuster or the 2 brackets with it. It's cool, I'll reuse em. Well, the bottom bracket didn't want to fit on the guide pin pressed into the shoe. So I tried to persuade it on and it just backed the pin out. It fit just fine on the old pin and I saw they come out easily enough so I tapped the old pin out and as I was tapping it into the new shoe it decided to snap the pad in half. I didn't hit the shoe, nor does the shoe sit below the metal backer. On top of that none of the other shoes even had that pin!

    In retrospect I'm glad it happened that way. I'd be even more pissed if I had gotten the first set together and buttoned up and it did it on the second pair. So I went to the drivers side and got the axle installed, new wheel cylinder, and abs sensor to close it up. Cleaned up and came in to update.

    DO NOT BUY THE CENTRIC KIT!!! Get the powerstop kit and buy separate wheel cylinders! I'm going to the supply house tomorrow to get a new set of shoes and will finish then.
     
  17. Feb 15, 2019 at 9:11 PM
    #17
    remington351

    remington351 New Member

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    I think your brake shoe mishap is a blessing in disguise. I think your machine shop screwed you on the bearing and retainer install. They did not follow your instructions and just pressed the tone ring and retainer till it stopped. At least that's how it looks. I suspect you will have an immediate re-leak of gear oil, or will in the very near future.

    Axle old3.jpg
    Axle3.jpg


    Youtube Timmy the Toolman has a great discussion of this starting at 19:32. Good luck.

    Edit: Also you can see the tone ring is in-line to just above the top of the studs upon removal. After machine shop you can see the tone ring is well below the top of the studs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVhSDnw2ugo
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  18. Feb 16, 2019 at 12:23 AM
    #18
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Well, thank you for reconfirming that everything I do is wrong. I even told them that is has specific heights. That's $250 in labor down the drain. Now I get to buy a new set for them to charge me again to press on wrong. Because it will happen again because I live in a shit fucking town with one machine shop with a big enough press to do the job. Or deal with some other fucking retards who dont give a fuck and just press away until it stops on the 100 ton press. I'm so fucking sick and tired of stupid God damn rednecks who work in these machine shops that we trust our engines to that cant press a fucking abs tone ring in right. And I'm supposed to leave my Japanese built 4.7 heads or 3.0 yamaha v6 engines with thes cousin fuckers? It's a fucking axle bearing. $250 dollars and it's still wrong. Yay my life.
     
  19. Feb 16, 2019 at 7:29 AM
    #19
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Bmf4069 never gives up. He learns from his mistakes keeps going till it gets done right. I like that.
     
  20. Feb 16, 2019 at 7:33 AM
    #20
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Good post Remington. I watched this vid a few months back when learning about the bearings install process. It made me not want to do it. Even ToyTimmy was getting stumped. All the removal and reinsertion and disassembly and repressing and reassy. I think it took the guy 2 days with 2 helpers.

    Who ever does this entire job on their own is a master mechanic for sure.
     
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  21. Feb 16, 2019 at 2:34 PM
    #21
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    You're damn right I dont give up. Just take a step back let it sit. It's not going anywhere. But I am tired of going to a machine shop and being treated like I dont know what I'm talking about and overpaying for the job to be done wrong. I'm about to go change my diff breather and refill it while its jacked up and put it in drive to see if it leaks. That way if it does I'm not ruining the brakes. If it does I'll just get a new axle seal/bearing kit and drop em of at Toyota that way it'll be on them to get em done right.
     
  22. Feb 16, 2019 at 6:51 PM
    #22
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Went and bought some new shoes from autozone and got back after it today. First I took the old diff breather out and threw the new one in. I tried blowing through and got nothing. So that's why the seals keep blowing. Put 3.5 qts in and put the truck in drive while I went and put the new shoes together. About 20-30 min later there was no diff juice leaking anywhere so I threw the new shoes on. Be sure the thread your adjuster all the way back in! It's a pain when your shoes and already back in. Threw the drums on and had my gf help me bleed the lines.

    So my problem now is the pedal is waaay to soft, and when I get down to 15 mph the abs pump kicks in. My abs light is not on, neither is the brake light. Maybe air got into the line and into the abs pump? I have the new shit for the fronts and can throw them on tomorrow and bleed the entire system I guess. Comments, thoughts, concerns, or story's about the time you Indian wrestled a one legged pirate are welcome.

    Duralast brakes come with the pins.
    20190216_171114.jpg

    The new hotness.
    20190216_172929.jpg

    Be sure to thread your adjuster all the way back in!
    20190216_172939.jpg

    All put back together.
    20190216_183024.jpg

    The bottom of all out back together.
    20190216_183031.jpg

    The top of all put back together.
    20190216_183040.jpg


    I didn't take any pics of after, but it was nothing special. Took it around the highway and did a few 60-0 panic stops and it sucked. But, there's no diff juice or brake juice leaking! And the abs light is off! So I may be ok. So until next time, same bat time, same bat channel.
     
  23. Mar 28, 2019 at 1:48 PM
    #23
    lsaami

    lsaami Let ‘er buck

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    One Question. Is the inner seal responsible for keeping the diff fluid inside the diff, or is that the outer seal? Are the wheel bearings lubricated by the gear oil, or is it a sealed system? I assume the inner is the one? I have fluid coming out one side and I'm trying to get together a parts list to tackle this. My wheel bearings aren't bad at this point, but if they have to come out I may as well replace them.
     
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  24. Mar 28, 2019 at 4:11 PM
    #24
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    I believe the rear collar behind the tone ring slides into the inner seal creating the seal. The abs tone ring is after the seal, but before the bearing so I imagine it doesnt want diff juice on it.
     
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  25. Mar 28, 2019 at 5:53 PM
    #25
    lsaami

    lsaami Let ‘er buck

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    Ugh. Sounds like a project then. Sounds like I may as well just rebuild the whole thing then.
     
  26. Mar 28, 2019 at 6:32 PM
    #26
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    Wouldnt hurt. If it's that far apart might as well. Cheap insurance. This is the kit I bought:

    Screenshot_20190328-202721_Chrome.jpg

    Then throw this in if needed.
    Screenshot_20190328-203058_Chrome.jpg


    Add about twofiddy in labor and you got a new rear end. Sort of.
     
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  27. Mar 28, 2019 at 7:42 PM
    #27
    JSM

    JSM New Member

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    Man sorry for your troubles but the paragraph was a good laugh. I totally understand your pain.
     
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  28. Mar 29, 2019 at 6:01 AM
    #28
    lsaami

    lsaami Let ‘er buck

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    Thanks! That’s essentially what I Phan on doing.

    I have an ABS truck. Does that mean I need a different kit? Or do I just reuse the ABS goodies?
     
  29. Mar 29, 2019 at 11:33 AM
    #29
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 [OP] Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    You can reuse the abs tone rings. I think that's all that differentiates the kits.
     
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  30. Mar 29, 2019 at 7:49 PM
    #30
    Aerindel

    Aerindel New Member

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    I have this same question.

    A few days ago I noticed my driver side brake was smoking and very hot to the touch (while the passenger side was cool) so I assumed I had a stuck brake cylinder.

    Ordered new cylinders drums, shoes and internals.

    Started taking it apart today and I see that its pretty greasy inside so I assume I have an axle seal leak. I also removed my breather and saw that it was completely plugged up. Couldn't blow through it so I cleaned it for now and am going to relocate later.

    Anyway, I don't want to pull the axle and have bearings pressed in and I don't think they need to be replaced anyway. Can I just replace the inner seal to stop the leaking?

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